something worth rewatching

I like how Marty made the song become his.

I find that... the girl's take was really repetitive. All the running up and down up and down up and down... I could last the song... I skipped around after a minute and then closed it.
 
The girl was basically performing SRV's version... both of which don't need another guitarist as a backup... That's what I like about it. It stands well alone. SRV creates chordal solos within that chords structure, unlike most guitarists these days who add a melody around the chords. Vai himself said it was a dying art, that died mostly with Hendrix and SRV... I think today, only EJ still does it.
 
The girl was basically performing SRV's version... both of which don't need another guitarist as a backup... That's what I like about it. It stands well alone. SRV creates chordal solos within that chords structure, unlike most guitarists these days who add a melody around the chords. Vai himself said it was a dying art, that died mostly with Hendrix and SRV... I think today, only EJ still does it.
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I can't get the SRV chordal approach... isn't it repetitive? In the blues context - same notes up and down... I enjoy SRV's insane vibrato which is really nice... but the notes just keep repeating in the same patterns.

Vai sort of.. did a tribute to this art. Its in his Alien Love Secrets album... the Boy from Manhattan or something.
 
I can't get the SRV chordal approach... isn't it repetitive? In the blues context - same notes up and down... I enjoy SRV's insane vibrato which is really nice... but the notes just keep repeating in the same patterns.

Vai sort of.. did a tribute to this art. Its in his Alien Love Secrets album... the Boy from Manhattan or something.
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The Boy From Seattle. Yup, that's the track from Vai. written as a tribute to Jimi Hendrix. :lol:

It's not repetitive if you know what you're listening for... Many of us are used to one note solos. When I mean one note, I meant that only one note is played at one time. Or at the most, dyads. But when you're using chords to make a melody, it's still certain notes you'd want to accentuate. THAT's skill. That's something SRV, EJ and even Eric Clapton manage to do. Listen to the intro from "Nobody knows you when your'e down and out" from EC Unplugged. That's a chordal melody right there. Most people would dismiss this style because they don't really quite get it. But when you do, you'll find that it's irreplacable.

Let me put it this way. It's basically playing the SAME melody many different times over and over and over, but each time, in a different way. Try doing that yourself. How many ways can you play one melody? :wink:

Actually, it's a very Jazz thing... Check this out:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wnjR6MM38k
 
Whitestrat, v nice explanation there...I liked that. It's a real skill that I think quite a lot of ppl fail to appreciate..and no, it doesn't take someone to be able to do it to appreciate it. These talents take 5 notes and do wonders with them, playing them differently each time, saying different things.
 
Well, I do think I understand chordal soloing and stuff..

Point is.. I fail to see where blues has taken it.

Now, don't get me wrong - I respect blues but I don't get it - just like some don't get rap.

However, I can perfectly understand the blend of jazz blues. Fusion blues. I understand that... I see variety, I see an extension over the same boring 6 note blues scale. Which is what Whitestrat got - its a very jazz thing but to me, oversimplified and brought down a level to blues.

I see blues as an almost primitive form of music. Its not complex in terms of technic but its profound in the manner its brought across. There are blues players I've heard and went wow, I'd shed a tear (which I do if its great music). Then there are blues players which I go... okay, next. And the latter happens way too often.

I had some SRV CD.. some live thing... yeah, I can hear an intense outpouring of soul and great feel! But I can't listen thru out... its boring. Like the yngwie of blues so to speak... great vibrato, great feel but just falling flat in terms of variety.

I have a BB King live CD... on one song, an instrumental, he plays this one friggin note that sent shivers down my spine. 1 note. 1 note and I replayed that section again and again - amazing. I skipped the rest of the songs.

Is it a curse that blues is overly repetitive with sprinkles of brilliant play in-between?

Then it comes to the chordal solos - yeah, Clapton does it nice. He isn't afraid to utilise notes out of the blues scales. Joe Bonnamassa too.


Again, I don't dismiss the style in the blues context - I seek to understand it. On a deeper level... I appreciate the answers given but they are things I've already thought thru.



Regarding playing the same melody over and over again - my preference is varying timing, usage of harmony, key changes and passing notes ala fusion to do the job.

What I see in blues is usually, up and down up and down like shredding.
 
I see blues as an almost primitive form of music. Its not complex in terms of technic but its profound in the manner its brought across.
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That's absolutely correct. Problem is, like some of the stuff by Robert Johnson, you just can't quantify it. Yes, you can tab it down, but show it to a classical student, and he'll tell you it's rubbish. So, you're right. It's very subjective to the player AND the listener. :D

I have a BB King live CD... on one song, an instrumental, he plays this one friggin note that sent shivers down my spine. 1 note. 1 note and I replayed that section again and again - amazing.
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Sounds a bit like the instrumental section of "The Thrill Is Gone". Then again, BB King to me is very much a one note wonder. :roll:

I had some SRV CD.. some live thing... yeah, I can hear an intense outpouring of soul and great feel! But I can't listen thru out... its boring. Like the yngwie of blues so to speak... great vibrato, great feel but just falling flat in terms of variety.
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Don't get me wrong. You're not wrong in saying this. I liken your experience to mine of listening to Kenny Wayne Shepherd. Technically good blues-wise, but tiring to listen to. You can't sit thru a CD without taking a few breaks. That's why I still prefer Clapton... Heh. :wink:

I think the reason why SRV was so respected, was mainly because he could do all this stuff, and REMAIN blues. And still, no one else in his genre did this before. So he was a pioneer. Look at KWS now. He's seen as a clone. That's sad man. The guys got chops... But not much of it was his. He's like SRV, with the same wrath, but less finesse. And you know what? After a while, he plays the same licks in different solos on different songs. It's like he memorised only licks... But nevertheless, he's still good to listen to once in a while, now that SRV is dead.

But the true blues greats were able to get around that monotonous pentatonic playing by not repeating themselves. Clapton is one example. His stuff with cream was just amazing. Non-pentatonic (Sunshine Of Your Love, Wrapping Paper, I Feel Free), yet very blues-orientated. Muddy Waters did it. Johnny Winter got it. Even Jimi Hendrix got it right. SRV is one of those who straddled in-between, and people loved him for it.

But again, Blues is pretty much about playing the same thing in many different ways. I always like to use EC as an example, because he just does it so well. His solos on Wonderful Tonight or Old Love on 24 nights was it. It wasn't technically brilliant, but his musical timing, accentuation and phrasing was so good, it was extremely touching to listen to. AND it was pentatonic... Heheheh...

That's why "Clapton is God". :wink:
 
Haha, dude, this is WHY I enjoy DISCUSSING music. Opening minds and exchanging views. I enjoy this. Thanks for taking the time to yak!

Your quote on BB King yields quite the truth no? Magazines always quote BB King as the dude who can decimate you emotionally with 1 note.


KWS? KWS is quite something - you would be right to say its tiring to listen to. I've got this compilation CD and he guests a solo take amongst other guitarists, now he was very refreshing to listen to. Very. He stood out from amongst the more "traditionalist" blues playing. Much like how Yngwie would be... but listening to 1 CD full of him... I got one of KWS's CDs, I can't sit thru it and I keep thinking, wait - wasn't this used in another song? When listening to his solos there.

You said "It's like he memorised only licks..." - I agree. Its mechanical sounding - repeat to taste kind of playing.

I find it very interesting how you see "getting around monotonous pentatonic playing". Interesting.

Yes yes, I like it when its blues but not etched in stone upon the 6 notes of the blues pentatonic and ONLY that.

Johnny Winter! Yes yes! If not for his playing - its the hair. ;)

For some reason, SRV struck me as very very blues pentatonic based. And yes, he had the fury, almost angry, almost frustrated manner... which he brought over via his music. However, methinks that could be his... "draw back"? I mean, how many different ways are there of emulating this kind of energies?

I see Clapton's solo on Wonderful Tonight, the live one, that ONE, as a near perfect example of a beginner's solo with a master's touch. Its deceptively simple but profound in the emotive aspect. This one where the fingers come in... where the music accentuates the lyrics, the backing compliments the solo, the vocals (Clapton's) brutally honest. It all falls into place. But eh, got major scale inside leh. Not pure. ;)

I don't see pentatonics as a curse but it often becomes a guitarist's snare - locking him in the same roundabout of licks, to be reused till the cows come mooing (and I am doing so)...

Speaking of which, whitestrat sir, Larry Carlton is coming to Singapore. You going?
 
i got one joe bonnamassa CD ... its not bad... but alittle too traditional blues for me. prefer his more energetic pieces. will prob order in more of his CDs and DVDs if i can find any... wanna order together?

and a big thank you for that korean girl guitar playing video... love those smooth jazz licks , im gonna go home.. and learn some of those tasty licks before i sleep tonight. i hope i can concentrate and just look at her fingers and not her legs :)
 
and a big thank you for that korean girl guitar playing video... love those smooth jazz licks
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I went back to relisten to the korean girl's playing in its entirety - I don't recall anything jazz? Was that a typo? If you did hear some jazz, I would love to hear it too, really... got the timings?
 
Haha, dude, this is WHY I enjoy DISCUSSING music. Opening minds and exchanging views. I enjoy this. Thanks for taking the time to yak!
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Heh... For some reason, not many people have the patience or the willingness to share and discuss. Most of the time, it's "I told you so". Heh. :lol: I'm glad you don't think like that. :wink:

KWS? KWS is quite something - you would be right to say its tiring to listen to. I've got this compilation CD and he guests a solo take amongst other guitarists, now he was very refreshing to listen to. Very. He stood out from amongst the more "traditionalist" blues playing. Much like how Yngwie would be... but listening to 1 CD full of him... I got one of KWS's CDs, I can't sit thru it and I keep thinking, wait - wasn't this used in another song? When listening to his solos there.
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You know, I'd have thought the same thing. He'd be quite refreshing in the world of mainstream blues players. Then I realised it's very much SRV, less raw talent, and not as creative. And I once put all 4 albums into the changer in my car... I went nuts after the 2nd CD. whahaha... 8O sort of like hearing Malmsteen on and on and on... It's good once in a while, but not for long durations.

I find it very interesting how you see "getting around monotonous pentatonic playing".
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Ok. Think about this bit. Most pentatonic patterns are vertical or diagonal on the fretboard right? But I remember playing some stuff from some blues artists, like Clapton, Buddy Guy, even SRV, where that same pattern wasn't effective for more than 2 bars each time. The patterns had to be changed every 2 bars, and often you needed augmented notes and even different modes in order to improvise over that passage. It was basically, "hear the melody in your head, and play. Ignore the scales and what makes sense." And these greats? They knew NOTHING about music theory!!!

I couldn't even remember what songs these were, but I remember playing along with my ipod, and getting lost each time they changed patterns... whahahaha... :wink:

Yes yes, I like it when its blues but not etched in stone upon the 6 notes of the blues pentatonic and ONLY that.
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Well, take a listen to Robert Cray's "Phonebooth" solo. It's the same 6 notes, BUT each one played so well, the notes MEAN something. I tried replicating the solo, but I suck at it... :roll: :wink:

I see Clapton's solo on Wonderful Tonight, the live one, that ONE, as a near perfect example of a beginner's solo with a master's touch.
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I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find a beginner come up with that. It's not even the touch I'm referring to. It's also the choice of notes. Another of his such solos that comes to mind, is the one in "It's probably me" with Sting. THAT solo... THAT tone... Makes me want to burn my guitars and become a tambourine player... whahaha... :lol: :cry:

It all falls into place. But eh, got major scale inside leh. Not pure.
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Simi major scale? The whole song is in G Major wat?!?!?!?!?!!?!? :roll:

Nah.. not going to Larry Carlton. Not my thing. I did go to Buddy Guy though. Great show... if only a bit short. :x
 
daniel, ur knowledge/exposure to the blues is more than I thought, from the past discussions on blues on this forum hurhur. Cool that u do listen to blues music.

What are your thoughts on John Mayer and his bluesy playing? Personally I see him as one who gets around monotonous pentatonic scale playing very well.
 
Whitestrat (for some reason, I'm inclined to call you whitesnake) Sir, no worries - I enjoy discussing, talking and sharing thoughts about music. That's one of the ways we all learn and frankly, if anyone were to not be interested in doing such things? I'd question his interest in that music. I'm glad to know another person who's into the sounds... especially if its a different genre because lets face it - muso guitarists are stuck up egotistical creatures who spend 1/2 their plugged up with a plank of wood by their side! Gotta open up.

I dig what you say about "ignore the scales and what makes sense" and play what you hear in your head. I think this is a double edged sword... on one hand, it can potentially stick you to the corner of repetitive-ness because you're holed up in your own limited musical ideas... I like this example, e.g. if you aren't used to singing African traditional tunes, you just wouldn't come up with music like that!
But in the good way - it can help people break out of a i-don't-know-where-to-go-now rutt or just break the boring cycle. And you don't need theory to do that... just a good ear.

I like it when the solo flows with the chords - sort of what you are saying that the "pattern changes every 2 bars" - because I feel that this style of solo-ing, truely brings out the backing chords and really, shows how good/bad you are at improvising. Its bloody tough!!!


I hear you on your example of that 6 note solo... and dude, trust me, if more people around can do what Mr Cray does - injecting such meaning in each note - I wouldn't be whining about it here. :D
Most of the time, its like there's some sort of "reverential" emphasis placed upon the sacred blues pentatonic... and the players never venture out of it! I mean, like in earlier postings, blues can be blues regardless of the scales/notes used no?
Heck, I heard BB King use harmonic minor... eat your heart out yngwie.
And that's my grape...

You know, sometimes, its also the backing band that makes the solo stand up? I mean, it could be "just" the pentatonics, but if the band's backing you up with colourful chords, maybe lending you that fusion vibe? The solo could sound a heck of a lot better.


Eh eh, tis truth! Wonderful Tonight live, the solo, got major scale (notes outside the pentatonic) inside lah. Really!
 
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