Successful Bands

[MadWerewolfBoy]

yes, i agree that all the past successful bands in the world were one of the pioneers in what they did...

like deep purple, led zep, x japan, malmsteen, vai and many many others...

its hard to make it big if we're to be exact copy of any of them... this is the case for every1 around the world, not just here man...

if u've got the inspiration, jdi (just do it)...

the local scene here is maturaing quite fast, and, if it continues, i don't think it'll be long before a band makes it big globally... give say, another 20 years...

 

[Impromptu]

Re: Succesful Bands

Hey guys. Just wondering, what do u people think makes a Band in Singapore Successful and be able to capture the hearts of many singaporeans??!?!

It can be any quality. How can a Singaporean band be able to capture the hearts of all singaporeans and yet take on the global stage?

What is defined as "succesful" band in singapore? 1,000 copy, 5000 copy? 10,000 copy?

 

[panz3rr]

world recognition. every band's dream. how? up to the band. when?also up to the band. effort is all there is needed to become a successful band. after 5 years of going strong and not being able to go anywhere...give up and do something else. or make it a hobby. thats my opinion

 

[bockscar]

sing for National Day..

hahahahaha

 

[thebassplaya]

world recognition. every band's dream. how? up to the band. when?also up to the band. effort is all there is needed to become a successful band. after 5 years of going strong and not being able to go anywhere...give up and do something else. or make it a hobby. thats my opinion

you'll be surprised at how many singaporean musicians wan world recognition.... i ask afew ppl wad r their goals of startin the band. they would say 'make it big'.

how big?

'worldwide'....

 

[RoRK]

The fllowing are my thoughts on why it is difficult to near-impossible to make it big internationally for local musicians/bands.
1) They lack management and/or a solid producer
How to make it if there is no direction and experience to guide you?

2) They lack a solid line-up in the band
One not-so-good band member is going to spoil the show entirely.

3) They don't have enough good songs.
1 or 2 songs don't make a band.

4) Lack of commitment. Girlfriends and boyfriends are a drain to the time required to make it
Too many posers and not enough commitment. Many do not understand what it takes, from a commitment level to make it.

5) NS should be served by musicians when they're 55 not 19-21 when they're at their prime in terms of learning and improving

6) band members relucntant to move on with better bandmates - the paiseh mode of leaving their current lineup for something better

Just look at the good or great bands and you will realise that a majority of the players moved from one band to another before finally finding a band where all the players were good or even great players. Singaporeans have a reluctance to move on when it is time to do so. Lack of producers is also at play here. Producers will be able to find and mix and match to form a 'superband' of sorts.

7) record companies here are mostly useless at identifying and grooming bands - the Chinese market is an exception

The record companies here take the bands as they come. Again, lack of active participation in the formative aspects of a band are at fault here.

8) the media has been selling awful musicians to Singaporeans for the past 20 years

I'm really sick and tired of hearing how good certain people are when the fact is that they suck big time. How to make it when the so-called best are iIMO bad or even mediocre??? The other negative aspect of this bad selling is that people have a low target to hit and many will in effect hit this target but find that the media doesn't sell them and hence they get stuck in a rut.

9) Grooming. It's extra difficult to make it without this. Other than talent, this is also important. Ignore this at your own loss.

--------
There are actually a bunch of really talented musicians in Singapore. The trick is in getting a group of them into a superband(s) to make it happen, to raise the benchmark for others to emulate.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[specky]

Re: Succesful Bands

Impromptu

successful in my terms would be to gain the support of most singaporeans as well as breakthru to other markets besides local markets. i know the word most is a very general term, how about say if there was a vote in singapore, the band would be put at top 5 most successful singaporeans (this includes ppl from all aspects -- politicians, musicians, businessmen) in the 21st century. they must also have a large global fanbase. of course than the band has a problem. what might appeal locally might not have the same effect on other countries because different countries have different cultures. furthermore, our market is too small to support.

well no harm trying right?[/i]

 

[litford]

well, everyone seems to be having the notion that a successful band is usually determined by some sort of a worldwide success.

lets talk about the American music industry to try and put things into perspective.

Americans have a large market, which means they have a large population, and they have had a long history in their own music. ie. our international music is their own local music. and lets also try to remember that the record industries (Warner, Sony, BMG, EMI) are all American creations, and so is MTV and cable television. why am i bringing all this up? because i hope you can begin to see just how much international marketting goes into saturating our local airwaves with international products.

not that i don't enjoy what's being put out, if anything it also shows us what sort of production values we could be striving for.

but this 'worldwide success' is really impossible without any sort of exhaustive marketting that penetrates the region. no matter how good you are. for example, why do you not hear progressive metal or fusion world music on contemporary stations? the fanbase is small and difficult to market as opposed to the more commercial options.

Record companies aren't (just) interested in good music, they want a package, an image, a 'cool' that they can sell to you so that you will buy the music (CDs, DVDs), the merchandise, the related band/music paraphanelia, go to the concerts.

as such, with so many external factors determining the 'international success' of a band, a good band that isn't marketed, you won't hear about.

so what do independents do? find more unique ways to share their music with both local and international audiences.

and for all the talk about buying CDs, helping bands become big.. when was the last time we did something for our scene? i don't just play in a band, being a singaporean can also mean that i want to help promote the life and culture of our local music, arts and performance. that doesnt just mean attending free gigs and buying cheap merchandise.. it also means that when some bands are playing a paying gig, we go and pay and we learn to respect because its not just for us, its so that other people can see that we believe in our own music.

for example, if you wont even pay to watch a particular gig, what makes you think that someone else would wanna pay for yours? if you wont buy a local CD, what makes you think someone will buy yours? its not a case of what goes around comes around, its more upping the game of our own scene. if the culture is that we only wanna attend free gigs, then we only have ourselves to blame if we are never going to get paid for playing at gigs. make sense? we are responsible for the health of our own scene, of our bands, not the external market, not the record labels.. success isn't defined by commercialism. even if they didn't exist, would you still be making music? or is music synonymous with how many groupies you score at a gig?

and on a final note, paying for gigs is not mercenary, i think it is a basic courtesy or gift of thanks when bands put in money to practice at studios, or when they buy their own instruments, likewise, paying for CDs just helps independents waver the cost of actually producing a CD.

 

[RoRK]

and for all the talk about buying CDs, helping bands become big.. when was the last time we did something for our scene? i

This is the biggest mistake any one of us can make - that is to support a local band just because the band is local.

I guess it's ok if you aim low. But it is better to aim high. As it is in sports and many other faculties and creative industries, once there is a benchmark, from a local perspective, there is a very good chance that things will set - like a flowe, all the ready to bloom and to set seed for more to follow.

To me, it is a two-fold phenomena - breaking the mental block (that we can't make it here) and setting a standard for others to emulate and/or better.

Like I said, if the band sucks then say so. If the band is good but won't go far, then say so. Anything otherwise just screws up the equation, not just for today for but a long time to come. Of course the otherwise does not include just keeping silent - going for the gigs (pretending that you like the music) just hoping to find a chick to get laid for the next few months etc. etc etc..

At the end of the day, when it comes to professionalism, there is this thing called intellectual integrity or perhaps creative integrity is better suited in this context.

We are far behind when compared to Malaysia. And forget about Indonesia because they are even better. And the Philippines? Muahahahaha!

So people here have to get their act together. Stop their poser attitudes, work their butts off - practicing individually and as a group day and night. Think of an 'act', an image. And practice creative integrity. If it's not good enough then don't put it out - make the time of the day to make something better.

Honestly, all we meed is one really good band to change an entire generation of local musicians so that the level of professionalism reaches a higher level.

Until then, we have people like you arguing that our market is small! That's the cheapest shot ever!

I've never heard of a more ridiculous statement, except that I've heard it many times over.

I suggest that you research into this small country called Ireland and learn how many successful bands they have in their history.

In factl, I'll make it easier for you just look at the local Chinese singers that have made it big in the Chinese market locally and overseas. Ask yourself why they've made it and why band-type of music here just hasn't been able to.

 

[litford]

i don't know if you've read my post properly or not, i'm not trying to account for the poor market in local english music, or a 'lack of talent'. i don't believe in buying music just because it is local, the last time i made that mistake, i bought a vARnish CD and Paul Zach owes me $6 by encouraging my young mind to buy crap local CDs then when i could have bought a macdonald's value meal for lunch. (but that's about the only bad thing he's done to me)

and i would appreciate if you do not assume that my world view is as small as you think it is.

i have not been encouraging musicians to pick up whatever scraps they can find on the floor with regards to their music. i have been trying to offer some pro-actiive points with regards to how independents can improve on what we already have. i'm talking about buying music and paying for shows to help our current scene, if not its going to be stuck in the doldrums for the rest of eternity with nobody placing any value on the music we (singaporeans put out).

and i argue that our market is small, because it is. you're obviously just trying to shoot down my points because i'm talking exclusively about the local english market. i'm not talking about our chinese listening market, or the metal bands that we market overseas. i'm saying our market is small, not for excuse but for fact.

my point remains, if we don't buy our own CDs, who will? and how will bands improve their own production qualities if there is no support? no support means no sponsorships, no sponsorships means no money, no money means i work the rest of my life in some dead-beat job and save a penny or two to get an engineer or producer to record my songs but only based on how much i can give.

if you want to break this cycle, their are some independent channels to go through, or market yourself regionally.

of course i know about m'sia and philipines, but they still support their own talent right? it's in the blood, their culture.

i'll definitely accept your argument that bands should definitely improve in terms of quality, and bands should work hard and get out of their rockstar mentalities. but your reply was more personal than it was beneficial to re-iterating points that many have made before.

"Honestly, all we meed is one really good band to change an entire generation of local musicians so that the level of professionalism reaches a higher level. "

will this be your band?

of course i'm hoping for someone to really change it as well. i think Electrico has done immensely to up the local awareness as well as gig organisers like aging youth, music for good, double yellow line.. etc but what are we waiting for? waiting for the band to become big first then we invest our time and effort into the local scene? its a viscious circle, and it just proves my point that people just like to come along for a free ride instead of supporting when the chips are down, when no one else is doing it, before some major label executive starts marketting it to the rest of the world and tells everyone how cool it is, when it already was since day one.

i will research into this so-called ireland, if it hasn't been bombed back to the stoneage by the IRA. or perhaps you were talking about iceland? for a godforsaken place, they've got some really creative people there who aren't buying into the whole mainstream sales ideas.

so i'd like to see you save the local music scene mr RoRK.

 

[LobinHoot]

Hrmmm people had been asking me what is my target in music ever since i joined a band. Bandmates and friends include. All i wanted was to be able to go on stage and rock it out. Doing songs i like since i cant compose for shit. Thats it. I dont ever have the make-it big mentality. Doesnt matter even if not happens, so long as i get to perform. Thats why i joined and what keeps me going. My passion for music. My idea of being successful is i go to a gig and everyone in the audience(including bandmates) is like screaming and headbanging when we perform :twisted: Thats it!

 

[AgingYouth]

bro AY bro..so angsty. hehe

Okay lah, bro GB bro...

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. So it's like flogging a dead horse.

We've only advocated, "Play music for the sex, booze (no drugs please, will be hung one...) and ROCK'N'ROLL!!!"

 

[RoRK]

Dude, I don't understand what you are saying. On one hand you sk people ot support local music and on the other you say that we shouldn't support local music that sucks.

Then what you are saying is that we should support music, local or otherwise as long as it is good. Well, if that is the case, then that is not what you are saying.

Bands will get the required support as long as they are good regardless of how small the market is.

And I'm not in a band. And if I do do anything, it's not going to happen for at least another year or so. And apologies for the rather personalised response earlier.

My take is that people should start looking inwards for the reasons for not being able to 'make it' instead of looking for excuses. The day that stops is the day these people will either improve or stand aside and let the great divide begin.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[litford]

AgingYouth

but then no angst means no punk rock!! and punk rock makes the world go round.

yeahhh.. i figure this topic has been discussed to death and all that flogging is making me tired.

just need a damn beer now..

and RoRK: i don't think all local music sucks, that we have our own culture and potential, so maybe that's why i think we can support local music and not need to support the ones that are bad. there will always be bad bands no matter where we go. -)

 

[edder]

eh... you all forgot all about The Observatory ah?

now their work ethics and band dynamics should be the MODEL for all serious bands to follow.

World class music, world class professionalism, world class concept and packaging. Everything about them is world class.

 

[litford]

i love their stuff, but i havent had the chance to see them live, so i thought i'd refrain from using them as an example. but their CDs are a fantastic experience

 

[RoRK]

Yo gsonique, the following is in reply to your Rock is Dead ... post in another thread

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-11-13-rock-title_x.htm?csp=34

And check this out
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061113/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_life_australia_guitar
And I wonder if they have a single-coil version with whammy bars.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[bringer]

IMO, Three decisive factors.


1) Size of the country.

2) Cultural confusion.

3) Upbringing(so called "brainwashing" from you know who).


8)

 

[gsonique]

yieee my post got deleted ...yet again :?

 

[specky]

perhaps what singapore needs is a really professional band that can breakthru from this vicious cycle ay? we cant expect bands to be popping up all around singapore and encouraging people to rush out and buy all their albums if they suck. i mean theres no way to ensure long term success if people do not like what they hear and feel. sure.. the band may sell platinum copies with its first album from advertising and people thinking that 'we must support local music'. but so what? thats the furthest it can go i suppose. :roll:

imo what the band needs is to provide faith for the people that they 'can make it' and is not some person who just says 'i wanna go out there and fulfill my dream', please support me. what do u guys think? the zai-ness must be there. but what are the qualities of such a band to create the 'inspiring' image which will sweep across the nation?