Singapore Malay Model Got Canned For Drinking Beer In M'sia.

Let the TS decide what to do or let James use his discretion.As far as i can see, you, tim098 contributed to just as much of insensitivity and ignorance together with the rest of them. So? you really should not be the one to vote for a close or open to this thread. I will respect anytime Faizal_rocks or FGL's vote to close this thread.BUT definitely not your's.

Yeah, show me one single post in which I was displaying what you just said I did. And any and everyone here has the right to vote for the closure of a thread. No one gives a damn about your respect, you are on an internet forum, balloonhead, not the UN.

This thread has gone far enough from the topic, and the rules clearly state that no discussion pertaining to religion will be tolerated. Don't be a dumbass and say you don't 'respect my vote', it's not even about that. It's about rules being rules.
 
Apparently the cane to be used is not the same as those for men. Its less than four feet long and the caner is not allowed to swing from above his head.

With respect to the related issue of Islam, the truth is no matter what has been said or suggested by those who hate Islam here including some muslims and former muslims here, muslims in the world today have pretty much reached the point of not caring less because we have our own ways which others will never understand, claim to be barbaric or backward but Muslims know their religion better and we follow it to the best of our abilities.

So to us our religion and to you, your religion. And each will know on the the day he dies whether he followed the right path or not.
 
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Jersey star .. interesting observation ...

What we have to consider is how do the Muslims around the world with their diffirent levels of conservatism stand with each other .... e.g. Muslims in Turkey drink beer & whisky compared to Muslis in Saudi Arabia ....

and just how "dedicated" would these individuals be once out of their countries?

just last ngt I received the organ donar details - as far as I know Muslims are not supposed to donate their organs after death (which was the practise before)..and now it seems MUIS advocates the donation of organs .... so which is the religous law & which is the law of the land?
 
muslims in the world today have pretty much reached the point of not caring less because we have our own ways which others will never understand, claim to be barbaric, backward but Muslims know their better and we follow it to the best of our abilities.

Religion specific aside, this is an interesting point. I've often wondered, comparing my life where I have almost everything I could have wanted (except for cases of GAS), to the staunch religious follower who have everything he/she has ever needed from God and is at peace for knowing so, who's life is better? Would I have been happier if I was able to devote my entire life to a single belief, and would be able to ignore worldly issues?

Sometimes I really envy those who are able to do so. Having studied in a Jesuit institution in the past, I have certainly met OLD (almost ancient) Jesuit priests who seem to be totally happy in their lives, dedicating everything they know and do and think to God, while I'm busy scrambling around to find my direction in life. (Actually, i've found my direction and key motivator in life, but that's a different story)

Some may say I have the better end of the deal, since I've achieved almost what I want to achieve, according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but who's to tell the man who knows nothing that he's better off knowing everything else? Perhaps happiness is better sought elsewhere?

At the end of the day, isn't what we all aim to be, simply to be happy?
 
Just last ngt I received the organ donar details - as far as I know Muslims are not supposed to donate their organs after death (which was the practise before)..and now it seems MUIS advocates the donation of organs .... so which is the religous law & which is the law of the land?

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543346&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

What does Islam say about organ donation during life or after death. Is this allowed in Islam?

“This question is very much debated by the jurists in past two decades. The Supreme Council of `Ulama in Riyadh (in their resolution no. 99 dated 6 Dhul Qi'dah 1402) has allowed both organ donation and organ transplantation in the case of necessity.

The organ can be taken from the body of a living person with his/her consent and approval and also from the body of a dead person. In the case of a living person, the jurists have stipulated that this donation should not deprive him/her of vital organs. It should also not cause risk to his/her normal life.

The Fiqh Academy of the Muslim World League, Makkah also allowed organ donation and transplantation in its 8th session held between 28 Rabi'ul Thani- 7 Jumadal Ula, 1405.

The Fiqh Academy of the Organization of the Islamic Conference in Jeddah, during the year 1408, and the Mufti of Egypt Dr. Sayyed At-Tantawi also allowed the use of the body organs of a person who has died in an accident, if the necessity requires the use of any organ to cure a patient, provided that a competent and trustworthy Muslim physician makes this decision.

It is important to note that most of the jurists have only allowed the donation of the organs. They do not allow the sale of human organs. Their position is that the sale of human organs violates the rules of the dignity and honor of the human being, and so it would be haram in that case.

Some jurists suggest that because people have become too materialistic and it may not be possible to find a free organ, under necessity one can purchase the organs, but a Muslim should never sell his/her organs.”
 
Remember, Islamic Law has come about from various, different fundamental roots and given an order of precedence that is -

1) The Qur'an

2) The Sunnah (actions and sayings of Muhammad)

3) The consensus of the Muslim jurists (ijma)

4) Analogical reasoning (qiyas)

:cool:
 
Where the cane lands is the question now i guess ?

According to the papers, I believe should be at the lower area of her bottom, where the fleshy area is.
From the way the newspapers explain it, it seems that the caning is more of... Hmm... I know this isn't the right word but the only word i can think of is "Humiliation". Its more of a show to warn the model and the others, nto so much of physical pain.

Well, this is at least what I gathered from the newspapers
 
Jersey star .. interesting observation ...

What we have to consider is how do the Muslims around the world with their diffirent levels of conservatism stand with each other .... e.g. Muslims in Turkey drink beer & whisky compared to Muslims in Saudi Arabia ....

and just how "dedicated" would these individuals be once out of their countries?

Hi FGL, you'd actually be surprised how cohesive the majority of the Muslim world outside of Singapore is. When I say muslim world here I'm not really referring to the governments of Muslim countries since we know many are where they are because of American and British foreign policy in the past 100 years. What I'm actually referring to the is the sentiment of the general population of Muslims in most Muslim countries.

Just across the border there actually is an Islamic University that is sponsored by the OIC, and Muslim students the world over flock to this university and they bring with them not just their culture and food but also their feelings and opinions of others in their country as well. I had extensive interaction with many such fellow muslims thanks in part to my research I was conducting and that university's students was the perfect sample for my thesis.

Anyway, I've met so many muslims from all over the muslim world Saudi, Yemen, Somalia, Nigeria to even China and I'm not talking about Xian province but Beijing, Hainan etc. The general sentiment predominantly abound is that the solidarity is there, stronger than it has ever been in the past 100 years thanks in part to Bush's war on Afghanistan and Iraq and the 1.2 million deaths from Iraq alone. Initially the tone of muslims when dealing with accusations and antagonism from the west is to try to explain or appease or what some might call being apologetic but as the years passed, you could sense that the tone/vibe changing to what I described in my earlier post.

With regards to your question about how they would be once outside of their country? Well there are black sheep of course from every country but as a whole those who indulge all these things when they are out of their country is a minuscule fraction of of those who observe their religion. The thing is when you see an entire street of Arabs partying and indulging in the haram you can't fail to think that they are all like that but anyone would fail to notice that for every one of the hundred or so you see out there, you don't see the thousands who avoid such places.

Let me give you an example, Singapore recently tried to attract Arab students to study in Singapore. This was in the news a couple of months back. Personally I think this would fail and the only Arabs you see coming here are those who want to drink alcohol, who want to fornicate and all the other vices in other words the small minority. The thing here is if this is the only Arabs that you see here in Singapore, drinking our wine, screwing our women, you'd probably think they are all like that too.

In truth, most Arabs would probably blacklist Singapore for one main reason and that is they cannot pray as easily here as they can in Malaysia. In Malaysia, every shopping centre, office building etc would have a small prayer room so Muslims can practise their religion here as easily there but here, there is not and the only places they can pray is at the Masjid and these are not exactly everywhere. When it comes to prayer the Arabs do not miss it like Muslims here do. You know in Tan Tock Seng hospital there is a prayer room on the top floor wards which are only meant for the Arab patients who go to Johns Hopkins. Can you imagine the hospital allowing a prayer room only for them and not for local muslims in the other wards? It is because they see their daily prayers as the single most important thing and so long as they can't practise their religion here as easily, they're not going to come here and the only ones who do come here are those who do not pray and these aren't exactly the good ones.
 
Religion specific aside, this is an interesting point. I've often wondered, comparing my life where I have almost everything I could have wanted (except for cases of GAS), to the staunch religious follower who have everything he/she has ever needed from God and is at peace for knowing so, who's life is better? Would I have been happier if I was able to devote my entire life to a single belief, and would be able to ignore worldly issues?

Sometimes I really envy those who are able to do so. Having studied in a Jesuit institution in the past, I have certainly met OLD (almost ancient) Jesuit priests who seem to be totally happy in their lives, dedicating everything they know and do and think to God, while I'm busy scrambling around to find my direction in life. (Actually, i've found my direction and key motivator in life, but that's a different story)

Some may say I have the better end of the deal, since I've achieved almost what I want to achieve, according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but who's to tell the man who knows nothing that he's better off knowing everything else? Perhaps happiness is better sought elsewhere?

At the end of the day, isn't what we all aim to be, simply to be happy?

You know Whitestrat (I actually also play a white (now cream) strat but thats not the point) what you described is actually the purpose of life in a nutshell from the Islamic perspective.

In short, muslims are taught that this life is worth absolutely nothing regardless of the illusion of all the pleasures it offers but the next life the the real one and it is forever. Believing that is easy but living and doing it is not. Muslims are taught that the road to heaven is paved with difficulty and hardships but the road to hell is paved with pleasure. This whole idea is actually the 'greater jihad' the prophet Muhammad was talking about. i.e. the struggle against worldly pleasures.

So what's the benefit to a person if he inherits the whole world but forfeits his soul. This life will come to an end, and you can't take anything with you when you die except your deeds and sins and that is only if you believe in Judgement day. But for a Muslim good deeds alone are not enough to ensure entry to Heaven but one would also need God's Mercy that He would admit you to heaven. So how can God not love someone who obeys his commandments, adheres to His call and dedicate their lives to Him?
 
Organ Donation?

Remember, Islamic Law has come about from various, different fundamental roots and given an order of precedence that is -

1) The Qur'an

2) The Sunnah (actions and sayings of Muhammad)

3) The consensus of the Muslim jurists (ijma)

4) Analogical reasoning (qiyas)

:cool:


FGL

this is actually the real answer to your 'Still haven't found a reply to my question' in gigantic bold letters. Or rather man made laws vs God's real laws.

Islamic law or Shariah first and foremost, what God has proclaimed as haram or forbidden in the Quran, is basically written in stone and unchangeable by any consensus or fatwa or whatever. Nobody can proclaim something to be 'haram' that is a right that belongs only to God. And what has been proclaimed to be haram by God cannot (and you will never find) be proclaimed as halal. However, there are issues which we discover with time which can be proclaimed as halal so long as it is not mentioned as haram in the Quran in the first place.

For what is not mentioned in the Quran, we then look at the second most important source of law, the Sunnah and your punishment for drinking alcohol would most likely fall into this category; if not the Sunnah of the prophet, then the Sahabat. After all the legitimacy of the Sunnah does come from the Quran saying to also follow the way of the messenger. A good example is the five daily prayers is not mentioned in the Quran how to go about doing them but it is in the Sunnah.

After this, as HK says is true. Then comes the consensus and it is from here that fatwas are produced. Another misconception people have is that one man can produce a fatwa. No he can't. A fatwa needs to be discussed by a council of ulama's and only if a consensus is agreed upon then it is passed.

Even then, according to the Sunnah, the prophet said if the ummah does follow this procedure and a fatwa is produced but that fatwa is wrong, the one who follows it will still get 'hasanat/pahala' or reward. If the fatwa was correct, the 'hasanat/pahala' will be double.

With regards to your issue on organ donation, personally I don't like the idea but no one can proclaim that not donating your organ is haram since we've established none have that right other than God. Having said that, it would then not be haram if I chose not to donate. It would also not be haram if I did since it wasn't specified for had it been so, there would never have been a discussion on its permissibility.

Also I don't think it ever was haram in the first place, just probably not practiced due to traditions.
 
wow... a topic can easily turned to a different topic...
now it involves arabs and prayers. nice

Aiyah... people ask questions we must be nice and answer to the best of our abilities mah..

It's like if your 10 year old brother happened to hear your parents trying to give you guys another sibling, then he asks "Eh, why mommy sounds like she's crying? What is that piak piak sound? Should we go see whether daddy's doing anything bad to her?".

You will have to tell him the truth one day what.

So, might as well tell him now.

:mrgreen:
 
It's like if your 10 year old brother happened to hear your parents trying to give you guys another sibling, then he asks "Eh, why mommy sounds like she's crying?........

:mrgreen:

Reminds me of a joke….

Says a kid “When you go to heaven, the legs go in first”.
“How do you know?” asked another.

“Well mommy was in bed see. She had her legs straight up in the air and crying…
‘Oh Lord! I’m coming! I’m coming!’

;)
 
aiyah... People ask questions we must be nice and answer to the best of our abilities mah..

It's like if your 10 year old brother happened to hear your parents trying to give you guys another sibling, then he asks "eh, why mommy sounds like she's crying? What is that piak piak sound? Should we go see whether daddy's doing anything bad to her?".

You will have to tell him the truth one day what.

So, might as well tell him now.

:mrgreen:

muuauahahahahahahhaahhaahhaah!!!
 
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