Icelandic & Singapore music scenes - Why They Can and We Can't

[rottenramone]

oh yeah, time magazine also featured chou pi jiang, analog girl and paul ponnadurai before, albeit at different times.

they all played big shows before, just that we were not aware.

 

[RoRK]

cultural relativism is a lovelovelovelovelove when we're a mix of many cultures combined with a soul destroying pragmatism. Just remember that to get to the multi platinum level, the audience has to relate to you, for you to embody the things that they want to be. Make a guess whether being asian vs anything else is going to be a plus point.

It's music leh. I don't see the importance of listeners needing or wanting to relate to a singer's ethnicity or skin colour. Unless of course the music and its lyrics embody cultural nuances.

If it was acting, then yeah, perhaps. because of the vicarious nature of watching movies.

I do appreciate your concerns but just like looks, one's skin colour is bollocks when it comes to factoring in whether one can make it or not in the music industry.

RoRK also wants to add that, Singapore, for obvious reasons has to be the starting point but eventually folks have to leave here to make it big.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

hehe, did you guys realise that this thread really justified something from a thread not too long ago in the forum here and if my memory serve me right, one of the thing which roninriot mentioned, from the article posted..

something like... instead of doing what we want to, we tend to think more of why we cant while others can.

So, i still say, at the rate our views go on, we will have enough idea, for our greatest hits, concept album bout us and why we cant, they can. Oh, it will be a follow up to the 1st one.

This time round, i will supply my modulated snoring sound coupling with my tossing sound on my teelam, filled with sadness of modern singapore worker who job suck me dry like my partner asking me to lai 5 time per night while struggling to wake up and face work the next morning.

 

[snuffleupagus]

Maybe because majority of Icelanders do it for the love of music and majority of the Singaporeans do it because they want to make it big.

Maybe Icelanders have lesser options when it comes to their career locally as compared to Singaporeans who have more options coupled with the fact that there is greater peer pressure here to attain status as early as possible in life. So music is more of a pastime rather than a means to survive.

Maybe Icelanders are more cultured compared to Singaporeans who are after all still caught in a major identity crisis living in a relatively new nation of mixed cultures.

Maybe blaming the whiteys for everything ain't the best way to solve your problems in life.

 

[betsybug]

OK, 'cher is back. Sorry, was away from the Net. So, class how are we doing? RoRK please sit down and behave yourself. dir, stop eating school paste.
[/JOSHING]

Let me say something first about definition of "making it" and "what genres" and related questions/issues. I was really intrigued by sage's suggested docu film, and what it says about one small country's musical output and impact. So, my "come-from" on this issue is really music in all forms, languages, and genres (i.e. it's not specific). Impact-wise, I am thinking along the lines of brand/product recall such that when you say Jamaican music, someone instantly recalls reggae, and if you say Icelandic music, someone responds with Bjork/Sugarcubes.

There are valid and interesting points/arguments raised earlier. But my point with the Icelandic (or indeed any other) comparison is that one can always argue why Iceland (or Jamaica or South Africa) should not be so music mad, so successful, so impactful. And conversely we can argue why indeed Singapore should be more successful:

- Good education
- Command of English
- Relatively rich
- Good availability of products, and relatively cheap
- Plugged into the world- digitally and physically (travel-wise)
- Good brand internationally
- Wonderful mash of cultures to tap into
- Small and therefore easy to mobilise people/resources
and so on and so on

I note that for each of the above, there's a reverse argument, for example, Singapore is small, so market is small. But that is exactly the nub of the argument - something can be both plus or minus.

If we just look at things as only minuses (Iceland has a lot of "minuses"; Jamaica, oh man their English is even less intelligible than Singlish), we will not get anywhere, and fast. But if we get rocking within our island, people (especially from outside our little isle) will be drawn to the fun and want to be part of it. Then we will be successful (whatever that may mean to various people).

 

[betsybug]

Maybe because majority of Icelanders do it for the love of music and majority of the Singaporeans do it because they want to make it big.

Snuffle, we cross-posted, but your point is kinda simpatico with my argument - we are too obsessed with Step 10 when where we are now is actually Step 1 (some might even say 0).

From my work experience, in Singapore, we tend to plan to the nth degree even when we haven't started anything. Philip Yeo (that rather blunt civil servant) said recently we tend to over-plan while he tends to trust his guts and instinct. IMO, there is a lot of truth in this - by the time we mapped out in great detail how the game will go, the rules have already changed.

If, say, James (I take a convenient easily recognised example; I don't need any brownie points) had sat down in 1999 and listed down all the downsides to starting soft, I don't think we will be having this forum and this discussion (!).

Just plan enough and mind the torpedoes!

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

heh, roninriot shud join in this thread. It wud be more interesting!

 

[betsybug]

Singaporeans who are after all still caught in a major identity crisis living in a relatively new nation of mixed cultures

But, but....that's exactly why we've got a lot more things to sing about, to be angsty, to be wracked with tears, to be hopeful, to be frustrated - all good ingredients in music cookery. Those Western countries? They are old tired countries with no steam left, in a rut culturally, dragged down by weighty history, and have generally lost the plot. How can they make good music? Pshaw!

So, i still say, at the rate our views go on, we will have enough idea, for our greatest hits, concept album bout us and why we cant, they can.

I'm with you there, Mr Patin, Pathen...but let me suggest a minor change - why not a soft concept album about living and loving in Singapore; songs about the plus and minus aspects, and the somewhere in between. Not Ra Ra Singapore (let PA and Kit Chan do that sort of thing. Sniff), but perhaps Wah Wah Singapore (wah can be good or bad lah).

 

[RoRK]

hehe! Sing songs about Singapore????? Like dengue?

The concept must be universal lah dey.

Like an underwater band. ORRRRRRRRRrrrrrrr a band that plays covers of the bestest rock songs but play these songs backwards! ORRRRRrrrrr ... oh wait, brb - my ice-cream is melting.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

heh, for the song, i think we can get fgl to come in as well. He did something which most of us didnt do, by wrting 5Cs ,back in the 80s with his band, shades. That song says a lot, round that time.

fgl!!! whereeeee are chooooooo, lai lai lai!!!

 

[snuffleupagus]

betsybug- good point about the mixed cultures thing. But if one should write songs about integration/social problems faced , the sedition act will swoop in faster than you can say " ...and the mee rebus sucks..."

I have always cringed at many of the songs written whether on television or by our local bands that include the word "singapore" in their lyrics. Its the same thing like when I hear a love song I get slightly bit grossed out when the cliche "i love yous" and "miss you so much" lyrics are used.

I think actually perhaps Singapore's music scene is doing fine, and hey, you are also guilty of acting out one of our most famous national traits, which is comparing ourselves to others all the time. Which is perfectly fine la.But it also means that nothing will be good enough.. heheh

I guess we should let nature take its course, let the scene build itself slowly, there are only so many Plateaus one can reach before they have no choice but to evolve and adapt...

Cheers!

 

[betsybug]

Like dengue?

If that is your choice of dope, sure why not? Maybe mosquito is an analogy for something else? The blood symbolises something being sucked? Why is this happening? What about the debilitated blood "donor"? Can go serious, or can go novelty song (haha funny kind) on this.

 

[betsybug]

betsybug- good point about the mixed cultures thing. But if one should write songs about integration/social problems faced , the sedition act will swoop in faster than you can say " ...and the mee rebus sucks..."

Snuffle my man, who asked you to go and write songs about organising riots in Orchard Road, or supporting a certain Mr Chee, or asking one race to do evil things to another race? You hah. The current problems are universal issues, life in a fast-paced, tropical, Asian, island-based, multicultural society is an easily identified with by a lot of people (depends of course how your write), globalisation, aging society, not enough babies, tough school life, sucides and suicidal thoughts, etc etc are rich areas.

Plus, songs like poetry is so multi-layered in meanings. Only you and your fans need to understand. Imagine Pract Crit in court - hahaha my tutors from long ago will laugh at the prospect.

<snip>you are also guilty of acting out one of our most famous national traits, which is comparing ourselves to others all the time.

*looks left and right*
Moi? But I am comparing in a good way i.e. to merely (!) illustrate the point that we don't have to be weighed down by the perceived minuses.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

heh, what if everybody wanna be bono and nobody wanna rock and roll, from the heart and thrusting energy from the waist down

 

[THOA]

We should all write and sing songs about Orang Lauts.

 

[betsybug]

What you mean, Pat?

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

nah, just random passing thought after reading randomly in a non directional constant expanding format instead of start stop progression with starting and ending. If it seem theres some meaning in there, its goot, if it seem like mindless words, its ok as well

 

[shinobi]

just to touch on what RR said,

in singapore, people don't speak english and as a global generalisation, neither do asians.
hence the english language market is non-existent

furthermore, the global english language market is dominated by USA and europe and maybe australia. are angmohs superior to asians? impossible to answer. but they do a heck of a lot better in the industry

no need to discuss trivial and implicit matters, or cloud your objectivity, or create a socially constructed reality to rationalise our own beliefs. just look at the facts

 

[soft]

betsybug

Interesting discussion.

The examples you listed (Irish, Jamaican, African) all have a distinct style and it kinda of evolved from their history/cultural.

This is the identity that we are still searching for. In fact, for every artiste/band, it is important to find their identity. This will become their marketability.

Currently, in Singapore, we have many good musicians/bands, but most of them 'sound' too similar to what is already out there. Thus, their competition for audience is too large.

* If I go Europe and open a restaurant, I would sell Char Kuey Tiao or Chicken Rice instead of steak or spaghetti. This is for business lah. But for music, hmmmm....

* Every year, it is a real challenge for Miss Singapore/Universe to find her 'national' costume.

 

[betsybug]

Well Shin, for me, I might react/think in two ways:

Firstly....
We can always find at least one reason why something will fail (people in Singapore have enough - maybe too much - book smarts for this). But how about coming up with reasons why we cannot but succeed?

Or secondly....
I can look at what you said and then say: WTH, let's do it anyway (not going to be bothered about perceived non-support from govt, language issues, marketing issues, producer and organiser issues and what not). As JFK said, let's do this thing not because it is easy, but because it is hard (words to that effect). And let's see where it takes us, and never mind if we don't "make it" (whatever that may mean), we are determined to have fun anyway.

We do too much navel-gazing.