blueprintstudios
New member
see... this is what i'm talking about.. when there's a thread where there's more negativity than positivity. softies would just chip in and turn it into a good thread.
My Response To James.
- Thread starter roninriot
- Start date
- Status
Seven pages and no song! Shyte people! This is no good!
James, please don't make me work harder than I have to, ok? haha, just joking ah.
YouTube - This song is not about x-dressing"
Turn, Turn, Turn- The Byrds
James, please don't make me work harder than I have to, ok? haha, just joking ah.
YouTube - This song is not about x-dressing"
Turn, Turn, Turn- The Byrds
To everything, turn, turn, turn
There is a season, turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones
A time to gather stones together
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace
A time to refrain from embracing
A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of peace, I swear it’s not too late
There is a season, turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones
A time to gather stones together
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace
A time to refrain from embracing
A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of peace, I swear it’s not too late
I can say anything anywhere! "ANYTHING!"
K not funny.
Actually no, it's not that you can say 'anything' at the Speaker's Corner either. You have to first register with the police -- your speeches must avoid religion or any issues that may incite racial hostilities.
And speaking at there doesn't exempt anyone from our defamation and slander laws.
They'll probably have a hidden tape recorder there while you speak. Or even better, two policemen standing in front of you, noting every word you say!
:twisted:
roninriot
Banned
You are right. There is no freedom of speech in Singapore. It's a culture we have been accustomed to and have to live with.
With that being said, sorry for my late response. I was stuck in a meeting for the last hour where I was WISHING for freedom of speech to be able to say things like "Ok, can I not be at this silly meeting and come back to SOFT, please?" lol.
The thing is, I didn't mention freedom of speech in starting this post, did I? Look back to the beginning of the thread and you'll see I wasn't referring to it. It was another SOFTie which raised it, not me. I was simply pointing out the following
1) The post on the cosplayer was designed to raise issues, yes, but it was open to both positive and negative feedback from people. Within the first post itself, I expressed myself and what I thought of it, and asked people for opinions.
2) OPINIONS does not necessarily equal to FREEDOM OF SPEECH. An opinion can be self-moderated, self-censored and made consumable for the masses. I asked for opinions on the matter, not bashing, and I did not say "Hey guys, enjoy the freedom of expression here and bash the guy's ego". The start of this tread as well did not cite freedom of speech, that was raised by other SOFTies. So do not confuse OPINIONS with FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
3) I later went on with the post that I applauded his efforts, but to me, his choices didn't appeal to me. The cosplaying kid knew this to be true too, and that is why I cut and pasted a chunk from his blog to show it. He knew that people would react, and I am simply reacting, and hoping to share this reaction and get other people's reactions by posting here.
4) Most people chose to react negatively to it. Yet at your final post, James, you directly pointed the finger at me that this was my intention. It wasn't. And if you analyze what I had posted previously in the cosplay post, you will hopefully realize this too. Yet I was hoping that despite the negativity, some debate could have come out of it. I would dare to venture you reacted out of anger and as a moderator, you should at least see the post thoroughly first.
An example: Say I baked a cheese cake, and somebody comes around and urinates on it. And you are my mother and you shout at me "Ah boy! What are you trying to do by baking this cheese cake! Go to your room, no XBOX360" for you. And the guy who urinated on the cake goes off to play at the garden. Again, I'm making a light-hearted example, but the issue is within in.
5) Even if a majority of people choose to react negatively to something, there is always benefit to having a discussion to see how we can suss out the positives from the negatives. Even then, there are plenty of posts on SOFT that do not aspire to be negative or positive and are just plain random (Not just my stapler posting of course
) Governments do it in Parliament as well. When there was an economical crisis, they discussed on how to overcome it. They didn't sit by and said "Let's not talk about it because it upsets us".
That is also an issue I am raising here. Just because it is perceived as negative, does it mean we don't talk about it, James? On the contrary, in talking about a so-called 'negative' issue, you will also gather opinions from others, and hopefully, hear out the other side of the story as well to come to a more balanced conclusion.
6) The majority of the Internet IS filled with junk and negativity, like you said James, and that is true. But so is a large portion of real life and the daily newspapers. It is easier to see the negative than the positives in most cases.
For example, you saw it to be a 'negative' thread and immediately imposed your authority against me. But you didn't see a positiveness might have come out of it had you let more people voice out their opinions in support for the kid. It's human nature really, and all I am saying is, you should have at least moderated the 'too overtly harsh' comments instead of lashing out at me because it was the most convenient solution.
___
I hope I have explained myself more clearly this time. And I do not think I am being unreasonable in my justification of the issue either. And although you are the moderator and a respectable one for that matter with every right to impose choices made based on your personal judgment, I hope you can respect the opinion I am putting across in the hopes that SOFT will become even more versatile and open for discussion than it already is. You have done a truly commendable job so far (and will do so for many years) but I hope that SOFT doesn't become a forum where we simply talk about happy things and things that don't upset your personal senses.
I know that you are human subjected to personal emotions as well, but as a moderator, it is important that fairness be practiced and situations be scrutinized properly before you accuse. As a moderator, in all fairness, it is your duty to be even more responsible than the casual SOFT poster. It was the undertaking that you chose for yourself, and one that thousands will always applaud, but I believe that in case, you took the easy way out.
I'm sorry for saying it, but I believe that it is important to do so. I mean you no disrespect. If anything, I am only posting such long responses here because I have held SOFT close to my heart for all these years, as do many others here. And I have you to thank for it too. Frankly without SOFT, the local scene would be halved and shrink considerably because of the importance of this forum.
But please, you have to value the opinions of your loyal posters too and not shut them down simply in a fit of frustration or 'because you can'. And if you wish to do so, at least do so in a respectable way the way a moderator should. Once again I emphasis, I was asking for opinions, not trying to flag for freedom of speech. There is a difference.
In the end, I was SUPPORTING what the kid was trying to do while having my reservations on it too. And the proof is in the text I have cut and pasted below from the previous post. So I do not see how I was inciting 'bullying'.
______
As for this being not a music related topic, that is true. But I'm sure all of us will be able to find dozens of other non-music related topics on this forum as well. This is no different.
With that being said, sorry for my late response. I was stuck in a meeting for the last hour where I was WISHING for freedom of speech to be able to say things like "Ok, can I not be at this silly meeting and come back to SOFT, please?" lol.
The thing is, I didn't mention freedom of speech in starting this post, did I? Look back to the beginning of the thread and you'll see I wasn't referring to it. It was another SOFTie which raised it, not me. I was simply pointing out the following
1) The post on the cosplayer was designed to raise issues, yes, but it was open to both positive and negative feedback from people. Within the first post itself, I expressed myself and what I thought of it, and asked people for opinions.
2) OPINIONS does not necessarily equal to FREEDOM OF SPEECH. An opinion can be self-moderated, self-censored and made consumable for the masses. I asked for opinions on the matter, not bashing, and I did not say "Hey guys, enjoy the freedom of expression here and bash the guy's ego". The start of this tread as well did not cite freedom of speech, that was raised by other SOFTies. So do not confuse OPINIONS with FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
3) I later went on with the post that I applauded his efforts, but to me, his choices didn't appeal to me. The cosplaying kid knew this to be true too, and that is why I cut and pasted a chunk from his blog to show it. He knew that people would react, and I am simply reacting, and hoping to share this reaction and get other people's reactions by posting here.
4) Most people chose to react negatively to it. Yet at your final post, James, you directly pointed the finger at me that this was my intention. It wasn't. And if you analyze what I had posted previously in the cosplay post, you will hopefully realize this too. Yet I was hoping that despite the negativity, some debate could have come out of it. I would dare to venture you reacted out of anger and as a moderator, you should at least see the post thoroughly first.
An example: Say I baked a cheese cake, and somebody comes around and urinates on it. And you are my mother and you shout at me "Ah boy! What are you trying to do by baking this cheese cake! Go to your room, no XBOX360" for you. And the guy who urinated on the cake goes off to play at the garden. Again, I'm making a light-hearted example, but the issue is within in.
5) Even if a majority of people choose to react negatively to something, there is always benefit to having a discussion to see how we can suss out the positives from the negatives. Even then, there are plenty of posts on SOFT that do not aspire to be negative or positive and are just plain random (Not just my stapler posting of course
) Governments do it in Parliament as well. When there was an economical crisis, they discussed on how to overcome it. They didn't sit by and said "Let's not talk about it because it upsets us". That is also an issue I am raising here. Just because it is perceived as negative, does it mean we don't talk about it, James? On the contrary, in talking about a so-called 'negative' issue, you will also gather opinions from others, and hopefully, hear out the other side of the story as well to come to a more balanced conclusion.
6) The majority of the Internet IS filled with junk and negativity, like you said James, and that is true. But so is a large portion of real life and the daily newspapers. It is easier to see the negative than the positives in most cases.
For example, you saw it to be a 'negative' thread and immediately imposed your authority against me. But you didn't see a positiveness might have come out of it had you let more people voice out their opinions in support for the kid. It's human nature really, and all I am saying is, you should have at least moderated the 'too overtly harsh' comments instead of lashing out at me because it was the most convenient solution.
___
I hope I have explained myself more clearly this time. And I do not think I am being unreasonable in my justification of the issue either. And although you are the moderator and a respectable one for that matter with every right to impose choices made based on your personal judgment, I hope you can respect the opinion I am putting across in the hopes that SOFT will become even more versatile and open for discussion than it already is. You have done a truly commendable job so far (and will do so for many years) but I hope that SOFT doesn't become a forum where we simply talk about happy things and things that don't upset your personal senses.
I know that you are human subjected to personal emotions as well, but as a moderator, it is important that fairness be practiced and situations be scrutinized properly before you accuse. As a moderator, in all fairness, it is your duty to be even more responsible than the casual SOFT poster. It was the undertaking that you chose for yourself, and one that thousands will always applaud, but I believe that in case, you took the easy way out.
I'm sorry for saying it, but I believe that it is important to do so. I mean you no disrespect. If anything, I am only posting such long responses here because I have held SOFT close to my heart for all these years, as do many others here. And I have you to thank for it too. Frankly without SOFT, the local scene would be halved and shrink considerably because of the importance of this forum.
But please, you have to value the opinions of your loyal posters too and not shut them down simply in a fit of frustration or 'because you can'. And if you wish to do so, at least do so in a respectable way the way a moderator should. Once again I emphasis, I was asking for opinions, not trying to flag for freedom of speech. There is a difference.
In the end, I was SUPPORTING what the kid was trying to do while having my reservations on it too. And the proof is in the text I have cut and pasted below from the previous post. So I do not see how I was inciting 'bullying'.
______
As for this being not a music related topic, that is true. But I'm sure all of us will be able to find dozens of other non-music related topics on this forum as well. This is no different.
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roninriot
Banned
And on a side note:
To the poster who said fashion isn't a part of music,
Just think grunge, hair metal, Jrock, emo, disco, dance, techno, boy bands, etc, even jazz
What imagery (not audio) pops into your mind?
Well, it would be the dressing of your favourite idols and musical inspirations. Fashion and music is intertwined. That's how music marketing works.
To the poster who said fashion isn't a part of music,
Just think grunge, hair metal, Jrock, emo, disco, dance, techno, boy bands, etc, even jazz
What imagery (not audio) pops into your mind?
Well, it would be the dressing of your favourite idols and musical inspirations. Fashion and music is intertwined. That's how music marketing works.
i heard abt this wahahhaa
roninriot
Banned
Ok James,
You posted this in the other thread
“For fellow SOFTies, how would you feel if you are singled out and made fun of? This is bullying. We don't want to be on the receiving end but neither should we be bullying others.”
And you went on to say it was MY intention to do so and that I 1) Have no clue 2) Am hungry for attention.
Now here is what my EXACT responses were during the course of the entire thread. I do not see how I was instigating bullying or making fun of him.
”Okay, I think this is a pretty admirable thing for him to say.
It is brave of him to stand up for what he believes is true to who he is.
And that is more than what most people can lay claim to.
Except maybe, the last line was a bit of an anti climax "i am not sure"
It would have been cooler if he showed he had a clear objective to continue proving his skeptics wrong.
Kudos to him for that.”
” At the end of the day, I'll respect him. I respect anyone who does their own thing against the odds.
But it doesn't mean I shouldn't make a post about it for you guys to generate your opinions on it ”
"Besides, this topic wasn't started off disrespectfully. I just said, I find it looks weird. By all means, if a guy can pull off cross-dressing, I find it admirable. Not everyone can do it."
Please James, tell me how I was instigating what you accused me of? Because I baked the cheese cake that people urinated on (cited from previous example)? It would be nice to have an apology from you, even if you are the moderator and I am just a mere fan of the forum. Because I think I have made the case as fair and as clear with proof as humanly possible. At the end of the day, it isn't about the cosplay kid but about SOFT in itself and the principles of it.
But even if you don't, I understand. You are still my Internet Chuck Norris!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for all the years of awesome forum-ing for the local scene, James.
P.S: This kinda reminds me of a parent / child argument at home over milk. lol!
P.P.S: And as for why I didn't post on MySpace or Facebook, it's simply because I was curious to narrow down and see the opinions of fellow Singaporeans, and SOFT is the main Singapore-based forum I always visit. If I had posted on say, SGforums or sammyboy or hardwarezone, I think it would have been nuttier!
You posted this in the other thread
“For fellow SOFTies, how would you feel if you are singled out and made fun of? This is bullying. We don't want to be on the receiving end but neither should we be bullying others.”
And you went on to say it was MY intention to do so and that I 1) Have no clue 2) Am hungry for attention.
Now here is what my EXACT responses were during the course of the entire thread. I do not see how I was instigating bullying or making fun of him.
”Okay, I think this is a pretty admirable thing for him to say.
It is brave of him to stand up for what he believes is true to who he is.
And that is more than what most people can lay claim to.
Except maybe, the last line was a bit of an anti climax "i am not sure"
It would have been cooler if he showed he had a clear objective to continue proving his skeptics wrong.
Kudos to him for that.”
” At the end of the day, I'll respect him. I respect anyone who does their own thing against the odds.
But it doesn't mean I shouldn't make a post about it for you guys to generate your opinions on it ”
"Besides, this topic wasn't started off disrespectfully. I just said, I find it looks weird. By all means, if a guy can pull off cross-dressing, I find it admirable. Not everyone can do it."
Please James, tell me how I was instigating what you accused me of? Because I baked the cheese cake that people urinated on (cited from previous example
)? It would be nice to have an apology from you, even if you are the moderator and I am just a mere fan of the forum. Because I think I have made the case as fair and as clear with proof as humanly possible. At the end of the day, it isn't about the cosplay kid but about SOFT in itself and the principles of it.But even if you don't, I understand. You are still my Internet Chuck Norris!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for all the years of awesome forum-ing for the local scene, James.
P.S: This kinda reminds me of a parent / child argument at home over milk. lol!
P.P.S: And as for why I didn't post on MySpace or Facebook, it's simply because I was curious to narrow down and see the opinions of fellow Singaporeans, and SOFT is the main Singapore-based forum I always visit. If I had posted on say, SGforums or sammyboy or hardwarezone, I think it would have been nuttier!
Last edited:
Ken
New member
You asked for an opinion and I will give mine after having stumbled on this thread.
Well Ronin, regardless of your intentions in the last post about the cosplay boy, the effects were still real: Unnecessary heckling and bullying.
In my view (Not carrying any balls here, I don;t even talk to James at all), James closed it down from a humanistic perspective, to stop what had become a vaudeville show at the expense of the boy you featured.
It doesn't matter if you defended the boy, the fact is that it already moved on beyond a discussion into a "stone throwing" session.
If that to you is a good example of an open forum for opinions, then I am afraid me and I suspect many unspoken others here do not agree.
Talk is cheap but responsibility is not. James took a strong arm tactic in shutting you down. Sure in the blue book of "freedom", "open market place of ideas" etc he probably did wrong. But in the terms of that one human being (cosplay boy) who he has, in his own prerogative, defended against more unnecessary heckling, you tell me, which is the lesser evil?
If you work in the media as has been suggested here, then you too will know that there are many things we can discuss and talk about, its just what we choose to talk about and how we do it.
Censorship is no match for a strong message woven intelligently and subtlely.
A common thing i face in the line of my work is always this: Do I expose this story for public discussion (or amusement) or do I not. There's no right or wrong, just a personal ethic guiding my actions. For me I choose to stand on the side of the real people involved.
Lofty ideas when it comes to opinions or even freedom are nothing compared to a single human being's dignity.
James took his stand and I respect that but I do not stand for this endless rant which in my view is going way too long.
Well Ronin, regardless of your intentions in the last post about the cosplay boy, the effects were still real: Unnecessary heckling and bullying.
In my view (Not carrying any balls here, I don;t even talk to James at all), James closed it down from a humanistic perspective, to stop what had become a vaudeville show at the expense of the boy you featured.
It doesn't matter if you defended the boy, the fact is that it already moved on beyond a discussion into a "stone throwing" session.
If that to you is a good example of an open forum for opinions, then I am afraid me and I suspect many unspoken others here do not agree.
Talk is cheap but responsibility is not. James took a strong arm tactic in shutting you down. Sure in the blue book of "freedom", "open market place of ideas" etc he probably did wrong. But in the terms of that one human being (cosplay boy) who he has, in his own prerogative, defended against more unnecessary heckling, you tell me, which is the lesser evil?
If you work in the media as has been suggested here, then you too will know that there are many things we can discuss and talk about, its just what we choose to talk about and how we do it.
Censorship is no match for a strong message woven intelligently and subtlely.
A common thing i face in the line of my work is always this: Do I expose this story for public discussion (or amusement) or do I not. There's no right or wrong, just a personal ethic guiding my actions. For me I choose to stand on the side of the real people involved.
Lofty ideas when it comes to opinions or even freedom are nothing compared to a single human being's dignity.
James took his stand and I respect that but I do not stand for this endless rant which in my view is going way too long.
blueprintstudios
New member
ok. this is boring. endless. I'm unsuscribing this thread. have fun you guys.
AgingYouth
New member
So what are we doing for SOFT's 10th anniversary?
vickomaniac
New member
kudos to ken for effectively bringing your point across.
yes, whatever roninriot's intentions instarting the thread, it has tuned into a mockery of the boy, who does not deserve this as he probably gets enough flak from friends and family.
so we could play our part by not ADDING ON to such hurtful criticism, and in any case you find the boy's actions gay/lame/weird/abnormal, we should keep our views to ourselves, and honestly, going to the extent of commenting on his blog, was just pushing too far.
roninriot, most of us know who you really are, and there are a good deal of people who surf soft that respect/like/idolize you.
perhaps you started said thread in good fun and humor, but in the internet, it is really hard to tell as a full blown insult can be passed of a joke.
younger/more easily influenced softies may feel the need to follow in your footsteps and post similar threads, with the intent of humiliating others as they believe imitation is the greatest form of flattery, and will do what you do, to emulate you.
im not taking sides, i've been warned before for making out-of-point posts too, but it would be nice if we didnt post such stuff on a widely visited forum, where hundreds of people frequent. the thread wont end unless it is closed or deleted, so perhaps, roninriot, why don't you be the big man and end this in a civil manner, and any other issues can be personally settled with james.
just my 6.1932312 cents.
yes, whatever roninriot's intentions instarting the thread, it has tuned into a mockery of the boy, who does not deserve this as he probably gets enough flak from friends and family.
so we could play our part by not ADDING ON to such hurtful criticism, and in any case you find the boy's actions gay/lame/weird/abnormal, we should keep our views to ourselves, and honestly, going to the extent of commenting on his blog, was just pushing too far.
roninriot, most of us know who you really are, and there are a good deal of people who surf soft that respect/like/idolize you.
perhaps you started said thread in good fun and humor, but in the internet, it is really hard to tell as a full blown insult can be passed of a joke.
younger/more easily influenced softies may feel the need to follow in your footsteps and post similar threads, with the intent of humiliating others as they believe imitation is the greatest form of flattery, and will do what you do, to emulate you.
im not taking sides, i've been warned before for making out-of-point posts too, but it would be nice if we didnt post such stuff on a widely visited forum, where hundreds of people frequent. the thread wont end unless it is closed or deleted, so perhaps, roninriot, why don't you be the big man and end this in a civil manner, and any other issues can be personally settled with james.
just my 6.1932312 cents.
i think james hit the nail on the head (you can see from the thread title [OMG WTF is this?] ) when he said
"roninriot, when you posted this topic, you already know that it would become flammable and cos much stress to the forum community."
anyway, have fun debating this topic. i'm going back to lurking
"roninriot, when you posted this topic, you already know that it would become flammable and cos much stress to the forum community."
anyway, have fun debating this topic. i'm going back to lurking
roninriot, thank you for taking time to write out your feelings/feedback, that is much appreciated.
I will not go into what Freedom of Speech cos that is something too 'law'.
I hope that this will serve as a reminder to every user on SOFT, your post will invoke a thought which will then create a feeling. These feelings will affect the whole community. If we have good feelings, we will take actions that will have good results.
roninriot, you must remember that you have the power to help people, as seen in the LIME CD. Everyone has to work together toward a better tomorrow.
I will not go into what Freedom of Speech cos that is something too 'law'.
I hope that this will serve as a reminder to every user on SOFT, your post will invoke a thought which will then create a feeling. These feelings will affect the whole community. If we have good feelings, we will take actions that will have good results.
roninriot, you must remember that you have the power to help people, as seen in the LIME CD. Everyone has to work together toward a better tomorrow.
A bit unfair, no, vick?
I certainly don't agree with all ronin said (there are some valid points).
But +1 to him for staying even-tempered.
I have seen worse elsewhere.
I think as long as emotions/egos don't get in the way (and here, let's give both sides the benefit of the doubt on this), then it is a contest of ideas and opinions. Argued well and cogently, the discourse can be illuminating - sometimes we may take too many things for granted and it's good to have our views challenged, validated or overturned, as the case may be.
vickomaniac
New member
okay i guess my sentence got misinterpretated.
i meant it in the way that he should be the one to end this as after all, he started the thread.
and from the looks of it, if no one ends this thread, it'll go on forever.
i meant it in the way that he should be the one to end this as after all, he started the thread.
and from the looks of it, if no one ends this thread, it'll go on forever.
dir
New member
performing in drag!
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