Standard of music , is it going down the drain?
- Thread starter DoubleBlade
- Start date
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
THIS is what you need :wink:
THIS is what you need :wink:
I wanna comment on the fun over musicianship thing
If I was on stage or even in the jam room, if we werent play to standard (standard meaning = atleast to complete the song and accomplish that "feeling" with maybe one or two mistakes) then I wouldnt be having "fun". I'd be quite annoyed that we were wasting time. If you were to feel like that, why the hell would you even wanna go up on stage?
put yourself in a position where you and your band had just formed for about 2 weeks and your still not tight. would you rather perform the song "ok" to an audience or have them say "wow" ???
Its like saying this - You have a recording on a CD of your bands song, and its "ok" or even worse "crap". are you gonna go out and start giving out those CDs and say this is your band??? I think not.
If I was on stage or even in the jam room, if we werent play to standard (standard meaning = atleast to complete the song and accomplish that "feeling" with maybe one or two mistakes) then I wouldnt be having "fun". I'd be quite annoyed that we were wasting time. If you were to feel like that, why the hell would you even wanna go up on stage?
put yourself in a position where you and your band had just formed for about 2 weeks and your still not tight. would you rather perform the song "ok" to an audience or have them say "wow" ???
Its like saying this - You have a recording on a CD of your bands song, and its "ok" or even worse "crap". are you gonna go out and start giving out those CDs and say this is your band??? I think not.
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
On the other hand it would probably force people to stop being lazy slobs and get their act together.. yes, unorthodox, but it's an idea.. despite it's obvious ridiculousness :lol:
On the other hand it would probably force people to stop being lazy slobs and get their act together.. yes, unorthodox, but it's an idea.. despite it's obvious ridiculousness :lol:
Taylorboy87
New member
aiya so difficult. You all wanna gig in public? PLAY TOP 40s! nobody gives a shite about your original. The majority of the public wants to hear stuff being played on the radio. So play to the majority.
What grading criteria? The grading poster is awful and nonsensical, machiam some kopitiam stall where you hang to let people know how well you can play or the cleanliness (tightness) of your band is. DAMN STUPID! I don't think we would need that as it we would become the laughing stock country of the whole world of such "grading banding system".
And Yes! standard of music nowadays is going down the drain. During the 80's rock period, there are guitar solos to be appreciated! Then on the retro side!, which is all about the keyboards parts, song arrangement and complicated slap pop bass lines, lyrics about love, life and cheesy dance moves. NOW! we have 4 power chord songs, with lyrics about crushes, suicide, depression, bling bling!, about how i screwed your mom to about going home, finding home missing home. SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT BITCH singing thats all!
What grading criteria? The grading poster is awful and nonsensical, machiam some kopitiam stall where you hang to let people know how well you can play or the cleanliness (tightness) of your band is. DAMN STUPID! I don't think we would need that as it we would become the laughing stock country of the whole world of such "grading banding system".
And Yes! standard of music nowadays is going down the drain. During the 80's rock period, there are guitar solos to be appreciated! Then on the retro side!, which is all about the keyboards parts, song arrangement and complicated slap pop bass lines, lyrics about love, life and cheesy dance moves. NOW! we have 4 power chord songs, with lyrics about crushes, suicide, depression, bling bling!, about how i screwed your mom to about going home, finding home missing home. SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT BITCH singing thats all!
shinobi
New member
that's where you're wrong........
it's SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT BITCH feat. Snoop Dogg :lol:
i still disagree with the concept of classifying a band's playing standard. i might seem to be very critical of organizers in my stand, but most of the time, gigs find bands. so if the bands are bad, blame the people who gave them the stage in the first place. maybe his bro in law or sth. you need to question how bad bands are able to find gigs
if you talk about the standard of music in general, yes, its going down. its a cash in, cash out industry, as are many other forms entertainment. you can blame it on commercialization, competition, globalization and what not. that's what you call development, progress. too bad
it's SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT BITCH feat. Snoop Dogg :lol:
i still disagree with the concept of classifying a band's playing standard. i might seem to be very critical of organizers in my stand, but most of the time, gigs find bands. so if the bands are bad, blame the people who gave them the stage in the first place. maybe his bro in law or sth. you need to question how bad bands are able to find gigs
if you talk about the standard of music in general, yes, its going down. its a cash in, cash out industry, as are many other forms entertainment. you can blame it on commercialization, competition, globalization and what not. that's what you call development, progress. too bad
problem: Standard of music going down.
solution 1: fewer gigs. force bands to be really good to get a slot.
solution 2: implement a grading system. let bands know where they stand. let them know the route to progress.
if bands/musicians want to command the same respect as fellow professionals, they must render the kind of results expected of them.
would you want a rookie doctor to do a major operation on you? same thing for bands/musicians.
unsane, certain bands use "sloppy" as part of their image (showmanship). it work for some, not for everyone. just like william hung, it worked for him.
i am commenting from a musician's pov and i am sure we understand what musicianship is all about.
since we are all in this together, wanting to make the local musci scene better, we should get to the root of the problem. better musicians/bands in ALL genres. let say we have 400 on/off bands and about 20 of them are considered grade A. we must encourage the community to progress and have 50 grade A bands in second year. 100 in the third year.
when we have more good bands/musicians, we will have better original music. the audienceship will increase and bands/musicians will find it viable to embark on it as a career. the other related industry such as recording/jam studio, labels, record company, radio station, tv station, newspaper will increase.
right now, we see alot of coverage on local music not because of the music but because it is a fashion. as the ring leader of this SOFT community, i am very worried that once the fad pass, we will loose the 'trust, respect, commitment, support' and we will be back to ground zero.
solution 1: fewer gigs. force bands to be really good to get a slot.
solution 2: implement a grading system. let bands know where they stand. let them know the route to progress.
if bands/musicians want to command the same respect as fellow professionals, they must render the kind of results expected of them.
would you want a rookie doctor to do a major operation on you? same thing for bands/musicians.
unsane, certain bands use "sloppy" as part of their image (showmanship). it work for some, not for everyone. just like william hung, it worked for him.
i am commenting from a musician's pov and i am sure we understand what musicianship is all about.
since we are all in this together, wanting to make the local musci scene better, we should get to the root of the problem. better musicians/bands in ALL genres. let say we have 400 on/off bands and about 20 of them are considered grade A. we must encourage the community to progress and have 50 grade A bands in second year. 100 in the third year.
when we have more good bands/musicians, we will have better original music. the audienceship will increase and bands/musicians will find it viable to embark on it as a career. the other related industry such as recording/jam studio, labels, record company, radio station, tv station, newspaper will increase.
right now, we see alot of coverage on local music not because of the music but because it is a fashion. as the ring leader of this SOFT community, i am very worried that once the fad pass, we will loose the 'trust, respect, commitment, support' and we will be back to ground zero.
teraslasch
New member
the solution first is to get real quality bands. why open a station when theres nothing good to show off? oh, u mean ur crappy quality demos? :lol: the solution is to get the government to pump 1 million into 10 really good local bands. advertise, record album etc. 10 bands X 1 album = 10 albums. 10 albums X 10 good songs = 100 songs. now , there you have something really good to show off. Only 2-3 bands would really make it big, - repeat the process and the local scene will go BOOOOOOom. oh wait, i remember our garment only spend money on crappy events with sh*tty turn outs . with that 1 million they spent... many many many many things could have been done to help our good local bands rise to fameeee.
*oops, i forgot to say that the government should pump the 1 million by signing contracts with our major record labels to help these bands* get each of them to produce a few bands and ta da.. the garment will pay for everythiung, but the label has to the work.*
*oops, i forgot to say that the government should pump the 1 million by signing contracts with our major record labels to help these bands* get each of them to produce a few bands and ta da.. the garment will pay for everythiung, but the label has to the work.*
shinobi
New member
i totally agree with that last part of james' post. music needs to be respected.
sometimes its not a matter of fewer or greater number of gigs. there are many types of gigs. low, mid and high level gigs. there are different kinds of bands too, amateur/professional, good/sucky etc. sometime's its a mismatch. maybe its a case of the gigs (organizers) squeezing the bands, or the bands squeezing the gigs. i don't know. its a band-gig relationship, small bands desperate to get gigs, big gigs wanting big bands, big bands wanting cash for their effort.
but that's only gigs. there is also the general quality of music, not limited to live acts. i feel a grading system is infeasible if you want to talk about standardising the grades, making it applicable to do different kinds of bands with different aims, playing different genres of music. and then there's a question of who's gonna be the authority on this matter? on such a macro level, maybe the government? or some profit-driven commercial entity, which could lead us on a downward spiral back to the over-commercialism of the music scene?
this is a tough one. but if you get back to basics, maybe the spirit of competition should be encouraged. this could provide a motive for bands to keep improving. could jam studios be involved? "wee lee's top 10 bands of the month" or something? maybe we should start from the foundation, from the micro level.
fashion is mainly a cycle of passing phases. for music to just die off like that is really frightening. but maybe people are forgetting that there is alot of respect to be earned from playing good music. again it goes back to the standard of music. got to show people the real deal.
if just 1 radio station were to dedicate just 1 show a week to local music, it would be fantastic. but unfortunately radio stations are also driven by money. i doubt they feel any responsibility for the local music scene at any extra expense
sometimes its not a matter of fewer or greater number of gigs. there are many types of gigs. low, mid and high level gigs. there are different kinds of bands too, amateur/professional, good/sucky etc. sometime's its a mismatch. maybe its a case of the gigs (organizers) squeezing the bands, or the bands squeezing the gigs. i don't know. its a band-gig relationship, small bands desperate to get gigs, big gigs wanting big bands, big bands wanting cash for their effort.
but that's only gigs. there is also the general quality of music, not limited to live acts. i feel a grading system is infeasible if you want to talk about standardising the grades, making it applicable to do different kinds of bands with different aims, playing different genres of music. and then there's a question of who's gonna be the authority on this matter? on such a macro level, maybe the government? or some profit-driven commercial entity, which could lead us on a downward spiral back to the over-commercialism of the music scene?
this is a tough one. but if you get back to basics, maybe the spirit of competition should be encouraged. this could provide a motive for bands to keep improving. could jam studios be involved? "wee lee's top 10 bands of the month" or something? maybe we should start from the foundation, from the micro level.
fashion is mainly a cycle of passing phases. for music to just die off like that is really frightening. but maybe people are forgetting that there is alot of respect to be earned from playing good music. again it goes back to the standard of music. got to show people the real deal.
if just 1 radio station were to dedicate just 1 show a week to local music, it would be fantastic. but unfortunately radio stations are also driven by money. i doubt they feel any responsibility for the local music scene at any extra expense
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
Well just for the record, Taylorboy87, this whole 'grading system' in which I have parodied is just a bit of humour. Perhaps you thought it was serious. However, I was trying to inject some light-heartedness into a thread which is very serious, and it rightly should be.
I agree with James that we ought to set higher goals for ourselves and our bands collectively... and we can start with our own bands.. having the members being committed and cohesive and able to look into themselves.
But just being humble is not going to get us through the door, we must be able to sell ourselves through the music and image. Yes.. I daresay it's a compromise between the two. Anyone can disagree but this topic of music vs image has been debated to the death.
But bottom line IMO is that new bands in general need to buck up their mentality if they intend to make a name for themselves. I'm working on it for my band.. it's a slow process and we shouldn't really rush it now, shouldn't we? After all, musicianship takes time and we wouldn't want a half-baked band performing onstage and demanding crowd attendance.
And I also agree with shinobi... Let us start a trend of respecting the music instead of the image, then perhaps we'll get a proper foot-hold in our own turf, before setting sights on foreign turfs (or "turves"?).
Well just for the record, Taylorboy87, this whole 'grading system' in which I have parodied is just a bit of humour. Perhaps you thought it was serious. However, I was trying to inject some light-heartedness into a thread which is very serious, and it rightly should be.
I agree with James that we ought to set higher goals for ourselves and our bands collectively... and we can start with our own bands.. having the members being committed and cohesive and able to look into themselves.
But just being humble is not going to get us through the door, we must be able to sell ourselves through the music and image. Yes.. I daresay it's a compromise between the two. Anyone can disagree but this topic of music vs image has been debated to the death.
But bottom line IMO is that new bands in general need to buck up their mentality if they intend to make a name for themselves. I'm working on it for my band.. it's a slow process and we shouldn't really rush it now, shouldn't we? After all, musicianship takes time and we wouldn't want a half-baked band performing onstage and demanding crowd attendance.
And I also agree with shinobi... Let us start a trend of respecting the music instead of the image, then perhaps we'll get a proper foot-hold in our own turf, before setting sights on foreign turfs (or "turves"?).
Actually I was wondering if we demand better quality from our music we must first ask ourselves about our commitment
Are we willing to to give up our jobs to be a full-time musician?
When we can get a more stable job with the regular cashflow paycheck...
Are we willing to throw everything aside and go global(Extensive Touring etc)with our standard of music?
Or stick to our comfort zones...
And do this without gahmen funding and support?
Or will we continue complaining that gahmen don't fund this and that?
BTW once a week in Life, one local band/artist gets featured.
There once was a weekly local band radio programme.
Excluding the mainstream media, myspace band accounts and youtube band videos, the exposure is growing slowly.
The interest of playing in a band(Straits Times School Of Rock, Kids Rock programme)targerted towards the youth is still there.
Looking at all those young kids in the (Kids Central)Kids Rock programme makes me inspired even if their parents may have dragged them for the auditions.
But I wonder about their future. Will they just vanish after the competition? Cultivate their interest in music? Or get caught up in the paper chase and throw their talent to a corner?
I wonder how this younger generation will grow up.
Are we willing to to give up our jobs to be a full-time musician?
When we can get a more stable job with the regular cashflow paycheck...
Are we willing to throw everything aside and go global(Extensive Touring etc)with our standard of music?
Or stick to our comfort zones...
And do this without gahmen funding and support?
Or will we continue complaining that gahmen don't fund this and that?
BTW once a week in Life, one local band/artist gets featured.
There once was a weekly local band radio programme.
Excluding the mainstream media, myspace band accounts and youtube band videos, the exposure is growing slowly.
The interest of playing in a band(Straits Times School Of Rock, Kids Rock programme)targerted towards the youth is still there.
Looking at all those young kids in the (Kids Central)Kids Rock programme makes me inspired even if their parents may have dragged them for the auditions.
But I wonder about their future. Will they just vanish after the competition? Cultivate their interest in music? Or get caught up in the paper chase and throw their talent to a corner?
I wonder how this younger generation will grow up.
teraslasch
New member
"Actually I was wondering if we demand better quality from our music we must first ask ourselves about our commitment
Are we willing to to give up our jobs to be a full-time musician?
When we can get a more stable job with the regular cashflow paycheck...
Are we willing to throw everything aside and go global(Extensive Touring etc)with our standard of music?
Or stick to our comfort zones..."
there are many out there who are willing to do so. there are people out there that are. but in the first place, how is it possible without money and connections? how the hell do u go GLOBAL when u don even have the money to fund a high budget quality album recording? without any support, its technically impossible to do everything by yourself unless all of your members are rich kids with property tycoon parents who could probably easily spend millions on the band. there are many out there who are willing to throw aside everything for the sake of music. but what do they get? peanuts.
Are we willing to to give up our jobs to be a full-time musician?
When we can get a more stable job with the regular cashflow paycheck...
Are we willing to throw everything aside and go global(Extensive Touring etc)with our standard of music?
Or stick to our comfort zones..."
there are many out there who are willing to do so. there are people out there that are. but in the first place, how is it possible without money and connections? how the hell do u go GLOBAL when u don even have the money to fund a high budget quality album recording? without any support, its technically impossible to do everything by yourself unless all of your members are rich kids with property tycoon parents who could probably easily spend millions on the band. there are many out there who are willing to throw aside everything for the sake of music. but what do they get? peanuts.
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
Colarndo, personally I would look upon music as an alternative avenue, kind of like an investment area in which I give in a certain percentage of my time, commitment and money. I would not expect immediate returns but rather I'd see how it grows with time and I know it would encounter pitfalls along the way.
But regarding the paper chase.. I would say that I would be pursuing a deree after my NS, despite the fact that in my field of work (industrial design) it is the portfolio which would allow me to walk into the organisation compared to the paper which only allows me to place my hand on the doorknob.
However I am optimistic that the youth of today (myself included) will continue to grow and seek wisdom according to their own abilities. We probably can't expect a nation of businessmen, doctors, lawyers and engineers (my extended family has a mix of all three catagories anyway) but there will always be a few misguided souls which causes both the outside world and singaporeans alike to doubt ourselves.
But honestly only the very skilled or lucky few would get the chance to become a full-time musician. Students like myself can only juggle schoolwork, part-time jobs and music to the best we can.
Colarndo, personally I would look upon music as an alternative avenue, kind of like an investment area in which I give in a certain percentage of my time, commitment and money. I would not expect immediate returns but rather I'd see how it grows with time and I know it would encounter pitfalls along the way.
But regarding the paper chase.. I would say that I would be pursuing a deree after my NS, despite the fact that in my field of work (industrial design) it is the portfolio which would allow me to walk into the organisation compared to the paper which only allows me to place my hand on the doorknob.
However I am optimistic that the youth of today (myself included) will continue to grow and seek wisdom according to their own abilities. We probably can't expect a nation of businessmen, doctors, lawyers and engineers (my extended family has a mix of all three catagories anyway) but there will always be a few misguided souls which causes both the outside world and singaporeans alike to doubt ourselves.
But honestly only the very skilled or lucky few would get the chance to become a full-time musician. Students like myself can only juggle schoolwork, part-time jobs and music to the best we can.
Thanks for the honest replies brothers. After hearing all these, I know there is hope for our local scene.
Personally, as much as I would like to pursue a full-time music career, I still have to think about my future ricebowl and where can my music take me. Worse still, haven't taken into account if I get married and have kids in future, whether I can support them.
PS: Sorry For The OFF topic remarks.
Personally, as much as I would like to pursue a full-time music career, I still have to think about my future ricebowl and where can my music take me. Worse still, haven't taken into account if I get married and have kids in future, whether I can support them.
PS: Sorry For The OFF topic remarks.
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