Standard of music , is it going down the drain?

[DoubleBlade]

Wow I never expected a truckload of comments and opinions to start pouring in!

The question is what needs to be to the local music in terms of standard wish is indeed a very tricky question.

You limit the genre of music to be performed to a handful deemed to be public performance , it ultimately defeats the purpose of having a local music scene because its music after all. Its just like censorship. This in turn will force more underground gigs to happen and of course hatred brewing from the non-public friendly bands directed towards the public friendly bands who get to perform in public. In no time there will be a border separating these 2 types of bands. Do we actually want to see hatred brewing between 2 groups of people in our music scene?

Also the term "public friendly" is very very very subjective like some of you have mentioned. Take for example we have pop rock being public friendly. You get bands to perform at an outdoor gig at East Coast Park , okay fine it will definitely be public friendly because the people who hang out at ECP are mostly teenagers and young adults who listen to pop music. You take the pop rock band and slot them in for a outdoor metal gig (if that ever happened in Singapore) and the end result is self explainatory.

What I'm concerned about here is the "standard of music".

My solution : Educate gig organisers on what's happening in the music scene now. Although most of them know what's going on in terms of ,"Of course I know lah...fashion fashion fashion and nothing more than that....." but I don't think that most gig organisers are well educated on the repercussions of what happens when they take the easy way out by sourcing for bands hep-harzardly to fill up the empty gig slots?

The gig organisers job is to organise gigs , ensure that the entire gig is running smoothly , ensure that logistics are up and ready , sourcing out for bands to perform etc I doubt organisers have time to sit down and think of possible consequences arising from their actions like what are possible consequences of taking the easy way out by getting sub standard bands to fill up empty gig slots and such.

Please don't get me wrong , I don't blame the organisers for doing such a "sinful" act because sometimes they just need to please their bosses by filling up every gig slot available or the need to maintain their reputation. Just imagine going to a gig and the organiser is like ,"Errrr due to unforseen circumstances.....10 bands have backed out for the gig!" How would that reflect the image of the organiser? So all in all , sometimes organisers take the easy way out to get sub standard bands to fill up the seats could be due to trying to save their image and pride.

I think educating the gig organisers about what's what in the scene currently is the first step to fixing the problem. Who knows maybe later once all the education part has been done , tighter restrictions can be imposed on bands who wish to gig , indirectly spurring them to work harder to land themselves a gig slot.

Cheers

 

[Crawldaddy]

Hmm.

As mentioned previously by bro Soft bro... the possible solutions are:

1. decrease the number of gigs to force bands into improving so that they can get gig slots.

2. set band performance ratings (professional, independent judging perhaps? no idea don't flame me) so that they know hwere they stand how they can improve.

Now for my own suggestions...

> could we provide bigger publicity for *good* local bands so that younger bands could aspire to reach their standard, knowing that once they do and doing it right they would get the same level of publicity?

> provide some in-depth knowledge for budding musicians when they take lessons with their mentors such that the mentors educate them on what it really means to be in a band? Like "lim-peh ka li kong... you want to be in a band must have such-and-such standard of playing etc etc". Just an idea.

> (ok I know this is going to sound weird) allow bands to let people sit in for their jam sessions to allow feedback immediately and not having to lose face during a gig and face the flames when they come online. After all, if the feedback is constructive and non-ass-kissing, both parties have all to gain; audience gets good music and band gets constructive feedback.


The above is very idealistic and probably hard to attain. But it's just stuff that I thought of. Any takers?

 

[Colarndo]

So do we deny bands that do not perform up to "standard"(in which itself is not defined clearly) a chance to perform by having a filtering process?
Should gig orgainsers start requesting industry standard demos that are worthy of airplay(which used to be the norm)?
How about bands that are friends with the organiser but get to play even if their standard is not there? Who is going to control these?
We don't seem to have a standard QC for gigs, only a set of procedures.
How about the average listener/audience who is none the wiser about grading a band's performance? They seem rather impressed with great showmanship. Can that be graded higher than the actual playing?
You can't please everyone.

 

[shinobi]

like what i have mentioned Corlando, the authority involved could either be the government or profit-driven private organizations which would eventually reduce to over-commercialization. and it is unlikely that the government would have any part as it does not really benefit the people on a nationwide scale.

the 2 groups that doubleblade mentioned to me would be the 'alternative' and the 'mainstream', though i personally do not forsee any clash of interest. i believe that it can and will balance and work out.

thumbs up to all the softies that gave their opinions, this innocuous looking thread has become a great debate and discussion

 

[Colarndo]

How much control do we want over our standards?
Do we compile a registar of all bands in Singapore?
Do we want ISO certified bands where individual members must have Grade 5 in ABRSM Music Theory and attend Music Workshops and courses to get ISO Certification?
What about the bands that don't meet our "standard". Are they condemed and blacklisted and banished from playing forever?
Are new "Laws" going to be introduced for these standards.
There is already a law on creating public nusiance. Are Bad Sounding bands going to be goverened by similar laws?

 

[DoubleBlade]

Yes we cannot please everybody but we can at least minimise the impact.

 

[shinobi]

actually i have a gut feeling that solid rules and laws are not needed. good music will naturally find its way to the top. good bands and good organizers will eventually meet to give positive contributions to the local music scene.

we need to think and work on the ground level:

bands/musicians- people need to respect good music, good playing and good bands. they must realise the beauty of performing, maybe to some extent eradicate the image of music being a mere fad or fashion.

gigs/organizers- there must be a responsibility to promote good music rather than be in it for profit or gain. in the end, the organizers determine the structure, the bands will run the show. it should be some kind of formula

both parties should not rush into things. we are becoming a people who are impatient, with short attention spans

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

why do i have a feeling the whole thing is not going anywhere and in the end everything goes back to normal, quiet down and in another period of ten years, the cycle come back again..

why arent the gigs organizers saying anything?

why arent more people in higher profile bands locally saying anything(i know some of them are reading/in the forum etc)

is there really a drop in standard for the "band/rock" music locally or only to the gigs/music genre style that i have only know of but not other type of music done by locals?

Imho, there will only be more questions as the whole thing goes on and in the end of trying to rationalise everything, the people who are really in the tiny scene, whatever scene if there is, stay away from it and watch the showhere while still going on doing what they are doing without much talking.

iam just a shallow outsiders saying my humble opinions, dont chok chok my backside..

 

[shinobi]

if that really is the case, it makes it seem quite hopeless. quite saddening

is there no way to elevate ourselves from 'complain king' status?

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

saddening? Dont have to mah

In the first place, is there really a problem which is to the majority of people or only to few of us in the forum?

Do we attend all sort of gigs locally, rock, punk, core, soundart, whatever style regularly for the past 5 years enough to see theres a drop in standard?

If no, then maybe there isnt too big a problem at all, just pertaining to a certain situation, no?

imho

 

[soft]

DoubleBlade

we DO NOT limit genre. this is a organiser's call. what we want to do is maintain the minimum standard of the band/musician.

i think your "public friendly" should be more like target audience. as the organiser/promoter, you SHOULD know what works.

we should certify gig organisers too! this way, we can protect everyone's interest.

Colarndo

all questions can be answer by refering to the objective which is Improve The Standard.

shinobi

our discussion might not change anything right away but it raise awareness to the many stakeholder who will read it.

 

[DoubleBlade]

[EDITED BY DOUBLEBLADE]

Okok maybe I should not use the term "drop in standard" but rather "lack of standard". By saying "drop in standard" it kind of forces a stringent comparision between 2 variables one being past and the other latter being present. A "lack of standard" does not usually require years of comparision.

When we say "lack of standard" we usually refer to the technical aspects of playing in a band and I can safely assure you that this is what I am touching on. Technical aspects such as how tight is the band , the vocal delivery of the vocalist , is the band playing in sync? , is the band playing in time? etc....

 

[teraslasch]

i think what he meant is that, have u been to enough gigs in the past 5 years to notice the drop in standard? doesnt mean if u eat this chicken rice stall that sucks, the other 100 stalls out there all suck? if u get wad i mean.

 

[shinobi]

thats true. i'd like to believe that bad gigs are a minority. whether or not its becoming a problem for all gigs in all genres, its hard for one to say. but surely, there is something that everyone would want to improve in their field.

haha certify gig organisers. they are getting alot of flak, one should come and defend the tribe. imagine next time if you wanna book good venues, the owner will ask "can i see your gig organiser cert?" then certain venues will state "class 1 gig organiser only", better venues having higher standards

what if...

 

[soft]

DoubleBlade, careful not to stir the genre problem. we are NOT referring to any particular genre here.

PatheinRaindropMoe, if we use the 5 years measurement. do we see any good results? meanin bands which started 5 years ago, have they made their mark? i hope that 5 years down the road, we will see greater results. this is what we should aim for.

 

[DoubleBlade]

Tera : Yeah sorry my bad....I found out the problem and just finished editing it.

Soft : I am not against any particular genre of music. You have my word. It's just that what I mentioned previously wasn't in relation to his reply.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

greater result iam not too optimistic, in my humble but bias opinion, its more of a cycle going on. There will be up and down.

 

[soft]

PatheinRaindropMoe

yes, it has been going round in circles. since we know that, would we be able to catch the tide and cash in finally?

 

[DoubleBlade]

I have just one more question to ask before I knock off for the day.

With regards to this gig organisers certification thing , what is going to separate the "certified" gig organiser from the "uncertified" gig organiser?

I'm talking about the perks enjoyed by a "certified" gig organiser and does that mean that "uncertified" gig organisers do not enjoy such perks? How are we going to enforce this rule when any non certified gig organiser can do whatever a certified organiser can do all within the legal context of the law. It's not a law after all....

To me , I doubt it will work unless this method of certification is affliated and bounded to the government.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

no one can be sure of that i guess, at least not something that i think can be put down in words easily over an internet forum.

While i think, really, is a good discussion about raising standards of "band" music locally, but to a large extend, if the local bands need external party to come up with rules and procedure to determine or improve their standard, i think its pretty weird.

Let the watching crowds, paying crowds do that, in the form of booing them on stage, thru words of mouth inside internet forum will do. That, although is harsh and negative way, but imho, its the best way to instill the need to polish up and improve on their act.