NKF article

hmmz ...

isnt NKF limited to the charity rule that states no more than $1 out of every $5 donation can be used for administration funds? meaning staff salaries ,administration costs etc

a more cynical take on the NKF scandal here.

we have the patron of the NKF , mrs goh chok tong still standing by the NKF. the NKF is apparently in a state of semi quasi national run and semi quasi private charity organisation and semi-quasi business operations.

mr.TT durai pays taxes to the IRS. the IRS would have known the details of his paycheck long before the recent media expose on his accounts. the board of directors on any organisation serves as an counterbalance to prevent the CEO from exploiting any inherent excessive benefits or ethical misjudgement in the line of duty . the NKF board did nothing to stop it and further approved additional benefits.

3 additional years of reserves versus 260 million in the kitty and over 26 years of reserves assuming a consistent rate of NKF spending. no way such a simple fact can go unnoticed by the various government bodies that cooperate with the NKF.

about turns and changes in public policy. the blatant lying and denial of first class tickets , gold taps , insufficent reserves. the act of covering up. the betrayal of public trust by a public organisation.

recent years the media has featured articles about growing viewer and donor fatigue over the increasing amount of charity shows and the number of programmes that feature the poor , the needy and the ill all desperatly pleading for money.

TT durai is a trained lawyer , with experience of being called to the bar and specialising in defamation cases , according to the ST report on his background. he practiced in england and later in singapore.

the timing , the circumstances , the occurences , appear deeper than they seem.

how is it possible that TT durai ? a trained lawyer , go to court with such explicit details concerning his pay , perks and other normally confidential facts potentially being exposed and potentially damaging ? how could one so bright and brilliant, growing and managing such a complex body that covers national healthcare policies in terms of dialysis , cancer and children's dialysis overlook such critical flaw in judgement ?

i dont know, it may seem baseless , but i feel the NKF incident is a much deeper incident involving realpolitik. if NKF were a full corporate business , like CAAO, the CPIB would have been called in. Deception of shareholder's interest in the company is fraud after all . why hasnt the CPIB been called in on the NKF ? given that it is publicly accountable to its donors ?
 
Hi STARS,

great mind, critical mind. Keep it up. You are deeper than what you appear to be. Sometimes it's better to wait for things to happen first.

BTW, thanks for helping me with the flyers at Raffles City. It worked.
 
i do think 25k per month is ok for a CEO but i'm not too sure what's the 12-months bonus for when we're talking about a NON-PROFITABLE ORGANISATION.... i'm ok with 1 month bonus cause i do think NKF did well to organise BIG events for donation but 12 months... mmm... just don't feel right. partly i don't think the CEO is at fault too as the bonus and salary is approve by the board. just wondering how much the board member is getting..... i just feel uneasy when i heard 12 months bonus for them when people who work normally outside in a very profitable company only gets the max 6 months. 8O
 
Silencer said:
i and yes, there is an unspoken etiquette on most forums, which compells a person to respond in a logical, non-combative manner.


of course. almost everyone knows that. I fully agree and abide by that.

P.S: did anyone personally attack you for your post? Can't see any. maybe you can be less wary.
 
HeartRockSingapore said:
A chairty must be non profit..period. There is no shareholders in a non-profit outfit. It is a legal term. So the argument goes that in charities do generate revenue and surpluses and thus it is not non-profit is INACCURATE.

agreed with your legal definitions. shareholders aren't an issue. it doesn't affect this argument. however charities are allowed to invest the money to "roll". A simple test of logic will show that building 200million in surpluses AFTER running costs in simply impossible, even tops 10million SGD in donation a year. We haven't even factored in cost of the building, maintainence etc. a profit org, would be the CEO and the board would be allowed to 'cash their stocks' in and liquidize the company. however, what the ceo is doing is simply drawing a monthly salary. (of course, i still stand by the fact that the fleet or cars, gold taps are wrong.)

what's the best way to do charity? to simply rely on donations every month? or to use these donations, to roll more money to be channelled back into the charity? mrs goh is justified in saying 600K a year is peanuts. It really is, if you singlehandedly build up reserves to excesses of 200million, and continuing to do so.

HeartRockSingapore said:
Charities Vs Business (profitable or otherwise)

i agree with you again, but let's take into account the viability of a private, non governmental charity org if money isn't spent recruiting and retaining private sector talents. there's a reason why the NKF is the most successful local charity org, when so many other charity orgs (govt or non govt) have been struggling.

NKF has been offering dialysis at a subsized rate to singapore, and setting up plenty of area specific dialysis centers. all these take money. monetary reward, is justifiable. Consider the alternative model to NKF. NKF would be like any other local charity organization that's non-govt. Useless, small, narrow-reaching. would this really be in the best interest of the ppl who need it?

HeartRockSingapore said:
Salaries and bonuses

i believe you've taken on a misconception here, when you say that private charities should take on the core charity services. Welfare of the people, should ALWAYS, be in the hands of the government. The government should provide the necessary systems to its people, because that is the role of the govt, anywhere in the world. The role of private charities however, is to provide support services in areas where the government cannot viably provide for its people. This then forms a comprehensive social protection network for the combined benefit of all 3 parties involved.

to place burden on private charities by demanding they place attention on providing core services, (in the case of NKF, a scale of the entire nation) is simply unreasonable, and unfair. most people with enough money (like NKF) to do that, wouldn't even bother with charity. (we have to be realistic here.) To receive reward to that effect for providing a core service, is fair. nobody, charity or not, should be made to take up the duty of a Government of a Country.

HeartRockSingapore said:
So, do one peg the officers salaries against the core charitable services it renders to the needy or against how good it can dig into the less needy's pocket. Let the integerity of the board decide..

it is slightly myopic to reckin that placing temasek, GIC and action for aids in the same league is impossible. Temasek uses money from the people meant for medicial fees, sustainance and other health/old age/retirement costs for investments, to roll the money many times over, benefitting both the contributer and the country. Overall, the money increases. NKF uses the money garnered from donations to do the exact same thing. Both corps take a cut (sizeable to what peasents like us earn), but "peanuts" compared to the amount of money they have reaped. It is not reasonable to ask NKF to stop upon raising the amount of money they need. Everybody needs surplus, to tide over unforgiving, unexpected times.

to make more while the going gets good is only fair.

--------------


to summurize. charity is best done when run commercially, and renumerated commercially as well. this is a practical world we live in. holding on to ideals such as 'free charity' or 'sacrifice' only exist in fairytales. im' not saying there totally aren't any such saints. there are.

but if we were to wait for this saint, NKF patients would have died many times over.

put yourself in T.T. Durai's shoes. most singaporeans im' sure, would make the same decision to accept a 600K pay bestowed by the board.
 
HeartRockSingapore said:
SILENCER,..I see you have a lot of things against the government. I chose to deliberately left that out in my previous post.

hmmm to answer your question vaiyan, this is a good example of a post starting to get personal in nature. it is, however a better standard then what we read normally on forums.

these kind of posts could very easily get me in trouble, by being vague/ambigious. saying things like "i see you have alot of things against the govt" would no doubt draw the wrong kind of attention.

--------------

let me clarify my stand. i do not think either (or both) the Government and NKF are wrong. i believe the NKF is wrong in installing golden taps and maintaing a private fleet of cars. I would say the same thing if i learn PM Lee did the same.

I've always maintained the view that the Government of Singapore lacks the proper PR skills. I firmly believe most things they do are in the interest of the nation, and they have made good decisions in the past. Singapore's excellent track record is testament to that.

however their PR requires more attention, because their actions are misrepresented by their unwillingness to divulge information, and twisted words through the citizenry from lack of wholesome information. simply, their PR sucks, and i'm not afraid to say it.

i approach each and every issue individually, taking into account that the government isn't a single body, but a multi member, large ruling party parlimentry one.

----------------------------

my only desire is to see the betterment and overall standard of our country rise. and if i have to disagree with the government, NKF, (insert org body here) to do that, i will. but i never go into an argument with a set of pre conceived ideas. Every case has to be judged on its own merits.

HeartRockSingapore, i hope you understand this, and a clarification to your statement would be much appreciated.
 
bernardgoh said:
i do think 25k per month is ok for a CEO but i'm not too sure what's the 12-months bonus for when we're talking about a NON-PROFITABLE ORGANISATION....

Been reading this thread juz wanna hilite...not onli it's a NON-PROFITABLE ORG but it's supposed to be fer CHARITY...so i guessed that's what sparks the angst. * juz 2 cents of my totz *
 
silencer, well said.... i agreed with you in all aspects based on your last few post... still that's only our personal view tot.... others might not think alike. :) different people have different thinking.... :)
 
A clarification that you need...

in case your accusation of insinuation, my statement was in literal response to your posting. Do I want to accuse you out of no basis and put you into trouble? Why should I? Are you afraid? Why should you? Is this personal? You said it is! I substantiate my statement with your postings, could you substantiate your statements of what you said of the government?
 
Silencer said:
HeartRockSingapore said:
SILENCER,..I see you have a lot of things against the government. I chose to deliberately left that out in my previous post.

hmmm to answer your question vaiyan, this is a good example of a post starting to get personal in nature.


yea, but do you pre-empt these personal comments by removing your post even before anything happens?
remember, you took your post off before HeartRockSingapore made this comment. It's self-censorship bordering on paranoia.
haha oh well...

I'm off to the gig! Cheers.
 
cool it.... a good country needs both side of people, the pro-government and the anti-government (not really anti but this group of people speak their view... that's all) people to create a balance of the FORCE. :) , Government should always have a open ear to listen to what the anti-goverment forces is saying... and if it's good, adopt it. if not, explain to the mass why is not. No Country or Human is perfect, if there's no negative comments, we can't improve. for me, i always like to stand in the middle of the 2 forces so i can improve by taking what's good and reject the what's not. :) i think is quite hard to judge what's right or what's wrong here cause i think this is just a forums that everyone speak our minds out based on their thinking. i do speak my mind out too and ofcause sometime it might look silly but hey, that's me. :) everyone might be silly sometime. even the mighty NKF regret sueing SPH after just 2 days in court. :) ...eeerrrr.... gone too far now... hehehe.. :) come back to the topic.... just cool it lah, is very difficults to change one thinking in the forums, everyone grow up differently so is nature that everyone have a different views. that's all. :)
 
woah... HeartRockSingapore, go easy man. we do not anti but simply give comment on issues.
 
HeartRockSingapore said:
A clarification that you need...

in case your accusation of insinuation, my statement was in literal response to your posting. Do I want to accuse you out of no basis and put you into trouble? Why should I? Are you afraid? Why should you? Is this personal? You said it is! I substantiate my statement with your postings, could you substantiate your statements of what you said of the government?

Firstly, i'm not sure whether or not you want to get me in trouble or whether or not you want to accuse me without basis. i'm just surprised you 'accused' me of being anti-government.

I'm afraid of being taken out of context. everyone is.

its personal, of course it this! but what does it being personal have to do with anything else? its just my views.

anyone can substantiate what i say. simply read the straits times, economist or any good newspaper. the salaries of scholars, civil servants, even the PM isn't a secret.

James: Thanks. :)

Vaiyen: i took it off not because i'm afraid of being quoted. i took it off to avoid conflicts that are personal in nature, ilke this this.

suddenly, its not about my logical arguments anymore. its about me being anti-government... this is exactly the point i was trying to make when i took my post down. most people simlpy can't judge the case based on its merit.

HeartRockSingapore: could you specify what exactly in my post led you to believe i'm anti-government? i really would like a detailed clarification to this matter.
 
Wow. 4 days away and THIS happened!

Just to clarify one point. NKF is not a "non-profit" organisation. For some time now, they have changed to a "not-for-profit" organisation. Although the change is subtle, it does imply that they CAN earn a profit.

Although I knew about their non-transparency from sources (sorry, cannot reveal who - don't want to get sued), and I never donated since then (for many years now), I still think they play an important part in health care. The Singapore health system can NEVER supply the dialysis need for the number of kidney failure patients NKF is taking care of. If NKF closes down, there will be a big disaster overnight as more than a thousand kidney failure patients will have no dialysis and they will eventually die.

Despite me not liking their strategies, I cannot deny that we need them. This is a tricky situation especially for our Health Minister. We have to tread very carefully and to ensure we don't throw the baby out with the bathtub water.
 
Non-transparency to a certain degree is a good thing. It helps to get real work to be carried out minus the red-tape and burecrecy.

Being too transparent, will result in hampered progress. Sometime, where the action is, there is some "fluidity", helps lubricate the process. (If you are mature enough, you will know what I mean when I say "fluid")

I think the most important idea is to strike a BALANCE.
 
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