James: I did notice that we have moderators recently. However the moderators aren't exactly, moderating? Of course, there are some forums with abusive moderators who throw bans around as they like it. However, moderation is helpful towards promoting a certain culture.
the3rdlogic brought up the point: "So to all the noobs reading this, do your homework. As the right questions, which simply means, include the details of your current problem. Don't ask for opinions. Ask for facts. Instead of asking, "which is better? A crunchbox or a ds-1", tell people the genre of music you’re playing, your budget, and your current playing proficiency and then ask, which pedal do people think would be most suited for you and WHY. But before you even do that, search on soft, at least, if there's any such question already asked."
The question is, how do we promote this? It is a difficult question, one which I do not know for certain the answer. However, as it is, I do know that doing nothing promotes more of such threads. I do not propose an outright ban on anyone that posts such a thread, but measures can be taken. I have noticed about a year back, James begun posting on threads where people posted unhelpful titles like "HELP ME PLS" and kindly asked them to change the title, or not to type in all caps. If we had a handful of moderators who keeps watch and remind new users to the guidelines in the forum, we discourage such threads from appearing. I do not know how helpful it will be, but I believe it to be a step forward. Maybe someone will come up with a better idea, or take reference or advice from other well run forums.
Blodstyre: "Every forum will always have their fair share of netidiots and whatnots. Trying to change this forum to nothing but "intelligent" arguments and debates is like asking Singapore to abolish the NS system."
If you accept the culture as unchangeable, then it will remain so. On other forums, I have experienced other forms of cultures and I believe them to be a result of guidelines and moderation. Perhaps I am mistaken, but not trying means no change.
"I also noticed that this thread failed to address the other end of the spectrum of the so-called "noobs and/or netidiots". What I mean are the "High and Mighty. Holier than Thou" users."
Let us address it now then shall we. I did not read any post which gave me this feeling, hence I shall dissect my own post, assuming that I am one such person.
Yay, I enjoy an intelligent discussion, it's something rarely experienced here.
This sentence, I agree may seem somewhat high and mighty. I do enjoy an intelligent discussion though.
Kym:
"What I feel is that Soft has grown in numbers exponentially since it first started. As more netizens join, there will be more ads, more questions and posts. It is about probability: if there is more posts, chances of encountering a stupid of unintelligent post will also be higher, no?"
Correct. And this is a problem faced by many, many forums all over the world. There have been solutions implemented, some not so successful, and yet others which have been very successful. Soft tends to rest on it's laurels and hope things turn out ok.
"Personally, you cannot expect everyone on Soft to ask intelligent questions. Soft is an open forum, not exclusively for veteran players only. Some members are less experienced hence they need more guidance and answers. Once in a while, they asked some stupid or rhetoric questions, but should we discourage others to ask questions because of this?"
I never diss "stupid" questions. Understandably, everyone is a beginner once. However, when I mention unintelligence, I am referring to the discussion. Consider the following:
Questioner: "wHat is the best amp?!?!? Help me plsssssssss!!!!"
Nice guy: "Maybe you could state what kind of amp you're looking for? Practice? Budget? What kind of music?"
Retard 1: "Get a Marshall MG15 dude, trust me it's the best amp"
Retard 2: "Hi we have stock of MG15, thanks"
Retard 3: "Get a DS1, my 2 cents"
Nice guy: "Erm, the DS1 is a pedal, why would you recommend that as an amp?"
Retard 2: "Hi we have stock of DS1, thanks"
Retard 3: "It works for me"
Questioner: "Hiii dudes tanks for your helpz, i bot the DS1, how come deres' no sound when i plug my guitar in??????"
Nice guy to himself: "Why do I bother."
Think this is an exaggeration? Look back, it happens a lot more than you might think.
"Anyway, just out of curiosity. Why is it that you claim the way that Soft forum runs dissuades intelligent questions and rewards stupidity and spam?"
Intelligent discussions actually. Soft does not run on moderators. Any society's culture is largely influenced by people who control the power. In a forum, they are the moderators. Be they good or bad moderators, these are the guys who will influence the culture, be in a conducive or lackluster one. However, in the absence of moderation, all we have is chaos. In chaos, it is always the loudest, most obnoxious and the majority that dedicates the culture. Any intelligent post, written after a well thought process taking maybe 15 mins, is quickly covered by 2 pages of posts with insults and banter from people not having even read the posts properly.
Here's an example right from this thread itself (nothing personal eugene):
"To be honest I don't understand much of the TS's rant. I can only gather that he's upset about young guitarists having good gear, and more obviously, young guitarists posting here asking for advise and/or help."
As pointed out by shredcow later on, Eugene has obviously not read the posts thoroughly and decided to post his 2 cents on a completely separate issue. Not that I blame Eugene. This has been the culture of Soft for a while, and any new user will immediately incorporate that attitude into his own posts. The thread starter may have opened 2 subjects in his first post, but quickly corrected in his 2nd post what the main point he is actually bringing up for discussion.
Our dear thread starter now looks at all the posts in his thread. Less than half of them are addressing his point. Should he spend another 15mins typing out a cleanly written post? Or should he just shrug his shoulders and have some kopi.
Here I am trying to address the questions raised by Kym. I am sharing my knowledge from my experience. I'm not sure if there is a way to share a lot of knowledge in a way that does not show that I am confident of my knowledge.
Maybe I should clarify what I mean by an intelligent discussion. To me, an intelligent discussion is one where every poster, before posting, reads every post before himself thoroughly and takes the words spoken into account. Then posts his views whilst addressing the words spoken before himself.
Most of the threads resemble the "whats the best amp" example I provided earlier. Where the poster asks a question, then everyone throws in his 2 cents. Meanwhile the poster skims through and ignores half the posts and makes his own decision.
The solution? Moderation. This is a giant subject with debates over banning rules, empowerment and such, but moderation is a step forward. However to my observation, James prefers to have no moderators, hoping everyone "just gets along".
I ended the post with a suggestion on what I feel is a step forward. Again, I am fairly confident of this suggestion and thus worded it as such.
In reverse, I actually feel that the holier than thou people are those who refuse to expand on their claims that MARSHALL IS THE BEST AMP EVER when asked for further details, replying with ITS MY OPINION, MY 2 CENTS, IT WORKS FOR ME.
"Do not try to deny that most of these so called "intelligent comments" just exhudes the feeling of "I am better so my Judgement is the only one you should bother to listen to. The proof my of all-intelligent and only right advise is the use of my perfect english and its grammar""
I don't believe I have used a tone of voice where I show that my judgment is the best. I share my experience and provide suggestions as a form of giving back to the community (cue flamers "WE NEVER ASK FOR YOUR HELP, F*CK OFF PLS"). What is detrimental to a forum is not the state of the english. There are forums with mexican and french members who cannot post in good english, but they [bold]try[/bold]. The problem is posts where people do not bother to try at all. They type VERYF FAASKST AND DUDN LOOK AT WHATSP BEI NG TYEPED THEN THE Y QUIDREKCLY HIT SBIUBMIT. Or stuff like that, I believed I have already covered earlier.
When people start reading posts thoroughly and post thoughtfully, I believe the level of discussions will be raised. Whether that is the goal, or the goal is to have this semi chat room, semi discussion forum, I don't know, and thus have not said anything in the past. This is brought up as an address to the thread starter's question as to why things have changed, not because I am showing off that I can type long posts. If I didn't care, I could be spending this 20 minutes playing dota instead.
