how to solo and improvise

[snuffleupagus]

A good way to start solo-ing is to memorise easy solos note for note, and then use your basic theory knowledge that you have to figure out what scale is being used. Then you will understand how the scale is applied in that particular song in that particular key.

To me, for most Rock and blues solos, they are all just cliche licks that are borrowed from many greats. Which is a good thing too if you are able to blend everything you know and mix it up and come up with something original or unconventional yet listenable.

Good luck to ya'll

 

[vernplum]

I gotch $5. Can I have your autography?

Sold out. Sorry.

In the meantime, here's something I've been learning recently to improve my improv:

Lesson 8: ‘Pop ‘n’ Play’, swingin’, ‘be-bop’ and other stuff apostrophized or in quote marks. Gitbuddy’s Guitar Blog

 

[ShredCow]

That sounds rad. Interesting improvisation idea!

You bring up a good point - variation in rhythm can make a mundane solo sound refreshing again.

 

[Whitestrat]

just wondering who does solo here with little or no knowledge of scales?
i tried using scales , pentatonic ones, then the minor ones. Found it very restrictive..so in the end i didnt use them at all. As long as it sounds right together with the chords its ok?

You should read the book: Zen Guitar. Talks about playing guitar like a martial art mediatation process. You begin as a white belt, then you progress with time into a black belt due to use, experience and dirt, then with more time, the colour fades and the belt becomes white again with age, and the cycle repeats itself all over again.

I sort of began like that. I started learning chords and trying to listen to "notes" in a scale when solos were played. I learnt simple solos and figured out the scale patterns from those. I had no clue what they were called, and I actually still don't. I just remember patterns, and note qualities... Today, I just play what I hear in my head, and I pick my notes according to what I have already played, and what comes into my head next.

I sort of began with no knowledge of scales, to knowing what they were and how to use them back to not using them again conscientiously now. I went from thinking about my solos to NOT thinking about my solos... - Zen Guitar

 

[vernplum]

Recommend that all the aforesaid 'feel' players read this:

World’s most useless soloing advice - Part 1 Gitbuddy’s Guitar Blog

Read carefully though (if you can be bothered). The key point is that there's nothing wrong with playing by feel AT ALL. The argument which lies at the centre is that telling others who want to learn how to solo by telling them to 'play by feel' is essentially useless.

 

[ChanMin]

omg.. i just read all 7 pages.. and actually kinda understood the theory parts...

whats happening to me..??? ADAM WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MEEEE

 

[whiteboy]

how do i know which scales is the right one to use for the certain key of a song..all i know is for a G key song.. i can use the G major scale and the E minor pentatonic scales to fill in..i know there is still all the other scales but i not sure which one to use..

 

[Whitestrat]

how do i know which scales is the right one to use for the certain key of a song..all i know is for a G key song.. i can use the G major scale and the E minor pentatonic scales to fill in..i know there is still all the other scales but i not sure which one to use..

Look for the root note...

 

[stranger12]

Recommend that all the aforesaid 'feel' players read this:

World’s most useless soloing advice - Part 1 Gitbuddy’s Guitar Blog

Read carefully though (if you can be bothered). The key point is that there's nothing wrong with playing by feel AT ALL. The argument which lies at the centre is that telling others who want to learn how to solo by telling them to 'play by feel' is essentially useless.

I personally 'feel' (pun probably intended. heh) that learning all the notes, like which note to end on or which note to begin with or which are the right notes or the wrong notes is approaching the 'solo' in a highly counter productive manner.

My question is simple. So what if you know which notes should be in there? Does it help you 'solo' better?

Probably not.

That being said, I'd say, yes. Learn your scales. Learn your modes. But more importantly you have to listen. And listen closely. What are the great guitar soloist doing when they solo? No point in asking if this note is wrong or this note is right.. what does your ear tell you? Does it sound off?? If it does... trust your instinct.. It probably is wrong.. Keep on doing it.. You will have to condition yourself to remember the fretboard in a way you can never explain to someone else. Once you've reached that point where you can't explain what is happening.. you're that much closer to developing your own guitar playing identity...

Another point that I think is very relevant to this topic, is listening to the solo you are about to play... You must hear it, first, in your head.. Hear it in your head with the backing track.. Hear it in your head with the full band and the audience there as well.. The clearer you hear it in your head.. the easier it is to replicate it on the fretboard... Audiolize and Visualize... Once you do that.. all that hardwork you've put in practising your scales in every possible key will come out through that amp of yours...

Thus, getting back to the question.. how do you improvise? how do you solo? Practise what you must practise.. and when it's time to rock... seriously.. just feel it..

 

[Whitestrat]

My question is simple. So what if you know which notes should be in there? Does it help you 'solo' better?

Actually it does. But it's not exclusive...

It helps when you know what notes can be in there, so you can end up throwing everything that's meant to be in there, or take notes out and know that it's still ok.

Which brings me to another point of this post. What is improvising? It's not playing solos note for note or memorizing scales. It's about exercising your "voice". This is when phrasing actually comes into your playing most. If you improvise, you are supposed to CREATE something unheard of before. Anything goes. Even scratching your strings rhythmically...

It's about how proficient you are with your instrument that matters... Scales, Modes, etc etc... There's not one thing that's exclusive. EVERYTHING matters. It's a sum of all the parts that plays a huge influence in how good you are. Focusing one just one thing alone doesn't help.

Of course, we all got to start somewhere...

 

[vernplum]

My question is simple. So what if you know which notes should be in there? Does it help you 'solo' better?

Probably not.

Not being funny here, but this seems like a bit of an odd thing to say. I can't see how not knowing the notes puts you in a better situation.

seriously.. just feel it..

Again, another person widely missing the point. The crux of my argument is that in teaching beginners how to solo, some kind of system of communicating knowledge is necessary. That happens to be our musical system of scales, note names, chord names etc. Using these devices, I can explain to somebody the basics. Doesn't mean it's everything involved, but it's a way to pass on knowledge. Go look at what the original poster is asking for.

Now, you tell me - how do you explain to somebody how to play by feel? Not saying it can't be done, but nobody has stepped up to try it yet. A lot of people dismiss what I've said saying 'you don't need to know that stuff, just play by feel' but then they don't tell us how.

Go on - give it a try.

 

[Whitestrat]

Again, another person widely missing the point. The crux of my argument is that in teaching beginners how to solo, some kind of system of communicating knowledge is necessary. That happens to be our musical system of scales, note names, chord names etc. Using these devices, I can explain to somebody the basics. Doesn't mean it's everything involved, but it's a way to pass on knowledge. Go look at what the original poster is asking for.

Now, you tell me - how do you explain to somebody how to play by feel? Not saying it can't be done, but nobody has stepped up to try it yet. A lot of people dismiss what I've said saying 'you don't need to know that stuff, just play by feel' but then they don't tell us how.

Go on - give it a try.

I think most people who believe in this "feel" thing exclusively forget that phrasing is something that cannot be taught. If you just play by feel, yes, you can squeeze a melody out. But you're sort of limiting yourself. If you don't feel that you're limited, then good for you, but while that works for you, it doesn't work for everyone else.

Everyone need a guiding light. If you don't then you won't be in here asking or discussing this in the first place. And the guiding light is actually in the form of music theory. After you know your theory, you're equipped to experiment (improvise) on your own. Jam with people. Play what you "feel" is aurally correct. That's when you train your phrasing.

But if you don't know your theory and still go in, then fine. You'll still be able to play, but you'll be another run-of-the-mill major-harmonic minor/pentatonic player. Sure, you'll be fine with this, and good for you. But not everyone will remain satisfied. Those wildy learning and contributing from this thread would be those I think who aren't satisfied with just playing the same scales over and over again.

Yes, there are those who don't know these and still play amazingly. Eric Clapton famously comes to mind. But look where he excels? Blues. And that's where he stays, which is perfectly fine. The difference is, he's got oodles of talent. The rest of us mere mortals need to supplement the lack of that amount of talent with musical theory. Some people have that gift.

I don't.

If you do have such a gift, then you're truley blessed, and seriously don't need anyone's advice. But if you don't have such a gift, and refuse to see that you need this education, you're just sorely limiting yourself.

At the end of the day, to each his own. But one shouldn't come in here thinking that you know better than the next guy that he's wasting his time learning more about unlocking his potential. he could end up being the very next most important guitarist in our lives...

 

[Whitestrat]

Again, another person widely missing the point. The crux of my argument is that in teaching beginners how to solo, some kind of system of communicating knowledge is necessary.

Vern, while my previous post wasn't addressed to you, it was slightly related in defense of your points so far. :mrgreen:

But in response to your this particular post, I think the hardest thing to teach isn't the hard theory, but more the application of it. That depends on the student, and it's really the hardest thing to do online. Any such discussion or lessons I feel should be done in person, in a studio, with our guitars in hand...:mrgreen:

 

[vernplum]

I think the hardest thing to teach isn't the hard theory, but more the application of it.

Couldn't agree with you more - and there's no hard theory in this thread; it's fairly basic - know the notes in your key, know what chords you have in the key and what the notes are in those and off you go. This thread is (supposed) to be all about practical ways to get started, i.e application of the theory.

 

[midnite]

Improvise solos

Hi i believe before you be able to solo to properly shred, you need to know what you are doing,, for the basics i usually give out tips, forget about what you are playing right now, start from the basics, master you Do re mi far la ti do, start from g major basic scale, do lotsa pattern with it rememebr dont move on until your right hand picking be able to read your heart which means what ever pattern you desires your right hand manage to communicate well with the left hand vice versa. Once you can do it, the rest are quite easy, then you move on to other Gs to scale, once you mastered that then do As so on and so forth just memorise the patterns youd be good, just my suggestion but whatever you do start from slow then pick up speed(later part). "feel" applies when you do some bends, i love how Marty friedman and Jason becker bend the strings, check it out, it's Hawiian style+Jap tune. Other than that too many things to include, it's all about your hearing too! Being a guitarist you need to have sharp hearing especially to diff between flat and sharp notes.

Cheers!

 

[whiteboy]

Look for the root note...

huh? but Em pentatonic is not the root note of G right?

 

[Whitestrat]

huh? but Em pentatonic is not the root note of G right?

No, but the harmonic minor of a G Major key is...????????

E Minor...:mrgreen:

 

[stranger12]

Let's not discount the fact that I did agree with you that knowing your scales and all that theory jazz is of utmost importance as the first step. But then again shouldn't that be the first step in learning an instrument?

My main point here is NOT that we do not use theory or do not have to learnt what are the so called right notes to play.. but it is in trusting your own voice in your head and transmitting your 'feel'ing through your instrument.

So you've been practising your pentatonics, your major/minor, your harmonic/melodic, your pinch harmonics and whatever else... Knowing that alone, I personally feel is not going to allow you to improvise or solo in a musical context. ie with a band, with the radio playing or with the voices you hear in your head...heh, musicians all tend to be a lil looney lah...

We've got to train our minds to listen and hear for ourselves what's right.. and what works.. and what evokes the intended message you are sending out when you play... This in itself works on many levels and for sure, cannot be explained in a few simple posts on a forum.

Instead, what I am suggesting to guitarists who want to embark on this two-handed approach on wood and string wanking, is for them to make their own associations in their mind on what works and then stand and deliver a solo that is more meaningful than boastful.. Sure sweeping appegios, string skipping and the works all sound impressive.. but it'll all amount to nothing unless you leave the listener with something to remember...

If you know the notes to play, because you memorized some scalesm, you may just get away with it.. but I doubt that it'll have any staying power... Tell a story when you play, mean it when you play, and once again when it all comes together, you've got to tell it with some feeling. It's pretty much like a sales pitch.. when you see a customer and you truely believe in your product.. it exudes from your sales talk and you're likely to make the sale..

And for the record, I'm not here just to say this because I don't agree with you or because I want to be right.. I'm saying this because this is my mantra when I play the guitar and if you are willing, then listen..

Cheers!

 

[ShredCow]

Instead, what I am suggesting to guitarists who want to embark on this two-handed approach on wood and string wanking, is for them to make their own associations in their mind on what works and then stand and deliver a solo that is more meaningful than boastful.. Sure sweeping appegios, string skipping and the works all sound impressive.. but it'll all amount to nothing unless you leave the listener with something to remember...

Dood. That's all that REALLY matters. Look at the SOFT OM comments. Look at YouTube comments.

Remember - if you can't play it, you can't diss it.

Hehehe.

 

[Whitestrat]

So you've been practising your pentatonics, your major/minor, your harmonic/melodic, your pinch harmonics and whatever else... Knowing that alone, I personally feel is not going to allow you to improvise or solo in a musical context. ie with a band, with the radio playing or with the voices you hear in your head...heh, musicians all tend to be a lil looney lah...

I think we're talking about different facets of the same stone here...

Yup, you're right. Knowing all that theory isn't going to help you build your phrasing chops. That's what you're talking about. But NOT knowing all that isn't going to help either... But with those mind strangling concepts, there's at least some light at the end of the tunnel.

What you're saying is, put the guy in a car, throw him the key, and let him feel his way home without teaching him highway code and car handling dynamics. He's going to end up in a ditch after getting buzzed by a trailer at 150km/h and not know why... Sure, he could probably CRAWL his way home, but that would have been a lot easier with some education.

But, you're right. knowing all that won't turn him into an F1 driver, nor will learning all this theory turn anyone into Steve Vai or John Petrucci (who are actually theory monsters).

Let's not discount the fact that I did agree with you that knowing your scales and all that theory jazz is of utmost importance as the first step. But then again shouldn't that be the first step in learning an instrument?

Yes, learning scales and chords should be the first thing someone learns about an instrument, but that's hardly the way things go with guitars, isn't it? How many people you know studied the classical method of learning when they first began? No. We are mostly like cavemen when it comes to guitars. We learn what we want to learn, which is mostly 3 chords, and the ability to impress ourselves or a girl. We never fully understand the heavy theory backgrounds of the instrument. Did you? I sure didn't...

We've got to train our minds to listen and hear for ourselves what's right.. and what works.. and what evokes the intended message you are sending out when you play... This in itself works on many levels and for sure, cannot be explained in a few simple posts on a forum.

This is definately true and important. But I think what needs to be stressed is that actually, BOTH elements are equally important. Theory wthout application is useless, and learning to play without understanding is limiting. My point is that both should go hand in hand. One by itself is NOT ENOUGH.