fgl
Well-known member
when you buy a good guitar you also pay to play rite bro moking?
Thats why I always wanna borrow Tetra's guitar coz I say no pay to buy good guitar to play
When we going for prata dude?
Pay to play...or not?
- Thread starter trippyfactory
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when you buy a good guitar you also pay to play rite bro moking?
Thats why I always wanna borrow Tetra's guitar coz I say no pay to buy good guitar to play
When we going for prata dude?
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
eh, nobody read my nonsensical post up there http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/music-kopi-tiam/193274-pay-play-not-3.html#post1097881!? ^^
damn! thought i could smoke some people!
damn! thought i could smoke some people!
fgl
Well-known member
no need bro - some ppl already been smoking too much funny stuff ....
SAY YES to pay to smoke - GUDANG GARAM RULES
fgl
Well-known member
Just for the sake of getting a foreign muso's view on p2p - here's the reply from expatguitarist that I just wanted t share with everyone here ... drawn your own conclusions from this
06-11-10 06:18 PM #19 expatguitarist
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no pay and play
There were not any pay and play. In fact, if an organizer got involved that usually meant the band would get paid much better. I was in an original music band in DC. If we play small places as a headliner we would usually get a percentage of the bar and/or free drinks or a set amount of cash. If we opened, we would get free drinks and maybe just a little cash. Some of the more artist oriented bars (places where musicians would play to try out different or new music) would not pay and just give a few beers to the band. Generally, bars paid cover bands better unless the original music band had a following. Often, if the band had a following, the band would be booked on a weekend and a small cover charge would be applied at the door. In my opinion, it is ass backwards having to pay organizers to play. It should be the other way around.
06-11-10 06:18 PM #19 expatguitarist
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no pay and play
There were not any pay and play. In fact, if an organizer got involved that usually meant the band would get paid much better. I was in an original music band in DC. If we play small places as a headliner we would usually get a percentage of the bar and/or free drinks or a set amount of cash. If we opened, we would get free drinks and maybe just a little cash. Some of the more artist oriented bars (places where musicians would play to try out different or new music) would not pay and just give a few beers to the band. Generally, bars paid cover bands better unless the original music band had a following. Often, if the band had a following, the band would be booked on a weekend and a small cover charge would be applied at the door. In my opinion, it is ass backwards having to pay organizers to play. It should be the other way around.
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
I think this is a good rate, once a year or half yearly. By doing this, the profile and quality of the gig will be higher. OR you can do up to 6 gigs a year, with each being of a different theme or genre, and are unrelated except for the fact it's all under your company's name.
Okay, about the sell tickets to friends part!!
This is a very flawed concept. It actually decieves bands that they will have an appreciative audience at the said gig!
Why is this so? It's because the people who go for these "bands-sell-tickets-to-friends" gigs are people who go to support theirfriends. Some may not even be there to support the music. Most of these people might arrive before their friend's set and leave soon after. Even if they stay, it makes no difference because it doesn't change the fact they're not appreciative of the music being showcased at the gig. Afterall, they are friends who are there to show some moral support for their friends. It's like trying to suck money out of the wrong target audience, barking up the wrong tree.
Exposure to these audience will not make more of a difference, than to say, play at a good public location with higher 100% of target audiences like cine leisure or scape's open stage.
This is the downfall to bands selling tickets to their friends. It's not wrong however, to say that bands should promote themselves, and to try and reach out to more people outside their circle of friends, but how do they do it? Simple individual posts to myspace, facebook events, soft forums will do little in helping, people will see, and click "maybe"
If the organiser steps in and plays one more role as a promoter for the event, if the organiser has got a good reputation, he will be able to rope in many regular gig goers (or in other words, in this context, lets just say fans). Not a fair comparison, but lets just say LAMC (mostly international acts) or even event base (Baybeats or the previous rock for good / wayne). These events manage to generate lots of interest because of their high profile. To keep things in context, say for example LAMC, they bring in a variaty of acts from different genres and not everybody likes all of them, but because LAMC is such a well known event organiser, word still travels to a very large number of possible target audience. I dig their iron maiden, but not stereophonics not pitbull, but see, i still know that gig is happening.
What i'm saying is that the organiser is in the best position to promote their own event, especially if it's a multi band gig. If the organiser can do this very well, and the gig turns out to be as rocking and as sold out as the previous rock for good's. then that is what it's all about. the organiser thus deserves a profit.
I've self organised a few gigs, and I wouldn't say it was easy, but it sure wasn't that hard. I think my team actually spent more time and money jamming with their bands than to email 20 different locations for quotations, open photoshop and doodle some indie event poster, doodle some indie event ticket design, go down to peace centre to get them printed, posting on soft, facebook, myspace, msn, calculating how much to price the tickets, organising the band order. and what else? all these adds up to less than a day's work! (except for maybe going down to that unfamiliar venue we had eventually gotten to take a look how the stage was like and to discuss the terms verbally.)
The hobbyist bands most probably jammed for 2 hours each week for 2 months (2 × 8 = 16hours × $15 = $240 and 16 hours) in preparation for this event to put up a good show for the audiences. This gives reputation to not only the bands themselves, but to the organiser/event too, because people will have a good impression of the event and organiser. If a follow up event happens 1 year later, with the same bands (or with new additions) it will be successful again, because quite a number will come back for it. Overall, the organiser have control of the money flow, and to be honest, I as an organiser, thought it would be wise to split the profit evenly between all organisers and all bands. with 6 people in the organising team and 8 bands, it would have been about $80 per organiser and per band (14 in total).
Not a good amount of money considering it doesn't cover the jamming cost per band (assuming near $200) and $480 for the organising team for a combined total of 24 hours of work (wth, one can earn $30 per hour on tuition). But in the end was it fair? I would think so. the bands didn't pay us (they were our bands, and they weren't given a quota of tickets to sell) That particular event was not as successful as we thought it would be, but I think the failure to hit the target lies with the organisers more than the bands, from my point of view.
Pardon me for using my own experience for a case study, but it's the closest thing i have to pulling in real numbers.
@TF: point to note is, it's good you are paying bands $100, but if you're paying them, then why do you consider yourself as a pay to play gig organiser? you are paying them right? the bands have to pay you? I'm still quite puzzled by this part
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fgl
Well-known member
here's my solution .....
pay to audition ppl must "hire" auditioners from the No2P2P
-from the SGD 35 audition fee pay us SGD30 as our fee.
We will judge if the band cmi or not. If is rejected by us, we will use our SGD 30 fee paid to us to refund to the band that cmi and they can perform our SBC no 2p 2 p gig ...
for the bands we deem can make it they can carry on and pay 2 play if they want. We auditioners keep the SGD 30 if they wish to go the way of p2p. However anytime they opt to play at a SBC gig - we will refund that band the SGD 30
sounds good?
pay to audition ppl must "hire" auditioners from the No2P2P
-from the SGD 35 audition fee pay us SGD30 as our fee.
We will judge if the band cmi or not. If is rejected by us, we will use our SGD 30 fee paid to us to refund to the band that cmi and they can perform our SBC no 2p 2 p gig ...
for the bands we deem can make it they can carry on and pay 2 play if they want. We auditioners keep the SGD 30 if they wish to go the way of p2p. However anytime they opt to play at a SBC gig - we will refund that band the SGD 30
sounds good?
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MadWerewolfBoy
New member
sounds a little confusing, but $30 looks the the amount i need to pay o'lando for a 2 hour jam.. $30 also looks like the amount i earn for one hour of tuition.. hmm.. maybe i should give more tuition so i can jam more!
wait, that totally leaves the audition part out of the picture.. can i just send in my demos / EPs / myspace / youtube / facebook / techrider? like that don't need to spend money for renting a place to show case our audition, my band can just spend the $30 on 2 hour jam slot at o'lando, we put tripod there and let the camera record.
wait.. that sounds like what i did for a recent competition with 1st prize money of $3000, 2nd $1000 and 3rd $600! damn, how did they manage to pump in $5000 cash for prizes for 50 bands that auditions with an entry fee of $10? DAMN IT I PAID TO PLAY!! !@#$
the $3000 was just too tasty la.. haha! ok, even if the event was not a competition, $5k divided by 50 bands it would be $100 per band. but only 8 bands performed at the finals! so that would be $625 per band. quite a decent amount, considering that it was held in a sch auditorium.. mmm
wait, that totally leaves the audition part out of the picture.. can i just send in my demos / EPs / myspace / youtube / facebook / techrider? like that don't need to spend money for renting a place to show case our audition, my band can just spend the $30 on 2 hour jam slot at o'lando, we put tripod there and let the camera record.
wait.. that sounds like what i did for a recent competition with 1st prize money of $3000, 2nd $1000 and 3rd $600! damn, how did they manage to pump in $5000 cash for prizes for 50 bands that auditions with an entry fee of $10? DAMN IT I PAID TO PLAY!! !@#$
the $3000 was just too tasty la.. haha! ok, even if the event was not a competition, $5k divided by 50 bands it would be $100 per band. but only 8 bands performed at the finals! so that would be $625 per band. quite a decent amount, considering that it was held in a sch auditorium.. mmm
fgl
Well-known member
why not approach your school (or a friend's school) to start your very own P4P movement - PLAY FOR PLEASURE ... get them to let u all use the auditorium when convinient ... get like minded guys and have REGULAR P4P SESSIONS THERE ..... no need to come out money, can get your schoolmates as audience ....
In fact such P4P sessions could be held in community centres, school auditotiums etc .... no need to wait for SBC t org a P4P gig - EVERYONE CAN EASILY DO A P4P gig ....
mockingbird
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sad fact
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LiveAMP studios DO NOT support ANY PAY TO PLAY FORMAT - Although it may make business sense for some, LiveAMP is against this. Personally, I am ok with auditioning because as organisers, you want to present bands who can entertain crowd. If the band can't make it, that means they are not yet prepared or ready - BUT BUT BUT, paying for auditioning is just a BIG NO NO.
In fact, for the just concluded LiveAMP gig, each band who performed get free hours jamming and a share of the door receipt - AS PAYMENT - not much (about $40 to $70 per band including free hours) but it is equitable - meaning it is 50%-50% brotherly split.
LiveAMP plans to hold concerts outside its studio in the future - there may be auditions but definitely no payment. The format will be similar as our studio gigs - its really about the love of music (I better keep my day job! lol).
In fact, for the just concluded LiveAMP gig, each band who performed get free hours jamming and a share of the door receipt - AS PAYMENT - not much (about $40 to $70 per band including free hours) but it is equitable - meaning it is 50%-50% brotherly split.
LiveAMP plans to hold concerts outside its studio in the future - there may be auditions but definitely no payment. The format will be similar as our studio gigs - its really about the love of music (I better keep my day job! lol).
Tetragrammaton
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Tetragrammaton
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Can I have a prata too please? Hehehe!!!Probably at the next SBCS meet-up; my treat brudder.
fgl
Well-known member
i think mocking might do a pay to eat prata for you la bro - hheeeee heee
trippyfactory
New member
Thanks Madwerewolfboy, thanks for your very comprehensive case study. Not perfect, but real good analysis.
After talking the folks from Heavy Metal Tribune, I think I have gotten myself in a mega-misunderstood position.
Yes, I request my artistes to sell tickets to promote the show and secure some funds to cover the initial cost. The initial payment from the bands is only the $35 audition fee. Which the selected bands will cover from the $100 honored to them.
But we do not force the artistes to buy the remaining unsold ones. They are free to return whatever is left with little or no obligations.
If the artistes has shown reasonable amount of effort to sell as best as they can, Trippy Factory will understand and still honor the $100 payment to them.
I hope this clears some air.
Kindest,
Trippy Factory
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trippyfactory
New member
Nope, I'll stick to once a year not because I am already making a loss the very first minute when I have decided to organize a gig. This hobby is becoming political and too draining.
It's real tiring to deal with people who doesn't know the machanics of organizing the a decent gig. They b**ch too much over $35 as an initial payment and forget to look at the big picture.
It seems that we have to use action instead of words to win this argument.
Just wait and see: Trippy Factory will work hard on Black Revelations 2011 and show the nay-sayers what we're made of.
Last post with kindness,
Trippy Factory
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