Life After Lee

[visa]

Most Singaporeans don't know how to think for themselves and will trust their friends words more than their own careful observation.

You say it like it's a basic truth which cannot be changed! I'd argue that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy- you don't trust people to think or make decisions for themselves, and so you don't allow them to do it. They grow up not having to, so naturally they won't be able to when the time comes for it.

If you can't stand the political climate, I believe you probably would have the intelligence and foresight to get yourself well educated enough to leave the country.

Or you might choose to stick around and wait for an opportunity to do something about it.

WHAT BRAIN DRAIN? The Singapore Government does an excellent job of courting foreign professionals.

That's like saying a boat isn't leaking if you keep bailing the water out. =\

 

[empihsrow]

FYI, Singapore is no where near totalitarian...

...Its not that singaporeans dont know how to think for themselves. Its just that politics are for people who have too much time...

...We are simply too busy playing our guitars or earning money to care about this. We would rather channel our intellectual ability in to something more productive than the local political scene...

Singapore exists as a democratic country. That's sure. But the system we are in is a special form of democracy. It's an authoritarian democracy we live in.

The lack of opposition is almost equal to totalitarian, by the way.

Politics for people with too much time? They're probably the most important people in the country running every thing! Is that statement supposed to undermine them or what?

And that's the problem. There is too much political apathy among the people. People rather not talk about politics. They rather not do anything about it. And that's the result of the lack of political growth our government has incurred.

So, politics have become a problem of people with loads of time? :/

 

[bobby]

FYI, Singapore is no where near totalitarian.

Its not that singaporeans dont know how to think for themselves. Its just that politics are for people who have too much time, and most Singaporeans are busy with everyday life and work. Generally, if we got food to eat, got roof over our heads, and we can play our guitars, we wont really care if the prime minister is getting a $23147646613481237461892 salary or if 10 generations of prime ministers have the same surname.
We are simply too busy playing our guitars or earning money to care about this. We would rather channel our intellectual ability in to something more productive than the local political scene.

It is usually the ones who have too much time who are complaining about the system oh wait in fact they complain about everything under the sky

That is utter nonsense.

So you're saying the people of Australia, England, France, Germany, The United States, Greece, etc are all very free and idle people therefore they care about who rules their country? Nonsense. On the contrary, they want to be free to lead their lives with as minimal hassle as possible, THAT IS WHY they care about who rules the country.

This thread isn't even about anyone's gripes with the government. So please, stop reading the word 'politics' and immediately go into a bombardment. Read the disclaimer before you whine.

 

[EngelFaeuste]

I'd argue that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy- you don't trust people to think or make decisions for themselves, and so you don't allow them to do it.

Not really, when the USA kicked the UK off American soil, the Brits never let the Americans make their own decisions.

Or you might choose to stick around and wait for an opportunity to do something about it.

True that, I'm just a lazy bastard who doesn't want to work to change that.

That's like saying a boat isn't leaking if you keep bailing the water out. =\

HAHA, funny analogy Visa, I like it. Well not really, it's kinda like saying that it doesn't matter since the boat ain't sinking.

 

[hifi_killer]

Empirical evidence suggest that Asians work more than Europeans and hence there is enough support to show that they are more free. Empirical evidence also suggest the link between cognitive load and apathy. If you're always mentally occupied , all else is secondary. As such having too much free time enables people to think about stuff that is not of primary importance such as politics. I define stuff of primary importance as the goal of self-preservation, that is to make a living, to have a shelter and adequate food. And so too much free time can facilitate concern for who rules the country, but of course there are other reasons as well. But it Singapore i believe people who complain regularly are usually the ones who have too much free time

empihsrow: Politicians are the powerful group of people in Singapore.. are they? I dont think so.. In Singapore political entities do not hold as much power in pragmatic sense as commercial entities.. MNCs in Singapore have more power in influencing our society and lifestyles than the government. Losing our jobs is more painful than anything the govt could throw at us Thats is why our policies are geared towards accommodating trade, foreign investments.

I see totalitarianism is a top down thing.. as in the govt imposes restrictions from top down. If the lack of opposition is due to such restrictions, yes maybe that totalitarism, but if the lack of opposition is due the lack of motivation of the people, then thats a different thing.

bobby : the countries you've examine they're western individualistic societies, as such it is meaningless to compare to an Asian society, and yes i understood that disclaimer, i'm just responding to the previous post, in the same way you are responding me.

 

[tim098]

You know given Singapore's geological location and many other factors, it was, in some study, proven that almost for sure, Singapore would have ended up generally the way we have, and that our rulers are not that big a factor.

I am not saying LKY or any of the pioneers are mere white elephants, I acknowledge and respect their intelligence for being the ones to lead Singapore to what we are today. But I also don't believe in saying that without LKY, Singapore would be nothing. Not sure if this isn't off topic but yeah.

 

[visa]

EngelFauste:

Not really, when the USA kicked the UK off American soil, the Brits never let the Americans make their own decisions.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here- that the British continued to make decisions for Americans after the Americans declared independence? I'm not too familiar with American history so you'll have to forgive me =\

it's kinda like saying that it doesn't matter since the boat ain't sinking.

But it does matter, because there is something fundamentally and structurally wrong with your boat!

Here's another analogy- you're a heavy smoker and you frequently empty out your wallet to buy cigarettes. But you tell yourself that your financial situation is A-OK, because you've got a part-time job that puts money back into your wallet.

But the fact is that your part-time job is nowhere near as permanent as your cigarette addiction. You could get fired tomorrow, but you're not going to quit smoking anytime soon. You might be surviving for now, but you are seriously not in a good position.

Similarly, any odd reason could stop foreigners from coming to Singapore, perhaps when China and India become more desirable in a decade's time. But it will be far harder to stop disgruntled Singaporeans from leaving.

So while we might be surviving for now, we are seriously not in a good position to be in.

 

[EngelFaeuste]

=Visa

The Americans fought a nice long war of independence, kicked the Brits home and drafted the Declaration of Independence. They simply didn't like the haughty bums over at whitehall telling them what to do and what not to do.

Well yes, there is something wrong with the boat, but I don't see myself in a position to stop it. Especially with the apathy of my countrymen...