Muslims and alcohol

[Dime]

i gotta clear my hangover now n go drinking again tonite. and i am a muslim. so dun shoot me. i got my views too

Power ah bro.ni macam baru gerek.

 

[senn_liu]

 

[Jerseystar]

Nobody can deny the barbarity of Sharia law.

* Adulterous couples are stoned to death, prostitutes are hanged in public, and women in the company of men who are not blood relatives are executed.
* Rape victims are punished.
* "Zina laws" prohibit adultery, prostitution, and rape. Punishment is execution or amputation of the hands. This is done to the victims as well.
* Women cannot vote or get elected.
* Husbands can beat up their wives at their heart's content.
* Women cannot do anything outside of the house without the father or husband's consent.
* Women cannot get custody of their children.
* Women are banned from a number of fields of education.
* Women must wear the hijab when outside of the house.
* In more extremist countries like Iran, a woman arrested for wearing make-up is forced to clean up with cotton balls rolled in broken glass.
* In Pakistan, insulting Mohammed is punished by death (Contempt of Prophet's Act)


How do women escape a religion that gives them no rights? For most muslims in countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, they are born into their religion. The tradition and law that binds them is ironclad. I can tell you without a doubt that if any of them tried to convert, they would be an outcast at best and dead more often than not.

Hii while I have seen many articles printed in the press about some of what you mentioned, I think you made the mistake of associating what happened in those countries with what Islam teaches.

With exception of adultery which I've leave for last, nowhere in Islam does it say women in the company of men who are not blood relatives are to be executed, rape victims punished, or that women cannot vote or get elected, or cannot get education for that matter. What you may see happening in some countries is not reflective of what Islam teaches. Its like saying what Israel does is reflective of judaism when there are many jews who are against zionism. Or that the conduct of America i.e. going to war on a lie and end up killing over a million Iraqis is reflective of Christianity based on Thou Shall Not Kill. Its not fair to blur the lines.

Adultery is a huge sin that Shariah Law prescribes stoning to death which so does the bible. So don't commit adultery. Unless you champion adultery as a right man in derogation to God's commandment Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery?

The husband does not have the right to beat up his wife to 'his hearts content.' Insulting Prophet Muhammad is only done by non muslims, you will never find Muslims insulting Jesus Christ. If there is a musilm who would insult Jesus Christ, the muslims themselves will probably execute him.

 

[Vaiyen]

i find it curious that these religions don't bat an eyelid at the word "execution".

 

[theunknown]

As many religions teach, you do good, you get rewarded, you do bad, you get punished. there are consequences for everything you. God(if you believe in God) give you minds to think. when you can think, you do. then expect yourselves to be responsible.

healthy arguments, i like. when insults jump in, please lock.

be merry. this is singapore. multi whatever there is.

 

[Vaiyen]

if God loves everyone as his child, why would He recommend killing people who made certain mistakes?

 

[hii]

Hii while I have seen many articles printed in the press about some of what you mentioned, I think you made the mistake of associating what happened in those countries with what Islam teaches.

With exception of adultery which I've leave for last, nowhere in Islam does it say women in the company of men who are not blood relatives are to be executed, rape victims punished, or that women cannot vote or get elected, or cannot get education for that matter. What you may see happening in some countries is not reflective of what Islam teaches. Its like saying what Israel does is reflective of judaism when there are many jews who are against zionism. Or that the conduct of America i.e. going to war on a lie and end up killing over a million Iraqis is reflective of Christianity based on Thou Shall Not Kill. Its not fair to blur the lines.

Adultery is a huge sin that Shariah Law prescribes stoning to death which so does the bible. So don't commit adultery. Unless you champion adultery as a right man in derogation to God's commandment Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery?

The husband does not have the right to beat up his wife to 'his hearts content.' Insulting Prophet Muhammad is only done by non muslims, you will never find Muslims insulting Jesus Christ. If there is a musilm who would insult Jesus Christ, the muslims themselves will probably execute him.

Please do take a look at your own religious texts:


Quotes from Hadith TIRMZI AND OTHERS

1. If a woman's conduct is mischievous or immodest, the husband has the right to beat her up but must not break her bones. She must not allow anybody to enter the house if her husband does not like him. She has the right to expect sustenance of her husband. (TR. P 439)
2. It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
7. If prostration were a legitimate act other than to God, woman should have prostrated to her husband. (TR. P 428)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse the woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428)
9. The marriage of a woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
10. A woman who seeks KHULA i.e. divorce from her man, without a just cause, shall not enter paradise. (TR. P 440)
On the contrary, a husband can divorce his wife at will.
11. Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)
12. If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)
13. Women who are ungrateful to their men are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)
14. A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27) She is not allowed to practise birth control either.



Quotes from the "Holy" Quran on Women

II/223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate). So go to your tilth as ye will...



IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.



IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.

IV/16: (For Men) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.

As you can see, for women any sort of sexual exploration is punishable by death. Whereas for a man, any form of perversion is pardoned

XXIV/6-7: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves , let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies...

Here we see, that a husband can easily accuse his wife (or wives) and eventually sentence her to death by merely declaring four times that the accusation is true. On the other hand, women have no such right in Islam.

 

[KingDiamond]

if God loves everyone as his child, why would He recommend killing people who made certain mistakes?

ok bro.... example only ar... if ur mum or wife kena raped. do u think u will have compasion for the person who does this merciless act. So God allow THROUGH RELIGION to kill the said person. First raping is against the Islamic law and against the community law. yes community let these people go to jail.. and guess wat after they came out form jail... they rape again... and what now.. jail lifetime.. better to be stoned to death for these basta**s right. Religion teaches u to be a good being.. so that u will avoid doing and sayings that are not right. God almighty is very passionate and fair to all human kind.

 

[Jerseystar]

if God loves everyone as his child, why would He recommend killing people who made certain mistakes?

From the muslim standpoint, God does not beget so your analogy is insufficient. The human idea might be that ones own child is the ultimate thing to love but God's love for his creation possibly is far greater than you or I can understand.

The point you're missing is the purpose of life. If life is ALL THAT THERE IS then yeah who wouldn't want to be saved from 'mistakes' but from the Muslim standpoint, the purpose of life is not merely to enjoy it but its actually a test (or series of test) from the day we were born till we die while going through these tests, we ought to keep our covenant with God that the people of old forsook.

We are told that to get to heaven is full of trials and tribulations but the one who manages to keep being dutiful to God in the face of such adversity, none would be more deserving of paradise. The road to hell on the other hand is easy and filled with pleasures such as adultery, fornication, etc.

So from the Muslim standpoint, we are told the next life is forever and to achieve that in heaven, just endure with patience and perseverance and keep our covenant. But if the next life which is forever is to be in hell then we are commanded to say 'Just enjoy this life'

 

[SlumberBro]

hey guys, i didn't read the whole thread, but I'm gonna write my opinion anyways. I'm a malay guy, and I, after much thinking and consideration, describe myself as an ex-muslim. I did this because i find it stupid, not just islam, but the whole religion thing, but we'll leave that for other days.

Anyways, back on topic, since I'm a Malay, I feel very disgraced and shamed of such laws. It is humiliating and very belittling of Malays. It's like we have no rights, no freewill. It's like we were not given to think by ourselves what is right and what is wrong, instead we have to follow some book an arab guy wrote in a cave a long time ago( i'll get beheaded for saying fer sure). Anyways to all the fundamentalists, I hope you'd respect other muslims choices and decisions. He can believe whatever he wants, you have no right over him, he can believe in the koran but worship mas selamat, it is his choice. his FREEDOM.

FREEDOM TO THE MALAYS, WE WILL FIGHT THIS ISLAMIC TYRANNY JUST LIKE THE IRANIAN ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIRS.

p.s to the dude who said there's no difference between stoning and hanging, you are very very very stupid.

 

[SlumberBro]

The husband does not have the right to beat up his wife to 'his hearts content.' Insulting Prophet Muhammad is only done by non muslims, you will never find Muslims insulting Jesus Christ. If there is a musilm who would insult Jesus Christ, the muslims themselves will probably execute him.

So you believe, that petty insults, jesus or mohammad, is punishable by death? Is that not barbaric? Where is the Patience that these religions believe? Where is this Peace, that these religions believe? Through terror and martial law and jailing people for naming a teddy bear mohammad?

Also, you may not understand fully about the point of "rape victims". Many people(like some muslims) think the victims deserve it, by wearing provokingly.

 

[soft]

SlumberBro, I need to warn you that you will be responsible for whatever you are typing in this forum. If any of your post is deem citing racial disharmony and someone indeed got offended by your post and make a police report, do be prepared to give a good explanation.

We all have to be responsible for our own actions.

 

[SlumberBro]

SlumberBro, I need to warn you that you will be responsible for whatever you are typing in this forum. If any of your post is deem citing racial disharmony and someone indeed got offended by your post and make a police report, do be prepared to give a good explanation.

We all have to be responsible for our own actions.

I am sorry if I sounded too harsh or ignorant. Obviously this is my first time posting in Singapore forums. I just want to hear their side of the story. That is my only intent, I don't want to start any troubles. Again, I'd like to apologize to any that may had been offended.

 

[Jerseystar]

So you believe, that petty insults, jesus or mohammad, is punishable by death? Is that not barbaric? Where is the Patience that these religions believe? Where is this Peace, that these religions believe? Through terror and martial law and jailing people for naming a teddy bear mohammad?

Also, you may not understand fully about the point of "rape victims". Many people(like some muslims) think the victims deserve it, by wearing provokingly.

There's a saying that goes, if you don't start shit, there's not going to be shit.

Why insult Muhammad or Jesus (peace be upon them) in the first place? These are sacred, moreso than even perhaps your own parents. Having said that, does Shariah Law claim that one who does so deserve death? What is permitted or made forbidden in Shariah Law comes not from man but from God and no man has the right to add to it or remove from it.

Sorry about your loss of faith and good luck to you.

 

[SlumberBro]

There's a saying that goes, if you don't start shit, there's not going to be shit.

Why insult Muhammad or Jesus (peace be upon them) in the first place? These are sacred, moreso than even perhaps your own parents. Having said that, does Shariah Law claim that one who does so deserve death? What is permitted or made forbidden in Shariah Law comes not from man but from God and no man has the right to add to it or remove from it.

Sorry about your loss of faith and good luck to you.

Why can't I? I believe in freedom of speech, of course, I agree, sometimes people are just looking for trouble. But sentence to death? Surely you jest.
Are you sure that Sharia Law comes from God?
If the Bible proves the existence of God, then comic books prove the existence of Superman.Again, please, I do not mean to be offensive or insulting, I just want to be honest and straightforward.

 

[tim098]

Slumber, from they way you phrase your posts, it's obvious you aren't stupid. And since you aren't stupid, it should be pretty easy to realise that religious debates especially online, never ever get anywhere.

Sure, different parties' points of view are sounded, and points of argument are knocked down on both sides. But ultimately the end result is little, if there is one at all.

So yeah, no point discussing such a thing, especially since it is frowned upon by the Singaporean Online Society.

Also if I am not wrong, only extremist states practise Shariah Law. I am not sure of this, please correct me if I am wrong because I am not Muslim and I only half remember reading it somewhere. I personally FULLY disagree with Shariah Law, but those born into living under such a circumstance just have their lives made out like that.

On a side note, I think Arab girls are the most beautiful female people in existence!

 

[desdinova]

As ur name suggests...u r, in a state of slumber...u r not being honest or straightforward bro as u suggests...look at wat u typed and u r being INSULTING and OFFENSIVE...

U said that "since I'm a Malay, I feel very disgraced and shamed of such laws"..only MALAYS are MUSLIMS? get ur facts...

U said "It's like we were not given to think by ourselves what is right and what is wrong, instead we have to follow some book an arab guy wrote in a cave a long time ago( i'll get beheaded for saying fer sure)"
- GOD (if u believe in whichever god) gave u BRAIN to think wats right and wrong...the QURAN is a guide since YOU cant think for urself
_ MUHAMMAD S.A.W. (peace be upon him) didnt wrote the QURAN in a cave (or maybe your monkey brain and eyes saw him wrote it in there?)

Religion is something u BELIEVE in...theres nothing to PROVE

HOW DO YOU NOE YOUR MOM GAVE BIRTH TO YOU? BY A PIECE OF PAPER (birth cert)? You have to BELIEVE that she gave birth to you...just like how you HAVE TO BELIEVE in RELIGION and GOD

 

[futures]

Malaysia practises it. But they're not extremist. That aside, religion itself has evolved over the centuries. Many things such as such said fundamentalist mentalities are relevant to the time that they were conceived.

A good example to illustrate my point would be the Bible. The bible says, if it is your right hand that causes you to sin, cut off your right hand. But is it meant literally? The understanding of this is that it highlights the gravity of sin, warning us against it. It doesn't mean that you go and chop of your own limbs. Remember, God is forgiving. In the old testament, Moses gave up on the people that he was leading out of Egypt because of their sin. That resulted in the Commandments, however harsh it was given. But it had its purpose then. Its relevant too today yes, but people think progressively, so you have to take that into context as well.

Likewise, religious behaviour is often taken to extremes by people whose ideals and rationalities have been obscured by their own deluded interpretations. Many Muslim Scholars will say that true Jihad is not the terrorism that you witness on the news. It is the journey within in order to attain purity. So getting to my point - certain acts we witness is not representative of the religion in question. Try to look at the bigger picture, and understand the historical perspectives that are relevant even today. Such things all contribute to what we see today. So judge as you may, but please judge fairly.

 

[vickomaniac]

Fantastic post, futures.

You're one of the very few people here who actually make sense.

 

[bobby]

Just like it is every person's right to choose his religion, it is his or her right to choose the extent to which he or she practices it. Corporate punishment turns religion into a tool for propaganda (which interestingly also led to the spread of many other religions, including Christianity). It is sad that a simple faith in God has been twisted and warped by the hands and words of humans as a means of judgment and punishment onto others. God is good, Man is not.