Singapore PM To Earn Almost 2 Million Dollars - After Pay Cut

[visa]

I would have thought that it will be easier for any of our ministers to retire than to remain in offic. plus rather than losing benefits, I think they will actually gain more freedom and have a better quality of life. As a ministers with all the millions of dollar, what can they do? Can they buy a topless Ferrari drive down to Zouk and get pissed. can they go watch a rock concert and head bang with the crowd? Can they go down to sentosa to enjoy a bottle of champagne with a few bikini babes by the beach?

Ah, but now you are imposing your idea of what is quality of life onto others. What if the minister's idea of nice, quality living is being in charge? You'll often find that the people who are best at their jobs are those who enjoy it.

 

[THOA]

If that were true, then it doesn't make sense that the PAP dominate every single general election!

I wouldn't put the Voters in "political scene" category, actually.

My implication of that statement would be more to... I just wish the opposition party offer more solutions for the people rather than trying hard to go by the jugular and trying to put attention to the flaws of the government.

"The gahmen can take care of it". Aren't most if not all of us guilty of thinking this way? That's a huge expectation to put on the shoulders of the people on top and huge pressure to come with it.

The current government is not perfect. Some of the things they implement and enforce are just plain bullocks. We already know that. We, however, don't need the opposition to tell us that; the same old same old rants. We need problem solvers and solution producers, not finger pointers and blame stormers. We need the opposition to let us know what is THEIR solutions and proposition, and let us know it loud and clear.

Until that happens, voters will only look to the PAP as THE solution.

 

[guitarsan]

Guess who controls the media?

We need the opposition to let us know what is THEIR solutions and proposition, and let us know it loud and clear.

Yes, everyone knows that...AND the oppositions certainly know that too. The current crop of oppositions are in fact smarter, more educated, and much more capable than those of the previous generations. And they DO have their solution and proposition. That is IF you talk to them in person. And they DO want to make it loud and clear. That is IF they are given half the opportunity.

But guess who controls the media and the dissemination of information to the public? If the oppositions speak/write to the media, their views will not necessary be published or broadcasted, unlike the PAP. But even if they do, their opinions will be partially ommited or written in such a way that the public will construe them as ineffective, foolhardy, meaningless or weak. So sometimes the opposition tend to refrain from speaking their thoughts to the local media for fear of that outcome. Even information on the internet posted/hosted by the oppositions (which the PAP has lesser influence over) are heavily scrutinised - you know...just in case. And despite the already very limited media coverage, the oppositions are also not allowed to use the internet during their election campaigns....for obvious reasons.

PS: the above view on the local media is not from me, but from a certain late politician named JBJ whom I had a chance to talk briefly to when he was selling books at a sidewalk near a MRT station a few years ago.

 

[Whitestrat]

Lee Quan Yew plays an important role in the government , without him i doubt the PAP will be as strong . His presence is enough to turn heads and command the respect and attention of anyone around .

Too much emphasis on the old man is also dangerous. We should be looking forward. Not in the past. It doesn't mean we don't respect what he has achieved, but lets not let that go to our head, shall we?:mrgreen:

 

[Whitestrat]

"The gahmen can take care of it". Aren't most if not all of us guilty of thinking this way? That's a huge expectation to put on the shoulders of the people on top and huge pressure to come with it.

Alas, this is so true. So true, that many of us refuse to admit it. You want proof? Look at the current economic situation.

In HK, the public have vitrually frozen all spending efforts. and I mean ALL. Retail business there is at an all time low. Why? Because they are afraid. They have no safety net. No reassuring authority to come forward and ensure that something will be done in their best interests to ferry them through this crisis.

But in Singapore? Spending has dropped, yes. But not completely. There was a recent buying frenzy for cars! For the sake of a $2 COE which they will never get!!! Singaporeans live in the comfort that our Government will definately do something to save our wallets.

We have most certainly become extremely comfortable...

 

[Ized]

Which is why...i am saying what is going to happen after the old man is gone?

 

[Whitestrat]

PS: the above view on the local media is not from me, but from a certain late politician named JBJ whom I had a chance to talk briefly to when he was selling books at a sidewalk near a MRT station a few years ago.

JBJ... To me, there are some I would really take seriously as GOOD men who are sincerely interested in the growth of out nation. Chiam See Tong is such a person. This man is not. To do senseless things time and time again, knowing everytime his efforts will fail simply because he did not do his homework. This is not a man who's hands I would place my future in, much less listen and take what he says seriously. CST has done more for his constituency in a shorter time than JBJ has spent time in the courts. This is why the PAP continuously lose to this man in Potong Pasir. They aren't losing to a hack. This man is really working his nuts off for the benefit of that community.

If Singapore had more men like him, We'd have a more credible opposition, and a far more diversified government. Instead, who do we get? Chee Soon Juan. Low Thia Kiang. Wah lao... Men who either crumble under pressure, or do inconveivable acts of oddity. A hunger strike with sugared water? Please lah... Bluff who? Small kids ah? These men to me insult our intelligence.

Can you explain to me why JBJ is someone you would enamour and take seriously? Because I've never got it.

And those who think James Gomez is cool. Why? The man tried to make a MOCKERY of the elections office. That mocks YOUR right to vote. YOUR right to choose. I can think of no more dispicable an action!

 

[THOA]

But guess who controls the media and the dissemination of information to the public?

That is perhaps one of the biggest turn offs I have about the government. Perhaps it's one of the biggest for alot of us here.

There's too little transparency, too much control, too little avenues for freedom of speech and a looming fear of the mighty hands of power coming down to crush you if you say the "wrong" things. I think that's just BS.

And it is unfortunate that because of the media and the filtered flow of information, alot of the sub-government corporation have a tendency to assume that this is what the people want without really knowing half the time.

I can never trust the Singapore media. I like to always expand my resources for information beyond them. Unfortunately, this not a practice usually done by the most Singaporeans.

 

[Whitestrat]

Which is why...i am saying what is going to happen after the old man is gone?

Your question has 2 meanings. What will happen to the Govt capability once he is gone? or what will happen to the people's confidence when he is gone?

For the first answer, I believe he is hanging around as a figurehead, and as a face for people to identify. I don't think he's really hands-on when it comes to deciding policy. I think he's said many times that he would do things a little differently from his son if he was in power, but he is not. When he leaves, I think the current people in place would be capable enough to carry on his torch, and bring to Singapore what we are capable of achieving.

But this scenario also links to the 2nd part. Are the people placing their faith in the current govt because he's still around? I think partly yes. But this is what I say is dangerous. Both he and his son were raised in very different times, and both enjoyed very different education styles. What he did would most likely be suitable in the past, but I doubt it would be effective today. The son, has a more current feel of the situation, and I think is more suitable in dealing with today's issues with today's methods. However, the thing that some people lose focus on, is his team. I believe he has the RIGHT people with him who can deliver what is needed. And faith in his team is as important as faith in him.

I think when he is gone, we will NOT be in trouble, nor even in a weaker state. I believe he's left a strong team behind, who can bring us forward. If only we can stop looking at the past. Because this is what killed the Chinese Empire after 5,000 years.

Note: what I've just said is not fact, but strictly opinion.

 

[THOA]

CST has done more for his constituency in a shorter time than JBJ has spent time in the courts. This is why the PAP continuously lose to this man in Potong Pasir. They aren't losing to a hack. This man is really working his nuts off for the benefit of that community.

If Singapore had more men like him, We'd have a more credible opposition, and a far more diversified government. Instead, who do we get? Chee Soon Juan. Low Thia Kiang. Wah lao... Men who either crumble under pressure, or do inconveivable acts of oddity. A hunger strike with sugared water? Please lah... Bluff who? Small kids ah? These men to me insult our intelligence.

Hahaha. +1

If you know the media is gonna make you look stupid, don't do stupid things. Be smart about it, do something that the media will not be able to pin down and mock. Walking around with pickets, getting arrested and biting police officers are just avenues for making you look like a loser. You end up getting jailed, sued, or made to apologise on national television during the General Election campaign, when you are contending for a seat. Your credibility goes way down that way.

 

[Whitestrat]

There's too little transparency, too much control, too little avenues for freedom of speech and a looming fear of the mighty hands of power coming down to crush you if you say the "wrong" things. I think that's just BS.
.
.
I can never trust the Singapore media. I like to always expand my resources for information beyond them. Unfortunately, this not a practice usually done by the most Singaporeans.

I have 2 problems with your opinions here.

1. Can you define "wrong things"? Nothing that has been said that can be substantiated has been taken to task. It is things that CANNOT be substantiated that are usually taken to task. So, when you can prove what you say, you can say anything you like. The hands of power are powerless if you say things you CAN prove. Where's the fear? For all those who have been taken to task in the recent past, how many of them could see what they've said through?

E.g: If I were to call you a bastard, isn't it your right to come to me to seek compensation unless I can prove your parents were never married?

2. My time in the army exposed me to many documents. A small few cases of espionage, and some cases of intended malice by other countries through various acts. There is something no one remembers: In regards to countries, there are no friends or partners. Only common interests. Other than that there are no such things as a free helping hand. The foreign media are also not guiltless of being controlled to a certain extent by their governments. Media was the key element in Desert storm victories. Propaganda is a powerful tool. Hitler knew it. Hirohito knew it. Hell, if Genghis Khan had it, he's use it against the Chinese, and WIN! External media always will give you different aspects of the news. Is it completely objective? Most likely NOT. If you were to read LKY's memoirs, you'll come across a few times where seemingly good natured countries do things that seem nice and helpful to us, but are actually acts of malice against us. We've had politically instigated attacks and riots in the past. What makes you think times have changed? Methods have differed, but intents have not. There are parties out there who don't want us to succeed. Who don't want us to be the asian financial and technology hub. Who don't like our progress as a nation. And these parties might be more familiar than you think.

So, if you still think that the only guilty media in the market for information channeling is ours, then I'd urge you to look more closely at others.

 

[Whitestrat]

IMO, the Singapore political scene has too much anti-PAP instead of pro-Singapore.

I would agree with this statement, I think. But this has nothing to do with why the PAP are well represented in all elections, while others aren't. They're 2 different issues: Action, and Sentiment.

A lot of us are NATO. No Action, Talk Only. We grumble about they way things are. But no one has the time and can be bothered to band all these people together to form a credible action party to do something about it. Saying it's not your calling is like saying it's not my problem, and I'd rather let others deal with it. That's Tai-Chi. Something Singaporeans are fantastic at. If credible people were so hard to find, then why is the PAP so big? Also, if they were so easy to find, then why is it that there are still many CREDIBLE individuals in the commercial market that have rejected numerous offers from the PAP to join them?

But as for sentiments, everyone's entitled to their own. You're allowed to feel what you feel. By all means, many people are against the PAP not because they don't like the PAP, but rather, they cannot stand to see ONE party in domination. There are others who genuinely don't liek the PAP. and there are some who just follow the crowd, and say whatever it is cool to say then.

I think one should be mindful of what you wish to achieve by every action, and not do things for the sake of doing so. Saying that Singapore needs a more diversified opposition today is one thing. Voting one into the next election is another. I for one would like to see us safely through this bad economic patch. Bringing in a foreign power woudl disrupt whatever plans the current powers have in mind for us. This is not a good time to bite their hands.

 

[ymmak]

That's Tai-Chi. Something Singaporeans are fantastic at.

Tai-chi is so old-school. nowadays it is called arrowdynamic. I m sure anyone who serves NS will know first hand what it means. Haha.

Anyway, i am quite appalled that our PM is earning US$2m per year only. I expected more. IMO, i thought the debate of whether he is overpaid or what doesnt matter. Rather, we should be discussing issues such as "how come the town councils lose $12 million?" or "how come they have so much money yet my hdb lift still havent upgrade?". I think such discussions can help us better evaluate whether the ministers' salary is justifiable or not.

AND WHY MY POST COUNT GOT REDUCTION?

 

[Whitestrat]

Rather, we should be discussing issues such as "how come the town councils lose $12 million?"

I thought was $16M?

 

[THOA]

1. Can you define "wrong things"? Nothing that has been said that can be substantiated has been taken to task. It is things that CANNOT be substantiated that are usually taken to task. So, when you can prove what you say, you can say anything you like. The hands of power are powerless if you say things you CAN prove. Where's the fear? For all those who have been taken to task in the recent past, how many of them could see what they've said through?

I think the context of my statement has to do more with the hands of power than the accuracy of the "wrong" things, lol.

True, most of what has been said has not been substantiated, or at least the evidence to the statement rested on really shaky ground and in most times the weak spots has been swiftly uncovered and attacked.

But I think the backlash that comes with it disturbs me. Not only do most defamation suits are designed to render a person bankrupt, which effectively disallows the individual from engaging in political endeavors (which means one less challenge to the government), but also the media foray that comes with it, which takes on the side of ruling party at most times, makes it difficult to access whether there is justice and fairness in the undertaking.

For example: I remember an article on the media covering a defamation case between MM Lee vs Chee Soon Juan. In no way am I a supporter of Chee, but as I read the article, I couldn't help but notice that the MM made, IMHO, some rather personal and unbecoming statements towards Chee in court. And these are based on direct quotes by the MM as reported in the article. What makes it worse is that the article does not disguise the fact that it is trying to make Chee look like a complete clown; a blatant lack of objectivity.

So basically, it's not just the government that needs to be contended with in most cases. It is also the law and judicial system (that the government creates) and the media (that the government control) that can make a single statement made by an opinionated individual (whether it be true or not) be met with the wrath of a bombardment backlash.

Taking your example into this context: If you call me a bastard, I will retaliate. But I don't have the judicial system and the media in my arsenal. I don't think it would be right for me to bring that kind of army to shoot you down for that single statement either.

2. My time in the army exposed me to many documents. A small few cases of espionage, and some cases of intended malice by other countries through various acts. There is something no one remembers: In regards to countries, there are no friends or partners. Only common interests. Other than that there are no such things as a free helping hand. The foreign media are also not guiltless of being controlled to a certain extent by their governments. Media was the key element in Desert storm victories. Propaganda is a powerful tool. Hitler knew it. Hirohito knew it. Hell, if Genghis Khan had it, he's use it against the Chinese, and WIN! External media always will give you different aspects of the news. Is it completely objective? Most likely NOT. If you were to read LKY's memoirs, you'll come across a few times where seemingly good natured countries do things that seem nice and helpful to us, but are actually acts of malice against us. We've had politically instigated attacks and riots in the past. What makes you think times have changed? Methods have differed, but intents have not. There are parties out there who don't want us to succeed. Who don't want us to be the asian financial and technology hub. Who don't like our progress as a nation. And these parties might be more familiar than you think.

So, if you still think that the only guilty media in the market for information channeling is ours, then I'd urge you to look more closely at others.

I am fully aware that there is no true objectivity in ANY kind of media. But when there is plenty of angles to look at, it can certainly help to have a clearer picture of things, and come up with your own conclusion of the "truth".

Some information are best kept from the eyes of the masses. I agree to that statement and acknowledge the necessity. Yes, it keeps the peace and order and prevent wars. But when information that matters to us are also being kept in confidence, we have the right to question why we need to be kept in the dark. The Mas Selamat escape case is a good example. Information has leaked that Mas Selamat have probably escaped to Indonesia. But instead of telling us as it is, unnecessary time and money and energy were spent on trying to capture a fugitive that is no longer here, even when it becomes plain obvious to us that he is not here. As a Singaporean, I feel that my intelligence have been insulted.

 

[Whitestrat]

But I think the backlash that comes with it disturbs me. Not only do most defamation suits are designed to render a person bankrupt, which effectively disallows the individual from engaging in political endeavors (which means one less challenge to the government), but also the media foray that comes with it, which takes on the side of ruling party at most times, makes it difficult to access whether there is justice and fairness in the undertaking.

Defamation suits are not designed to render a person bankrupt. They are designed to extract suitable compensation for the defamed. If this little money is all they have, then yes, it will render them bankrupt. But, you think they're dumb? They would have channelled their assets and cash over to their spouses already before the case. Otherwise, they'd lose a lot more. You think TT Durai was really cashless at the end? I would have done the same thing if I were in their shoes. Protect my money especially if I knew I'm going to lose the case.

Consider this: You have built up a country and your own reputation. You have just been wrongly accused. Now, how much is your reputation worth? For me? Maybe not that much. But for Lee Kwan Yew? Where the reputation is a major contributor to your credibility and respect on a GLOBAL community? How much money does your reputation repair deserve after it's attacked?

For example: I remember an article on the media covering a defamation case between MM Lee vs Chee Soon Juan. In no way am I a supporter of Chee, but as I read the article, I couldn't help but notice that the MM made, IMHO, some rather personal and unbecoming statements towards Chee in court. And these are based on direct quotes by the MM as reported in the article. What makes it worse is that the article does not disguise the fact that it is trying to make Chee look like a complete clown; a blatant lack of objectivity.

Yep, I vaguely remember those comments too. But, if there was no truth in what was said, why didn't Chee Soon Juan turn the tables and counter sue MM?

So basically, it's not just the government that needs to be contended with in most cases. It is also the law and judicial system (that the government creates) and the media (that the government control) that can make a single statement made by an opinionated individual (whether it be true or not) be met with the wrath of a bombardment backlash.

In these cases, it was not a govt vs. opposition. It was LKY vs CSJ. It was a personal suit. Not a govt clamp down. Many people forget this simple but important bit.

Taking your example into this context: If you call me a bastard, I will retaliate. But I don't have the judicial system and the media in my arsenal. I don't think it would be right for me to bring that kind of army to shoot you down for that single statement either.

Why not? By calling you a bastard (hypothetically hor...) I'm not just insulting your pedigree, I'm also insulting the morals of your parents, the virtue of your mother, and the dignity of your father! If anyone did that to my parents, I'd burn their entire house down along with their families!. The use of the courts is something every citizen has a right to. The media picked up upon this simply because it was a juicy story. Remember TT Durai? Mrs Goh Chok Tong was not spared either! The media jumped on her careless statement and made it into a huge thing. Who says the media is controlled??? That's the SM's wife you're talking about!!!!

The Mas Selamat escape case is a good example. Information has leaked that Mas Selamat have probably escaped to Indonesia. But instead of telling us as it is, unnecessary time and money and energy were spent on trying to capture a fugitive that is no longer here, even when it becomes plain obvious to us that he is not here. As a Singaporean, I feel that my intelligence have been insulted.

Be careful what you're saying here. An information leak means there's OFFICIAL information that's surfacing into the public, just not by official means. As far as I know, Mas Selamat's presence escape to Indonesia is a RUMOUR. Not FACT. There are many rumours too! That he died in detention, and this was a ruse to appease the families. Or that he died in the jungles, and they're hunting for his body. Or that Mas Selamat does not exist, and that this was a big ploy to simply instill fear into the masses to maintain control from the highest authorities.

I personally don't know if he has or not, nor have I heard anything credible that confirmes or denys it. As far as MHA is concerned, they cannot comment as they have no proof of either too. What you call unnecessary time and energy is such only because you THINK they know he's escaped. They don't. And I would definately be more assured that there are troops deployed to ensure that he is hunted, and is not left to run amok around on the island, where he could become a severe risk to us all.

I urge you not to propogate anything you may have heard that isn't substantiated. This is how rumours begin, and how people get into trouble.

 

[GlypH]

rgding to the topic. in my opinion. i think the ministers' paychecks are justified. as they have indeed done their jobs quite well. and led singapore into further development which in turn benefits the country.in all these years.

 

[shinobi]

When they raised GST, the income tax was lowered. In fact, I remember reading that many Singaporeans DO NOT have to pay income tax.

i'm abit SLOW, but nvm, there is something interesting about this. income is taxed no matter how an individual chooses to use it. GST however taxes goods and services that he consumes. and all people consume roughly the same amount of basic necessities.

in simple layman's english, rich people don't eat 10 bowls of rice per meal because they are rich.

this is why the richer you get, the more you save (savings). on the other hand, the poorer you get, the more you will start digging out of your own savings (dissavings).

when the government paid growth dividends and gst bonuses, most singaporeans used it to offset their bills. this shows that singaporeans are consuming beyond what their income allows, and are in debt (car, mortgage, utilites etc)

the income tax system in singapore is progressive, if say it is cut across the board, then middle and high income earners will benefit.

however, an increase in GST will affect lower and middle income earners, because they would consume the same basic neccessities as high income earners do. GST taxes these basic neccessities.

another simple example, if everyone one needs $200 simply to survive, what does that $200 mean to someone who is poor compared to someone who is rich? the same dollar is valued differently by people of different income groups.

conclusion: rich people benefit
it so happens that: ministers are rich
ministers form the government
the government implemented this policy

rgding to the topic. in my opinion. i think the ministers' paychecks are justified. as they have indeed done their jobs quite well. and led singapore into further development which in turn benefits the country.in all these years.

why of course, i'm sure that someone else couldn't have done the same job for lesser pay, and i'm sure that if the same people that form the government today were not there, other people couldn't have done equally as good a job. and of course, everything that has been achieved by this country is the best possible outcome and is the fullest of our country's potential.

and most importantly, the success of this country is built single handedly by the GOVERNMENT, and not WE, THE PEOPLE, who finance everything the government does with taxes, no matter who we vote for during the elections.

since we like to regard our government as a profit making institution i.e. company, lets use a corporate analogy;

Q: if your boss gets fired, does your company collapse?
A: no. someone else will do his job.

could it have been worse if this were done differently? maybe. we don't know.

but it would be WRONG to say that it could NOT have been BETTER

 

[soft]

shinobi

Based on your $200 for basic necessities, both rich and not so rich will be taxed equally. That is right. BUT the rich will spend more because of their disposable income. They will not eat 10 bowls of noodle but will eat 1 bowl of noodle that cost 10 times more than a packet of instant noodle.

I do know of certain rich people who live their life frugally because they choose to. Likewise, if someone without much income choose to spend mindlessly, he/she should be tax.

Regarding the Boss/Company example, would a company keep a CEO who is not helping the company progress/profit? That would be pretty strange, wouldn't you say?

 

[Weiht]

Its alot of money wat our leaders are paid, but i guess they have been doing a GREAT job so far. If u travel and live abroad abit, then you will noe how fortunate and sheltered we singaporeans are due to the fact that we are living in a safe and cohesive place.

The rich dont get much more favoured for their $$$, and the poorer folks dont get repressed as much. Business and social risks are also extremely low, not to mention crime. There are some places overseas that even locals there know they shld avoid at night, but in singapore its much much safer.

So, they are running it well and keeping the PEACE, so i guess its worth paying them for it considering wat the WALL ST ceos are getting and the mess they gotten the world into.

There are alot of things we can say can improve and should improve, but its always easier to comment and maybe we shld be contended for once that we dont experience wat is going on amongst our neighbouring countries and in india now.