Sound help

[iwantdigimon]

Hi guys,

I hardly jam in studios but when I do I always leave the studio feeling very dissatisfied. Not that the studio was bad etc, the sound's just not right.

e.g, when two guitars are playing together, it sounds very competitive.

Anyone knows how to differentiate the sounds of bass and guitars? It sounds like a big gangbang for muzzled noise to me

 

[lifele55]

Try working with your other guitarist and tweak each other settings and then play full band.. Its important to tweak eq instead of increasing the volume else by the end of the jamming session, all of you would most likely walk out with damaged ear and a very uncomfortable jamming experience.

I've noticed an important part during band practice especially, is to make sure your bassist isn't blasting his amp and overloading all the frequencies making everything sound like flabby mudd.

 

[EugeneSmasher]

That's why my band only has one guitarist and one bassist, other than the drummer and lead vocalist, so its easy to ensure that every instrument can be heard clearly. Generally the bass might need more treble and mids to be more prominent.

 

[Cavett]

It all depends on how loud your drummer plays. As the rest of the instruments are volume controllable, getting your drummer to play at a "right volume" is key to get a tight and comfortable band volume. From there, adjust EQ settings so that every instrument can be heard from within their frequency range. Pumping up the gain/volume of your amplifiers usually leads to a "Volume War" among the bandmates after that.

And one more thing, guitarist also gotta learn to lower their egos as well, if you know what I mean... :mrgreen:

 

[remy]

I used to have that problem and i tried to tweak my EQ with my other guitarist and we scooped the mids.

The overall sound is more audible.

 

[igoh002]

Hey man, here's a neat trick I learnt over the years.. When playing in the band / mixing sound.. you might want to imagine the total sound within a frame/as a picture..

High frequencies up top!
Low Frequencies down below!

Left Panning and Right Panning!

If everyone's going to play "in the middle range" same music register / same tonal sounds.. you're going to sound like a whole mash of sound coming through.. What you want to try to do is spread out your sounds.. so that the bass stays down low.. one guitar goes a bit higher.. and another one even higher?

So think about it as a band.. listen to your fav albums.. See how they arrange things..

p.s. don't forget to leave rooms for your vocalist.. they carry the band.. and remember we can always take turns to strut our stuff!

 

[iwantdigimon]

haha i think there are misconceptions. We play jazz, so rest assured the volume is low, and drummer is playing very mild stuff, its just when the fill ins and rhytmn merge the overall sound is very messy

 

[lifele55]

so rest assured the volume is low

Then its time to play abit louder! Lol... just kidding. Hmm, well like igoh says everything pretty much needs to have its own frequency, so nothing is overloaded and everything can be heard better. Its all down to EQ usually..

 

[THOA]

ditto with eqing.

also there is a need to know everyone's need for space instrument wise. when you say that the fill ins done by drummer and rhythm gets messy, is it because everyone is trying to fill in together? perhaps when drummer fills in, he can play a little louder while the rest keep their level constant?

just a thought. really hard to judge when we have a vague idea of what is going on. maybe a video of you jamming would help

 

[iwantdigimon]

I see.. So in order to have some differentiation, one instrument must be slightly louder than the other, right?

 

[THOA]

it's not so much about playing louder. it's really a matter of knowing how to work on dynamics ie creating space for each instrument to shine in the track.

what igoh says pretty much simplifies it. in actual fact it's a little more complicated. have to think the band like a 3d space. left and right near and far is something that can be done on a recording.

in this case though it's a live performance, so it's harder to pull things off. though not impossible. what i would suggest is.. practice with the band more? i dunno how often you guys practice, cos the only way to get everybody's dynamics right is to play together, after a while you know who is gonna come in where with a fill. simply put, when you can actually hear an instrument taking on a fill, everyone else have got to develop the instinct to know how to back off and be prepared to come back in when the fill is done.

it's tough cos in jazz a lot is really dependent on the band's chemistry to each other's playing style and instrument, and jazz is a music of free spirit. all about feel. accomodating to each other's need to have a go at the taking the fill spotlight.. when you get the feel right, when you able to pull it off, that what makes jazz sooo good to listen to live.

like i said i'm just posting this under an assumption. i cannot really suggest something good cos i can't hear you guys. so i might be completely wrong with what i say heh

 

[iwantdigimon]

haha its alright, because we're not seriously into it, just hobbies here and there.. just want a jamming experience to be better. Does a crammed space make any difference? and the members are mostly girls, haha so no obnoxious show-offs!

 

[igoh002]

I see.. So in order to have some differentiation, one instrument must be slightly louder than the other, right?

Haha.. Sure! Louder is one way. The other way, which may work as well, is if everyone gets quieter or plays less?

Try both and see which works for your band.

 

[iwantdigimon]

alright thanks igoh!

 

[THOA]

Does a crammed space make any difference?

very much so. it's all in the physics of acoustics. a cramped room will have all the instrument placed so close to each other, with you standing in the middle of it the sound that travels to your ears will be fighting for attention. a bigger room will let the sound filter a bit, dissolving the unwanted frequency and letting you listen to the important timbres of the instrument.

think of it this way. guitar, bass, drums playing at the same time. you stand close to drums you will hear drums more. you stand close to guitar you will hear guitar more. you stand next to bass you will hear bass more. in a tight space, the space you stand is limited, but when you are in a larger room, you can basically step back and listen to the band AS A WHOLE.

generally though the studio experience is often a cramped affair with instruments fighting to sound clear. it's really normal. with jazz, where everything needs to be pristine, finding the right studio is harder.

 

[gsonique]

haha its alright, because we're not seriously into it, just hobbies here and there.. just want a jamming experience to be better. Does a crammed space make any difference? and the members are mostly girls, haha so no obnoxious show-offs!

I think you already know the answer

 

[iwantdigimon]

I think you already know the answer

haha sorry, i dont get it! what is the answer?

 

[Whitestrat]

and the members are mostly girls

I can fully appreciate the desire not to move to a larger room.:twisted:

But honestly, how well do you guys play? Are you accustomed to adjusting your playing there and then by listening to the other guitarist and doing what works as a pair? Or do you just go in there and chugga chugga?

 

[gsonique]

haha sorry, i dont get it! what is the answer?

"because we're not seriously into it, just hobbies "


can see now !!

 

[iwantdigimon]

gsonique: I dont mean to exasperate you on purpose, but I still dont get it! XD

Whitestrat: just to clarify, I'am not a girl! haha its mostly improv, not the allan holdsworth kinda improv, but more like noodling on the minor/major/pentatonics along with the standard jazz rhytmn while singer sings etc etc..