Singapore Malay Model Got Canned For Drinking Beer In M'sia.

[visa]

hifi_killer:

So if there is no such thing as religion at all, do you think all the racial and gender discrimination disappear?

If there are no more gangs in the world, do you think there would be no more crime?

There is no solution in this world works 100% in ensuring harmony.

The fewer differences there are, the more harmony there is. While we may not reach 100%, we can approach it.

But if you look at religion from a cost - benefit paradigm, its clearly better than the costly media campaigns, military deterrence and mainstream education.

Again, what you are saying is that religion is LESS COSTLY than X, Y and Z. That doesn't change the fact that society would be better off without it.

In general, among different religions, similarities are emphasized, differences are trivialised. Obama had indeed made use of the similarities of Abrahamic faiths to reach out the the Muslim audience in Egypt.

If not for religion, he wouldn't even have had to!

what.? How is drinking LIKE religion?

If you fail to see the analogy then there is no point in me explaining it; let's consider it weak in the context of this argument and move on.

religion provides a buffer against trauma, promotes social cohesion , unity, at least within our communities. As mentioned earlier on, mainstream religion after 9/11 saw it as their one of their goals to mend ties between faiths.

If there were no differences between faiths in the first place, there would be no damaged ties to mend.

Karl Marx is an idealist, his ideas arent perfect, you should take his ideas with a pinch of salt.

I gave you my interpretation, my pinch of salt is right there.

I belief the basic goal of ALL living organisms is self-preservation. If you are dead, what use are you of to the world?

You seem to be missing my point- there are men in the past who have died for noble causes (and in doing so, preserving themselves in human history far longer than they could have hoped to do so by procreation alone) who continue to inspire people to this day with their life and work. That's far more than any of us here can say for ourselves.

 

[fgl]

. By the way,i am 42 years old,and how about you? .

me? I'm 24 ....


btw - STEVEN GERRAD SHOULD GO TO CHURCH, GET DOWN ON HIS BENDED KNEES AND PRAY THAT HE SOMEHOW ESCAPED A GUILTY VERDICT EVEN WITH CCTV EVIDENCE AND HIS 5 GANG MEMBERS ALL GUILTY... SIMPLY AMAZING

STEVEN GERRARD SHOULD BE WHIPPED PUBLICALLY BY THE VICTIM IN THE CENTRE CIRCLE AT ANFIELD!

 

[balloons]

balloons:

did your religion teach you to be condescending?

Visa boy. You must understand one fact. The standard of perfections can be found in every religion. To be loving,peaceful,forgiving,kind,generous,helpful etc. But i'm only human, we are all learning,striving to be the best that we can. The 'condescending'ness you thought i am, has nothing to do with my religion or your religion or their doctrines or scriptures. It is my own characteristic trait that i don't bow down to others in real life or on the internet.That simple. Perhaps you should strive to know by now that,you cannot judge any religion based on what their followers or preachers say and do. You just have to go and read the scriptures and understand them. In case you cannot understand after reading the scriptures, you may want to enrol yourself in basic Arabic,Sanskrit,Hebrew classes,and mind you,translations are often full of errors.

 

[EngelFaeuste]

balloons:

did your religion teach you to be condescending?

:mrgreen:
Sums up what I had a paragraph for, nice one visa.

Oh balloons you're 42, I'm serving your country's armed forces now (though quite willingly), go figure out how old I am.

You want to know why I'm militantly against the abrahamic faiths? Why the hell do the catholics get to build beautiful churches, exquisitely decorated, while some people in the world live with nothing at all?

You must understand one fact. The standard of perfections can be found in every religion. To be loving,peaceful,forgiving,kind,generous,helpful etc.

Leviticus (Holy Bible)

24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;

24:11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan

24:12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them.

24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death

How tolerant, kind and gentle

The Family of 'Imran (Qur 'an)

3:118 O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if ye will understand.

Hmm interesting passage

I HAVE A LOT MORE FROM WHERE THAT CAME FROM, DON'T GET ME STARTED

You just have to go and read the scriptures and understand them. In case you cannot understand after reading the scriptures, you may want to enrol yourself in basic Arabic,Sanskrit,Hebrew classes,and mind you,translations are often full of errors.

You just have to go and read works by Nietzsche and others like him to understand them and be enlightened by them. You may want to enrol yourself in basic French, German and possibly Italian classes, and mind you, translations are often full of errors.

-Visa of course I watch Carlin.
Like, god has a divine plan right? So what the hell is the point of being god when some rundown schmuck with a 2 dollar prayer book can come along and F*** up your plan with a little prayer. If god's will is going to happen anyway, WHY BOTHER PRAYING?

 

[fgl]

but. for every child who is taught to kill their enemies ruthlessly, there are probably 120941237413049824 children out there who will be taught by their religion to love thy neighbours.

AGREED BRO BUT THE RATIO SHOULD BE, IF CAN EVER BE BUT WILL NEVER EVER BE FOREVER AS WE ALL WOULD SEE .... 0 : 120941237413049824

OR IS IT JUST ME

 

[Vaiyen]

so why don't you love Gerrard?
lol.

or even Man U, heh.
See, this is the problem with human beings. We often say one thing and do another.

 

[fgl]

so why don't you love Gerrard?
lol.

or even Man U, heh.
See, this is the problem with human beings. We often say one thing and do another.

LETS JUST SAY i GOT "jihad" AGAINST THEM :mrgreen:

 

[hifi_killer]

Wow i admire how late you guys stay up to argue your points.
Visa:
If there are no more gangs in the world, do you think there would be no more crime?

My point is, it is unfair (and very dangerous as well )to use religion as a scapegoat for crimes and conflicts.

The fewer differences there are, the more harmony there is. While we may not reach 100%, we can approach it.


Such Utopian ideas are dangerous. "Why not just get rid of the people who are different?"

That doesn't change the fact that society would be better off without it(religion).

is that your personal opinion or is that a fact? If its a fact, could you back it up with concrete evidence?

If not for religion, he wouldn't even have had to!

Clearly, the tensions between US and the middle east was more of political than due religious differences.


You seem to be missing my point- there are men in the past who have died for noble causes (and in doing so, preserving themselves in human history far longer than they could have hoped to do so by procreation alone) who continue to inspire people to this day with their life and work. That's far more than any of us here can say for ourselves.


Yes, there are people who died for noble causes and had made an impact to mankind. But you cant equate idealistic cause = noble cause.

The suicide bombers, died for their ideals, are their deaths noble?

 

[Vaiyen]

so all the extremists in the world are also justified in their hate and violence if they say "Jihad"?


nothing against you FGL, just pointing out things that everyone should see.
I know i am guilty of such things too sometimes.

 

[fgl]

the suicide bombers, died for their ideals, are their deaths noble?

we dont care about the terrorists - only about the innocent victims of theirs

 

[fgl]

so all the extremists in the world are also justified in their hate and violence if they say "Jihad"?


nothing against you FGL, just pointing out things that everyone should see.
I know i am guilty of such things too sometimes.

I'm only guilty of extreme piss taking ......

humour makes the world go round

 

[growlingsoulpup]

Religion is always going to be a touchy matter. Throughout history, people have always committed atrocities in the name of the greater good. The Crusades, The Inquisition, colonialism etc...but the question we need to ask ourselves is this: is religion the symptom, or the cause, of evil? The very first society that deliberately tried to rid itself of religion did no better in creating a utopia. In fact, it collapsed spectacularly under the weight of its own corruption.

There's really no use in pushing all the blame onto religion. If science manages to one day successfully disprove the existence of God once and for all, fundamental human problems such as poverty, crime and disease will still exist. If religion is to truly fade out from human society, men will still find ways to hoodwink and mislead the masses. The truth about evil is that it exists in the heart of man.

"This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us."

 

[hifi_killer]

Empirical evidence suggesting the link between religiosity and personal well-being:

1. Ashkanani, H.R. demonstrated the positive relationship between religiosity and subjective well being of car accident victims

source : http://tmt.sagepub.com.libproxy1.nus.edu.sg/cgi/content/abstract/15/1/23

2.Reiland, S. and Lauterbach, D. showed that children who had higher religiosity and undergone traumatic experience, had higher self-esteem than children who had undergone traumatic experience and had lower religiosity.

source : http://www.fdpsa.com/summary1xbrief/PR-June-2008_0018_s.pdf

 

[EngelFaeuste]

Religion can be bad for your health:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/255758

I can't access the first link, I am not a student of NUS and never will be. Going somewhere else to do my degree.

Let's assume that the empirical evidence you provided is widely accepted by the psychological community. I will not attempt to find contrary evidence.

The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.

"I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor, Helmuth Nyborg.

Ah hah, another piece of empirical evidence regarding something else.

 

[hifi_killer]

The 1st article :
that perhaps is an isolated incident, i'm sure religious personnels in Singapore will not tell a patient that "praying and fasting are much better remedies against the aids virus than the hospital treatment."

Besides there are vast research that points out that strong faith might facilitate the rehabilitative
process of HIV patient, although it is unable to replace conventional medicine.

The graph:

The data shown is inconclusive.

1. how do you quantify intelligence? The standard IQ test is not a fair test to gauge the
level of intelligence when across different countries and cultures

2. Above the 100points line. there are more countries that have a high average belief in god than the countries that have a low average belief in god. So perhaps another hypothesis would be that the intelligent community practises religion to satisfy their higher level needs.

3. The hypothesis "people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions," , it does not necessary says religion is bad. People who are mildly retarded would easily believe in anything. It is no fault of religion.

 

[Vaiyen]

here's something from the scientists:
http://www.livescience.com/health/070424_religion_kids.html

also the links at the end of the article are good too.

 

[Vaiyen]

something from the other side of the coin:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20060901/tips/19.html

if it's too many words for you, go to the heading "Bottom Line".

"A patient who knew that he or she was being prayed for was slightly more likely to have complications"

lol i find this hilariously ironic.

 

[balloons]

:mrgreen:


Oh balloons you're 42, I'm serving your country's armed forces now (though quite willingly), go figure out how old I am.

You want to know why I'm militantly against the abrahamic faiths? Why the hell do the catholics get to build beautiful churches, exquisitely decorated, while some people in the world live with nothing at all?


I HAVE A LOT MORE FROM WHERE THAT CAME FROM, DON'T GET ME STARTED


You just have to go and read works by Nietzsche and others like him to understand them and be enlightened by them. You may want to enrol yourself in basic French, German and possibly Italian classes, and mind you, translations are often full of errors.


Like, god has a divine plan right? So what the hell is the point of being god when some rundown schmuck with a 2 dollar prayer book can come along and F*** up your plan with a little prayer. If god's will is going to happen anyway, WHY BOTHER PRAYING?

Figuring out your age? i got better things to do really. NS man are you? Why don't you think about your future instead? Why can't the catholics build beautiful churches? and why can't the hindus construct grand temples? Why can't the buddhists build places of offerings? Are you jealous coz you can't seem to find a place to worship in? Why some people live with nothing at all. Ask the other people also, those without religions like yourself and how much have you cared about third world nations.

You know something? you are immediately at a losing end once you start quoting scriptures,it proves you know nothing at all. I can quote countering points anytime for you to argue the whole night. But that defeats the purpose. I would rather concentrate on your short vision here. Why must i learn German,French and Italian, when the original manuscripts are not written in there? You must be totally crazy to even suggest that.

And don't use the word "F" something here. Be civilized and just because you cannot win my argument doesn't mean you got the right to Scold Vulgarity here. Unless you are an immature brat.

 

[visa]

balloons:

The 'condescending'ness you thought i am, has nothing to do with my religion or your religion or their doctrines or scriptures. It is my own characteristic trait that i don't bow down to others in real life or on the internet.That simple.

I don't bow down to anybody either; but that doesn't give me the right to impose my views on anybody else. It's a simple rule of thumb; treat others as you would like to be treated. Did your religion not teach you that? Because I learnt it in kindergarten. Religious or not, you're being a hypocrite.

Perhaps you should strive to know by now that,you cannot judge any religion based on what their followers or preachers say and do.

That's ridiculous! So it's justified to preach love and practice hate? Does a government have legitimacy if it has sound policies but corrupt officials? Again, religious or not, you're being a hypocrite.

You just have to go and read the scriptures and understand them. In case you cannot understand after reading the scriptures, you may want to enrol yourself in basic Arabic,Sanskrit,Hebrew classes,and mind you,translations are often full of errors

All scriptures which exist today are "full of errors"- they have been passed down from man to man, from generation to generation, and experienced rewrite after rewrite for thousands of years. What you might consider to be "the Word of God" is in fact what the powerful and influential men of history have defined it to be.

 

[visa]

hifi_killer:

My point is, it is unfair (and very dangerous as well )to use religion as a scapegoat for crimes and conflicts.


you're missing my point- i'm not saying that religion causes all crimes and conflicts, I'm pointing out that there would be fewer conflicts if there were no religion.

Such Utopian ideas are dangerous. "Why not just get rid of the people who are different?"

I never advocated "getting rid of people who are different"- this is a concept that religious people are more familiar with, because the presence and permeation of one faith threatens the existence of another. As far as I know, only religious people have embarked on crusades to kill people of other religions. I've never heard of an atheist suicide bomber.

is that your personal opinion or is that a fact? If its a fact, could you back it up with concrete evidence?

Google or Wiki "The God Delusion"- Richard Dawkins sums it up with brilliant logical arguments and concrete evidence.

Clearly, the tensions between US and the middle east was more of political than due religious differences.

The political differences are based on territorial disputes, which in turn are built on religious ones. If religious differences never existed, the Holocaust would not have had to take place, Zionism would not have been a reasonable response, Palestinians would not have been displaced from their homes, and there would be no problem.

The suicide bombers, died for their ideals, are their deaths noble?

Who are we to judge? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.