Singapore PM To Earn Almost 2 Million Dollars - After Pay Cut
- Thread starter Tribalcast
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Aye, I noticed, but have you noticed we have all other sorts of umm, interesting taxes? ERP definitely costs WAY more than the highway tolls they pay. There is a 200% flat tax on cars excluding COE. 200% tax on alcohol. I have yet to compile everything together but hey, it's probably about the same.
indianstallion
New member
Yeah I only wonder what happened to all the guards on duty when it occurred. I wouldn't wanna be in their shoes sia, I think most of them probably still aren't able to sleep properly since that day. If they are not in jail already.
Ha yes I am sure it will drop, if his KPI was "0 escapes from prison by suspected terrorists for 2008"
THOA
New member
I never said it was justified. Then again, in the context of society itself, no matter where you go, power is privilege.
But this kind of power is also given. So if the government has shown injustice to the people, it is the people that makes the decisive step to change the power. We seen it frequently in other countries, by ballot or bullet or both. If there is enough unhappiness amongst Singaporean to make change happen, it will happen. But so far, seems like Singaporeans are pretty much content with the leadership, or are too afraid to loose their own privilege. We live with no change for the past few decades because collectively we practically chose to carry on with the way things are. We GAVE the government that power. So live with it.
And really, so what if the US president is paid $400, 000 a year. That's looking it at the micro perspective. Remember, he is also currently the decisive voice in almost every major global action that occurs in this world, no matter how f*cked up his brain may be. So in this context, he has more "wealth" than our ministers put together. So...
1) Do you think that is justified?
2) The rest of the word is dependent on US, so does the rest of the world owe US a living?
Whatever the answers that can be concluded from my questions, that would be my answer to your questions.
tim098
New member
how do we prevent people from taking money under the table?
we give it to them legally!
Well said, visa. Well said
visa
New member
On Taxation:
In other countries, as Anirudh mentioned, income tax is far higher than in Singapore. Why is that?
Remember, income tax is only paid to the government if you are an earning an income. Unemployed people don't have to pay income tax.
Singapore doesn't want that. It's inefficient. Also, high income tax discourages high-income earners from coming into Singapore and making it their home.
So where does Singapore get it's tax revenue? GST! Everybody, rich or poor, has no choice but to buy goods and services. We all have to eat. By raising GST, Singapore ensures that it gets a steady stream of tax income, regardless of how much its citizens earn. In the case of an economic crisis, for example, revenue from income tax will drop significantly more than revenue from GST- cause we all still gotta eat, employed or unemployed!
In other countries, as Anirudh mentioned, income tax is far higher than in Singapore. Why is that?
Remember, income tax is only paid to the government if you are an earning an income. Unemployed people don't have to pay income tax.
Singapore doesn't want that. It's inefficient. Also, high income tax discourages high-income earners from coming into Singapore and making it their home.
So where does Singapore get it's tax revenue? GST! Everybody, rich or poor, has no choice but to buy goods and services. We all have to eat. By raising GST, Singapore ensures that it gets a steady stream of tax income, regardless of how much its citizens earn. In the case of an economic crisis, for example, revenue from income tax will drop significantly more than revenue from GST- cause we all still gotta eat, employed or unemployed!
visa
New member
On Dependency:
First of all- Are we dependent on our government? It's an interesting question.
How do you define dependency? I don't think any country in today's modern world is capable of functioning WITHOUT a government. A government is fundamental to the running of a country.
I don't believe that, for example, Singaporeans are more dependent on the Singaporean Government than Americans are dependent on the American Government, or North Koreans are dependent on Mr. Kim.
Governments are institutions of civil service- their PURPOSE is to serve the public, by making life better for everyone through effective policies and administration.
Some governments function better than others, but it remains a fact that if you remove a country's government, there will be anarchy.
First of all- Are we dependent on our government? It's an interesting question.
How do you define dependency? I don't think any country in today's modern world is capable of functioning WITHOUT a government. A government is fundamental to the running of a country.
I don't believe that, for example, Singaporeans are more dependent on the Singaporean Government than Americans are dependent on the American Government, or North Koreans are dependent on Mr. Kim.
Governments are institutions of civil service- their PURPOSE is to serve the public, by making life better for everyone through effective policies and administration.
Some governments function better than others, but it remains a fact that if you remove a country's government, there will be anarchy.
visa
New member
On Minister Salaries:
Has anybody here ever read Animal Farm, by George Orwell?
It's a book about a farm that decides to overthrow the humans, and do things on their own. The revolution is led by the pigs, who are the most intelligent. Everybody plays their part and all is good. All animals are equal.
The pigs subsequently realise that they are able to take advantage of the other animals' trust and lack of intelligence. They begin by taking a larger share of apples than the other animals, claiming that since they're doing the important thinking, they need more brain fuel.
This subsequently extends to all sorts of ridiculous privileges, at the expense of the rest of the poor farm animals. The pigs slowly and surely take control of the farm, becoming slave rulers over the innocent and gullible animals who think that their government wants the best for them.
It's a sad and frightening story about how, even with the best intentions, power corrupts.
Has anybody here ever read Animal Farm, by George Orwell?
It's a book about a farm that decides to overthrow the humans, and do things on their own. The revolution is led by the pigs, who are the most intelligent. Everybody plays their part and all is good. All animals are equal.
The pigs subsequently realise that they are able to take advantage of the other animals' trust and lack of intelligence. They begin by taking a larger share of apples than the other animals, claiming that since they're doing the important thinking, they need more brain fuel.
This subsequently extends to all sorts of ridiculous privileges, at the expense of the rest of the poor farm animals. The pigs slowly and surely take control of the farm, becoming slave rulers over the innocent and gullible animals who think that their government wants the best for them.
It's a sad and frightening story about how, even with the best intentions, power corrupts.
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THOA
New member
That is very true. Governance creates peace and order as much as it creates oppression and unhappiness. Multiple facets that have to be considered before making a judgment as to say whether a government is good or bad.
Perhaps what I mean by the difference between dependency between the people in US to their government than the people in Singapore basically ties in with the level of development between the two countries.
The US is bigger in multiple ways: bigger country, bigger buying power, bigger influence. Heck, it's the biggest economy in the globe. It made a momentum for itself in which it has its own self sustaining power to have its economic powerhouses run with little government involvement and aid (until recently, that is). It doesn't need the government to seek out foreign investment and talents for example; foreign investment and talents come to THEM instead. This came about after years of development, industrialization and wars (yes, war is a business). They are also sustained by their own internal market. US corporation sell products to their own people who would buy them. If you factor in their global reach, that market spills beyond their shores.
Singapore however, is young and yet to reach a healthy mature state. Because of our size, we are just unable to sustain ourselves economically with our own people. We are still dependent on external influences, and for that to happen we have products to sell to other countries. By "products", it doesn't necessarily have to be equivalent to something bought off the shelf eg palm oil. Instead, tourism is our product. Manufacturing is our product. Trading is our product. And for those to sell overseas, we need the government to sell Singapore.
And with the standard of living in Singapore... as compared to a lot of countries that are even older than us, we're definitely better off. Almost everything is streamlined and put to system, which we have to admit makes things pretty easy for most of us. Are we the ones who made sure this happens? Like it or not, we have to admit that all this is done by the government.
Am I one of those pro-government/pro PAP chaps? Hell no. Does this justify the amount they are getting? It's debatable. But does that mean we can do without them? No, we simply cannot survive.
However, a point being brought up by Visa about the pigs on the Animal Farm goes to show that if change is what we are REALLY after, it would sooner or later be done. It is then up to us on whether or not we are the ones who are gonna get the change to happen. If we are not happy with the government having million dollar salaries, change the government. If we really want to, you know we can. Who is stopping us really but ourselves?
Of course, after that, the cycle starts all over again...
dir
New member
The ruling class makes the rules simply because they can. The illusion of dependence is far too strong, such that the working class believe they have no power over their government. It's not hard to see why this is unfair, but 'em proles are simply not empowered or motivated to do anything....yet?
visa
New member
I get you! The very fact that our city state exists in the world despite our lack of size and resources, is something special to begin with. It's the product of an extremely delicate balancing act. I think we often take that for granted.
visa
New member
However, I think in the quest to make Singapore an economic powerhouse, we somehow overlooked the more human side. We can encourage businesses with policies, but campaigns don't really help much with courtesy or family sizes. I think we've grown to become an indifferent society, and we put ourselves before others. We developed such an attitude over the past 20 years or so because it was vital for survival. But unfortunately, it made the atmosphere tense, sterile, uncomfortable.
Singapore suffers from a massive drain of it's best talent in ALL fields- and this definitely affects our potential leaders as well. Alot of people who want to care about the country- the people who actually CAN make a difference and choose to have more children because they lead happier, more fulfilling lives... tend to get disillusioned, and migrate.
I think that as our culture changes, especially with this generation, we will see a re-emerging interest in the community and in the country, and we will have better leadership that is motivated by more than just the money.
Singapore suffers from a massive drain of it's best talent in ALL fields- and this definitely affects our potential leaders as well. Alot of people who want to care about the country- the people who actually CAN make a difference and choose to have more children because they lead happier, more fulfilling lives... tend to get disillusioned, and migrate.
I think that as our culture changes, especially with this generation, we will see a re-emerging interest in the community and in the country, and we will have better leadership that is motivated by more than just the money.
Anirudh
New member
ohh troo that. i forgot to take those into consideration. Booze and cars here are indeed cheap
shinobi
New member
screw singaporeans lah. there is no logic in saying that paying ministers large salaries will prevent them from being corrupt.
the truth is, paying CORRUPT ministers large salaries will prevent them from doing corruption.
in reality, ministers are ELITES. why? because they are government scholars. if you are 30 years old or younger and NOT a government scholar, what are the chances of you becoming a cabinet minister? forget about it.
during lee hsien loong's generation it was a trend of SAF generals becoming high profile ministers (because he himself was a SAF general).
not only are ministers elites, but so are their elite spouses and elite white horse kids.
however i do qualify myself, and there are some ministers that i actually like, namely khaw boon wan, lim swee say, tharman shanmugaratnam and lily neo (hope i got their names right!)
but let us not give a shit about ministers for a moment.
the government is afraid of one thing: singaporeans leaving.
'brain drain' is a pack of lies, because it is obvious that talent can be imported. the reason why the government is so afraid of people migrating is because once people are rational and start considering migration for their own benefit, they will lose control over the people.
once the people are indebted to the government, they are in government's pocket. things like housing loans and CPF ensure this.
better opportunities lie elsewhere for some people. it would be a lie to say that NOBODY will gain from leaving singapore.
but currently i see a big bunch of whiners who will not take action. i don't expect everyone to pack up and leave, but it doesn't occur to me that people are actually enlightening themselves to the possibility.
singapore government merely does what a government will do, and they do it damn well. however, it is not always in the best interests of the people. tell me how 2 million a year in salaries benefits us.
the truth is, paying CORRUPT ministers large salaries will prevent them from doing corruption.
in reality, ministers are ELITES. why? because they are government scholars. if you are 30 years old or younger and NOT a government scholar, what are the chances of you becoming a cabinet minister? forget about it.
during lee hsien loong's generation it was a trend of SAF generals becoming high profile ministers (because he himself was a SAF general).
not only are ministers elites, but so are their elite spouses and elite white horse kids.
however i do qualify myself, and there are some ministers that i actually like, namely khaw boon wan, lim swee say, tharman shanmugaratnam and lily neo (hope i got their names right!)
but let us not give a shit about ministers for a moment.
the government is afraid of one thing: singaporeans leaving.
'brain drain' is a pack of lies, because it is obvious that talent can be imported. the reason why the government is so afraid of people migrating is because once people are rational and start considering migration for their own benefit, they will lose control over the people.
once the people are indebted to the government, they are in government's pocket. things like housing loans and CPF ensure this.
better opportunities lie elsewhere for some people. it would be a lie to say that NOBODY will gain from leaving singapore.
but currently i see a big bunch of whiners who will not take action. i don't expect everyone to pack up and leave, but it doesn't occur to me that people are actually enlightening themselves to the possibility.
singapore government merely does what a government will do, and they do it damn well. however, it is not always in the best interests of the people. tell me how 2 million a year in salaries benefits us.
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Really? I can't remember the last time i ever voted in my constituency. There is no opposition there in the first place either. I guess you would have to research Singapore's last few decades a bit more carefully before u make such claims.
In what ways do we depend on the US? I can't conclude anything from your questions, it only begs further questioning.
super_punk
New member
Sorry braww....don't mean to be a spoil sport but i'm not exactly a subscriber of GST taxation being a fair way of taxation (if there is such a thing). Any good economist will tell you that GST taxation is a regressive taxation. Simply put, it taxes the poor more than it taxes the rich. I found it hard to understand initially but just imagine this, alright. You put a tax for 5% on toilet paper, no matter how poor or how rich you are you're probably gonna use the same amount of toilet paper. BUT, the poor person has a lower income, so essentially a greater proportion of his income is being taken away because he needs the paper so his asshole is clean. On the other hand, the rich guy needs his asshole as clean as the poor guy, but that 5% GST is less the proportion of his income than the poor guy. Same thing with virtually any good or service, as long as there is GST the poor guy is gonna have a bigger chunk of his salary taken away compared to the rich guy standing in line behind him at the cashier.
Anyway, my point is, GST is a good way for the government to get immediate revenue, no doubt. But in terms of being a fair and progressive way of taxation, perhaps not. But then again, who decides what's fair?
Also, we shouldn't be hasty to compare how much PM Lee makes VS El Presidente Americanos. Mr Dubya, and eventually Obama Mgawa Hendarto, make an official 400000, but they have people on their unofficial payroll called lobbyists. Just imagine PM Lee getting 400000, but Cold Storage pays him 200000 so they get tax breaks, then Esso goes in with 500000 for tariff rebates on oil shipments, then Apple comes in with 600000 for discounts on electronic goods, then Giant with 700000 for the Pm to tell Cold Storag to piss off. Before you know it he's making more than 3 mil. And at that point, you have to wonder, does he care about the people who pay him 400000 or the companies that pay him a shitload more?
I'm not saying that I'm a supporter of high wages for our "ministers", but sometimes we should look at the monsters behind some stats.
hmm... why so high pay? Cos it is a tough job handling Singaporeans! We have come to a point where we expect everything to be top notch. So, we have to get the best "CEO".
The amount they spent on http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/ can pay our PM a few hundred years!
When they raised GST, the income tax was lowered. In fact, I remember reading that many Singaporeans DO NOT have to pay income tax.
The amount they spent on http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/ can pay our PM a few hundred years!
When they raised GST, the income tax was lowered. In fact, I remember reading that many Singaporeans DO NOT have to pay income tax.
paganified
New member
-disclosed-
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