levitation
New member
i think you're sleepy
Please stop it with the selling of tickets to perform. Just stop it.
- Thread starter Studio+79
- Start date
hifi_killer
New member
You might have good intentions , but pure idealism and courage alone wont get you far.
There were so many similar threads on the pay to play system, many people before you had tried alternative models. How many of them are successful in doing so? If they are, how long can they last? or rather how long can they do that without getting tired of spending so much energy and time into it and not expecting profits or returns. (i guess james is one of the rare few.)
So is it SO WRONG to earn some profit from it?
IMO, a true alternative to pay 2 play gigs are campus gigs. In such gigs cost are usually borne by the school/CCAs or sponsors such as the various youth organizations.
There were so many similar threads on the pay to play system, many people before you had tried alternative models. How many of them are successful in doing so? If they are, how long can they last? or rather how long can they do that without getting tired of spending so much energy and time into it and not expecting profits or returns. (i guess james is one of the rare few.)
So is it SO WRONG to earn some profit from it?
IMO, a true alternative to pay 2 play gigs are campus gigs. In such gigs cost are usually borne by the school/CCAs or sponsors such as the various youth organizations.
levitation
New member
why must you get tired in the first place if you are really supporting the local scene? be sensible. want to earn extra pocket money go find yourself a part-time job. hp bills to settle, petrol, transport fare, those are really dumb reasons coming from a professional. seriously, local scene? haha. goodnight people.
Last edited:
idontreallylikepapayas
New member
Just a suggestion.
How bout someone who doesn't mind spending some time to create a thread here on soft, to gather like-minded bands who are interested in organising their own gigs.
Interested bands can then reply to the thread and post their myspace and genre so it would be easy for bands to know where to start if they wanna organise their own gigs.
How bout someone who doesn't mind spending some time to create a thread here on soft, to gather like-minded bands who are interested in organising their own gigs.
Interested bands can then reply to the thread and post their myspace and genre so it would be easy for bands to know where to start if they wanna organise their own gigs.
Indeed, james is one of those rare few..
Soft did not happen overnight. James built it with his passion for music, to share knowledge and to bring like-minded friends together. He was then a young chap like many of you out there from the new generation of soft. There was never BIG impact, nor instant limelight. He did it diligently, patiently and generously.. I think he has established himself well over the years.
There was no "angel fund"... so he had to work hard to generate moderate income, part of which he channeled into soft initiatives/activities.. or to look high & low for generous sponsors to chip in...
Have you watched SOFT TV ? It's James' latest project.
He didn't just shoot the performers and broadcast live.
He took the effort to present them well online.
He took the effort to edit their performance, into clips for upload, eg to youtube..
hoping that they can attract a bigger/international audience..
hoping that the platform can help them attract some big time contracts
I'm not sure what the market rate is to produce something like that.. but James did it for free.
ahhh.. talking about gig..
Any of you remember James & a friend once did a "mini concert" at sub-station? They played their original compositions..
Tickets were at $5 each.. It was a full house! hhahah.aHhaa :mrgreen:
BleedsNoMore
New member
my principle is, no money, don't organize gigs..
i wouldn't say that i disagree with studio79, it's another alternative idea but to me, the last thing that organizers wana do is make the bands fork out their money.. for organizers, collect your own money, set up the gig, let the bands play for free, if there is an extra income, give some kopi money to the bands for their hardwork or organize more kick-ass gigs, and if there's more profit from there, u can buy cigarettes and booze (HAHA!)..
not for the business, but for the masses..
at the end of the day, organizers feel happy that they make the bands happy, and bands feel happy coz they make everyone happy.. eveyrone leaves the gig space, HAPPY!
does anybody disagree?
i wouldn't say that i disagree with studio79, it's another alternative idea but to me, the last thing that organizers wana do is make the bands fork out their money.. for organizers, collect your own money, set up the gig, let the bands play for free, if there is an extra income, give some kopi money to the bands for their hardwork or organize more kick-ass gigs, and if there's more profit from there, u can buy cigarettes and booze (HAHA!)..
not for the business, but for the masses..
at the end of the day, organizers feel happy that they make the bands happy, and bands feel happy coz they make everyone happy.. eveyrone leaves the gig space, HAPPY!
does anybody disagree?
JaarVis.
New member
In singapore , money talks . thats all . If anyone here is complaining or against the fact that organisers are earning money , go f4k yourselves . You can't expect to turn professional just one day after you form a band . you pay the price to get your band up there where everyone looks up to you . and then money comes in to cover up for all that you've spent . hardwork and passion from the bands play a big part . and this is a never-ending topic. It's either people here are talking with NO experience in organising gigs OR they're just whining , like seriously . The DIY plan has already been started by Shyam Raj of Thambi K Seaow / Withered Tree . Please do contact Shyam for more details on creating DIY gigs . I guess he's looking for people to work with him to create one . Stop complaining and start thinking .
Rojak_king
New member
Hey studio guy ,I was just curious, whats ur main intention making this post?? are u trying to get pple to support ur idea? Or is it some petition u making? or u wanna make it look like P2P is a 'crime' and asking the some music 'policeman' to stop it??
Maybe ah everyone , we just stop it here la. Everyone knows where this is coming... HAha. No Point arguing. MAybe studio guy, u shuld change this thread to 'bands that wanna support ur idea and willing to join in the idea' that way at least this thread will hav a result....
cheers
PEACE NO WAR!
Maybe ah everyone , we just stop it here la. Everyone knows where this is coming... HAha. No Point arguing. MAybe studio guy, u shuld change this thread to 'bands that wanna support ur idea and willing to join in the idea' that way at least this thread will hav a result....
cheers PEACE NO WAR!
biopromax
New member
Ok, i hate to create new thread. Maybe I use this thread. 
Save space.
HEY GUYS.
Email us your band's presskit at whatlahproject at hotmail dot com
Any genres will do. Try to include your myspace/video links/songs links. From there, we will handpick those who is good enough to showcase their work(s). We might work on auditioning of bands too. (depend on time and stress levels)
PS : This event is a free from P2P and no sharing of cost. So impress us with your work. We will help you. Do spread this news around.
Save space.HEY GUYS.
Email us your band's presskit at whatlahproject at hotmail dot com
Any genres will do. Try to include your myspace/video links/songs links. From there, we will handpick those who is good enough to showcase their work(s). We might work on auditioning of bands too. (depend on time and stress levels)
PS : This event is a free from P2P and no sharing of cost. So impress us with your work. We will help you. Do spread this news around.
cliffburton
New member
at last got some action.. thanks whatlah project..
all i can say is all talk no action.full stop.
all i can say is all talk no action.full stop.
Studio+79
New member
ok just because u dont see it doesnt mean its not there.
ok yes, im in the process of gathering bands who are willing to pay to play.
yes pay to play.pay $50,play. then later on get some money from the sales.
yes it seems like im doing nothing, but i am.
anyways, I guess for mainstream gigs, selling tickets is normal. and gaining from it financially is normal as well.
all i did was just give a suggestion to alternative solution.
and you think im not doing enough,or anything,which wasnt even the point.
so yeah, like everyone said. changes dont just happen overnight, and I am slowly coming up with something with the support of some bands.
a revolution you might say, well I hope to get it done by the end of the month. I will inform everyone here once its ready.
And im doing this aside from having a full time job and a life. So yeah, maybe I am not doing "enough". But I do what I can. I try do my part.
ok yes, im in the process of gathering bands who are willing to pay to play.
yes pay to play.pay $50,play. then later on get some money from the sales.
yes it seems like im doing nothing, but i am.
anyways, I guess for mainstream gigs, selling tickets is normal. and gaining from it financially is normal as well.
all i did was just give a suggestion to alternative solution.
and you think im not doing enough,or anything,which wasnt even the point.
so yeah, like everyone said. changes dont just happen overnight, and I am slowly coming up with something with the support of some bands.
a revolution you might say, well I hope to get it done by the end of the month. I will inform everyone here once its ready.
And im doing this aside from having a full time job and a life. So yeah, maybe I am not doing "enough". But I do what I can. I try do my part.
levitation
New member
pay the price to become professional? haha JAARVIS.you must have been paying alot of money. you need to earn it. slowly but surely. sorry lah professional people, stop leeching.
hahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahaha
hifi_killer
New member
I find that the most radical comments/criticisms usually come from "new users". Their 'sudden' appearance seems "strange"
Well. The ones who do the most work and the most supportive of the local music scene are usually the ones who have little to complain about, and do not see the need to brag about what they do. They have been quietly working behind the scenes. For instance.. james, and maybe to lesser known extent, chanmin, who has been engaging ben & jerry to sponsor local music (kudos!). These are the people who deserve our respect and attention. NOT those people who are making so much noise.
Many gig organisers come and go, The new generation of gig organisers such as the ,lightsout,soundxpedia, whatlah project, perhaps even rather interesting ID4 still awaits the test of time.
Well. The ones who do the most work and the most supportive of the local music scene are usually the ones who have little to complain about, and do not see the need to brag about what they do. They have been quietly working behind the scenes. For instance.. james, and maybe to lesser known extent, chanmin, who has been engaging ben & jerry to sponsor local music (kudos!). These are the people who deserve our respect and attention. NOT those people who are making so much noise.
Many gig organisers come and go, The new generation of gig organisers such as the ,lightsout,soundxpedia, whatlah project, perhaps even rather interesting ID4 still awaits the test of time.
blueprintstudios
New member
I think this thread should never be closed, but please stick to the topic and reduce the negativity, because we all mean no harm and have better intentions.This highlights 2 sides of a coin about Gig Organising and how it impacts the local scene.
It's great to have ideals. the Perfect Dream for a whole new world (or at least singapore) local scene starts from the heart and mind of someone.
Everything comes down to Dream VS Reality. What keeps dreams going, is passion, what keeps passion going, is truly , reality, and that reality is "business". And in the road of passion is filled with disappointments, however when you truly succeed, it's the mother of all fruits of labour.
I have spoke to Studio79 about this (but it wasn't about gig organising it was about recording studios but it's the same formula.) before on MSN. The only way to convince the masses that your dream is possible is to make it possible via your own means first and the small number of people who believe in you. Make it so that you and your "puny" small group will have the last laugh, because the time you truly fail is the time when you give up or quit.
what james said is very true, maybe you're not doing enough. straight in your face. You'll know "enough" when you reach Enough Road. To give an example : Audioreload/Pure-Rock/Metaltronic/Soft, each of them have done alot to make a difference in the past, but is it enough? I myself have filmed loads of gigs at my gigvideos site, but really, is it enough? My dream was to start a trend of gigvideographers to make our own "punkrockvids.com" singapore possible, so when that one fine day comes, I'm no longer needed. 1200+ videos ? so lovelovelovelovelovelovelovelove what? 6 years later I still am one of the only few (sadly) gigvideographers. maybe it really is about the money ? because it costs $500 - $2500 for a cam ? would someone really donate that much money to the scene and no one appreciates? might as well donate to handicap ppl in need. One fine day when the next generation of youth operates local music forums way more effectively rendering soft.com.sg lifeless, I'm sure james will know that "he has done enough" because he is no longer needed to make a change.
So Studio79, now you opt to make a difference, personally I feel from a reality check point of view you would have to "pocket" some "profits" in the future because now you're just "full time job", wait till you're married with kids and a house. or you need that "Funds from Profits" to set aside in case shit happens like mosh pit caused damage to location/too much noise caused, kena summon by police etc, and guess who pays? =) stuff like that. and before you hit me with a "I don't mix personal with work". any working musician down here in soft with a personal + passion + work life will know that you will have to mix them to balance them successfully. I'm sure you wouldn't wanna neglect your family for the scene, nor neglect the scene cos you got work/bills to pay but it's all wasted cos you got passion in your heart.
in any case good luck to both you DIY rebels and shyam raj , I see potential in this but potential is a "futuristic MAYBE" word. Just remember the basics of all : Don't try to be hero, set yourself on fire while trying to display fireworks for all to see.
P.S : relax on the "who's not doing enough" bashing. bottom line is all of you guys are not having sex enough and it will never be enough. lol.
It's great to have ideals. the Perfect Dream for a whole new world (or at least singapore) local scene starts from the heart and mind of someone.
Everything comes down to Dream VS Reality. What keeps dreams going, is passion, what keeps passion going, is truly , reality, and that reality is "business". And in the road of passion is filled with disappointments, however when you truly succeed, it's the mother of all fruits of labour.
I have spoke to Studio79 about this (but it wasn't about gig organising it was about recording studios but it's the same formula.) before on MSN. The only way to convince the masses that your dream is possible is to make it possible via your own means first and the small number of people who believe in you. Make it so that you and your "puny" small group will have the last laugh, because the time you truly fail is the time when you give up or quit.
what james said is very true, maybe you're not doing enough. straight in your face. You'll know "enough" when you reach Enough Road. To give an example : Audioreload/Pure-Rock/Metaltronic/Soft, each of them have done alot to make a difference in the past, but is it enough? I myself have filmed loads of gigs at my gigvideos site, but really, is it enough? My dream was to start a trend of gigvideographers to make our own "punkrockvids.com" singapore possible, so when that one fine day comes, I'm no longer needed. 1200+ videos ? so lovelovelovelovelovelovelovelove what? 6 years later I still am one of the only few (sadly) gigvideographers. maybe it really is about the money ? because it costs $500 - $2500 for a cam ? would someone really donate that much money to the scene and no one appreciates? might as well donate to handicap ppl in need. One fine day when the next generation of youth operates local music forums way more effectively rendering soft.com.sg lifeless, I'm sure james will know that "he has done enough" because he is no longer needed to make a change.
So Studio79, now you opt to make a difference, personally I feel from a reality check point of view you would have to "pocket" some "profits" in the future because now you're just "full time job", wait till you're married with kids and a house. or you need that "Funds from Profits" to set aside in case shit happens like mosh pit caused damage to location/too much noise caused, kena summon by police etc, and guess who pays? =) stuff like that. and before you hit me with a "I don't mix personal with work". any working musician down here in soft with a personal + passion + work life will know that you will have to mix them to balance them successfully. I'm sure you wouldn't wanna neglect your family for the scene, nor neglect the scene cos you got work/bills to pay but it's all wasted cos you got passion in your heart.
in any case good luck to both you DIY rebels and shyam raj , I see potential in this but potential is a "futuristic MAYBE" word. Just remember the basics of all : Don't try to be hero, set yourself on fire while trying to display fireworks for all to see.
P.S : relax on the "who's not doing enough" bashing. bottom line is all of you guys are not having sex enough and it will never be enough. lol.
lordie
New member
all this heavy talk. let get to basics.
there is no demand for Made in Singapore music and worse if you are alternative or indie rock or worse if yer metal and abysmal if you are death metal etc..etc..
most commercial or top40 folks make debut overseas eg)taiwan and they are like mandarin pop or canto pop, etc.. correct me if i am wrong/
if there is no local fans how do u expect sponsors from corporates? ad agency? brand managers? etc..etc.. cos the band can't pull crowd and reach their target audience emotionally.
i play in a gig in malaysia and the event was full sponsored by companies, etc.. wanting to reach to that particular audience and the band that played there are great local malaysia bands that got airtime on the radio, top20 in their local music charts, and they are like metal ;p. the backline was impressive as well.
we talking abt gigs that attracts what? 50ppl? 100? there is no mileage for brand managers to sponsor such an event cos there is no mileage and the bands, those sponsors will go again "who are they again"? while u trying to do a 7 page ppt presentation with a international ad-agency. oh they are a 5-pc band that plays in gossip bar to 20ppl last mth and recently release a DIY CD-R that sold 20pcs."
and those ppl that organized gigs are like what DIY, no money, no funding, promotions of gigs via forums, photocopy flyers, etc..same shit as what i saw 15 yrs ago and still going on today. SAD.
baybeats was impressive meza virs got paid i think for it. thats good. small amt but better than nothing.
so how do we fix these bigger issues? by whining P2P gig? and someone say the band p2p gig can record a demo. if u think $200-300 can record a proper demo and make your band known do it but i doubt u can do it prolly need to double that amt and that not include production cost for CD's and pls dun record crap demo and release, that is just sad.
of course different genre require different PR/mktg strategy, etc..etc..
i think i veer off topic a few times haaha.. but what i am trying to say is focus on your music. gig, no gig, play under the bridge, etc.. its all abt the music. if your music touch and connect to your listeners keep doing it and along the way chicks, gigs, $$ will come your way.
there is no demand for Made in Singapore music and worse if you are alternative or indie rock or worse if yer metal and abysmal if you are death metal etc..etc..
most commercial or top40 folks make debut overseas eg)taiwan and they are like mandarin pop or canto pop, etc.. correct me if i am wrong/
if there is no local fans how do u expect sponsors from corporates? ad agency? brand managers? etc..etc.. cos the band can't pull crowd and reach their target audience emotionally.
i play in a gig in malaysia and the event was full sponsored by companies, etc.. wanting to reach to that particular audience and the band that played there are great local malaysia bands that got airtime on the radio, top20 in their local music charts, and they are like metal ;p. the backline was impressive as well.
we talking abt gigs that attracts what? 50ppl? 100? there is no mileage for brand managers to sponsor such an event cos there is no mileage and the bands, those sponsors will go again "who are they again"? while u trying to do a 7 page ppt presentation with a international ad-agency. oh they are a 5-pc band that plays in gossip bar to 20ppl last mth and recently release a DIY CD-R that sold 20pcs."
and those ppl that organized gigs are like what DIY, no money, no funding, promotions of gigs via forums, photocopy flyers, etc..same shit as what i saw 15 yrs ago and still going on today. SAD.
baybeats was impressive meza virs got paid i think for it. thats good. small amt but better than nothing.
so how do we fix these bigger issues? by whining P2P gig? and someone say the band p2p gig can record a demo. if u think $200-300 can record a proper demo and make your band known do it but i doubt u can do it prolly need to double that amt and that not include production cost for CD's and pls dun record crap demo and release, that is just sad.
of course different genre require different PR/mktg strategy, etc..etc..
i think i veer off topic a few times haaha.. but what i am trying to say is focus on your music. gig, no gig, play under the bridge, etc.. its all abt the music. if your music touch and connect to your listeners keep doing it and along the way chicks, gigs, $$ will come your way.
JaarVis.
New member
Firstly , Im no professional . I have paid . But i went DIY . When i went DIY , i earned , i lost . And tell me how you earn it in Singapore without paying the price . Explain , boss . You think it's simple to just form a band and bring it up just like that ? You think organisers would just let a newly formed band with no experience to play for them knowing that the new band can pull no crowd cos' of course , they're new ! The whole 'selling tix to play' shit goes to all the new bands to get their friends to watch em play . And them expose themselves and people will automatically go to watch them if they're good .
And one more thing , when i said 'pay the price' , it didn't only mean paying cash literally . It also means that the band has to put in alot alot of effort in their music so much that organisers would start paying them to play instead . Alot of hardwork is needed. From what i have seen , many bands just form for leisure and then play covers for fun and they expect organisers to pay them when they aren't serious and when they get bored playing the same thing , they disappear. Whats the point ? Seriously , if you think what you're saying is right , its up to you . Im in bands , i'm an organiser . I'm speaking from my very own experience and i've got no intentions to create any conflicts here . And yes , less talkings , more actions .
does whatlah project take in metal bands ?
twistedmelody
New member
eh rojak king..lu jgn banyak bunyik lah..lu peh gig pun tk menjadi..budak bone lah..rojak king lah..peace no war kepale hotak kau
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