My reply to James (ultrasound scam thread)

ShyamRaj

New member
James said

I will close this thread now as things are getting more personal than objective. Music is a business in the real world. We can talk all we want on SOFT but out there, money talks.
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James. You close a thread that is addressing a crucial issue in our music scene. How wasnt the thread an objective thread when it was suggesting a non-profit organisation to help out.

You did not even give a tip to the bands who want to a DIY gig , not even give a constructive input but just blindly close the thread ?

We are talking about someone who has gone out to hold someones ic and say that he denied live and loaded the bands details . WHich is a rejected platform to bands .

Isnt this an issue to be dealt with ? I wonder why you havent closed his threads then. We are just giving a heads up to other bands . Instead of contributing to its contamination of the local sceane.

Anyway its your call rite ?

Music is a business and so you say. And improving the scene is up to us. Not everyone looks at it in a profitable way. Money talks ? So is that your ideaolagy of music at its purest form ?

SO answer me james . Is soft.com all about the money then ?
 
well ShyamRaj

I am disappointed that you start a thread in a similar fashion as another ex-softie.

No worries, I know you are just hot at the moment, so I will reply to you so that you can see the bigger picture.

10 years of running SOFT, what do you think I do it for? Ask yourself if you have done anything for 10 years without income?

Cost to produce 1 episode of Live and Loaded? Maybe around $20k to $30k.

Cost to produce 1 DIY gig? Maybe around $1k.

Cost to be a musician? $500 (guitar starter kit)

Cost to be a SOFTie? Free

I closed the thread to prevent you from being sued. That should save you some money.
 
well ShyamRaj

I am disappointed that you start a thread in a similar fashion as another ex-softie.

No worries, I know you are just hot at the moment, so I will reply to you so that you can see the bigger picture.

10 years of running SOFT, what do you think I do it for? Ask yourself if you have done anything for 10 years without income?

Cost to produce 1 episode of Live and Loaded? Maybe around $20k to $30k.

Cost to produce 1 DIY gig? Maybe around $1k.

Cost to be a musician? $500 (guitar starter kit)

Cost to be a SOFTie? Free

I closed the thread to prevent you from being sued. That should save you some money.

well james first of all let me address that i do know and have payed close attention to the choice of words that had used to prevent me from being sued. After all , this is a public forum where we are entitled to freedom of speach , experiences and anything to do with music and the sceane.

I didnt like the fact the you potrayed music to be a money thingy because ultimately it isnt .

True to be a softie its free. But to help the sceane its priceless aswell .. :)
And we understand that you have gone thru alot for soft. It has helped alot . It will continue to help and KUDOS to that.

The way you said you went 10 years without income for soft is the way some musicians and bands go 10 years or so without income for their music and bands. So it isnt all about the money sometimes rite :)

Glad we cleared this . So any suggestions or would you be intrested to help out this non-profit organisation ? what do u think of it as an idea and how do we start off ?
 
Making your OWN gig

Firstly I hope no one will flame me down for giving suggestions like this, (Especially organisers). I’ve seen the recent discussion about gig organisers, scams and making your own gig. But I realised I’ve seen them(these discussions) in my early years when I was younger too .(Don’t ask for my age very sensitive subject)ha-ha. In my early days, I had no idea how to do these things and how much it costs. But as timed past people like shym raj(takes),angry(sound salvation),visa(armchaircritc) and many other elders and frens have thought me and my band many things..Such as equipment rental and such. I thot i boil down the rough math for u on making a gig possible.

Now lets make a simple comparison between your OWN gig and a gig with some other organiser.


A gig with some organiser.
You need to pay,lets say 10 dollars(average price) and sell 20 tickets that adds up to = 200 dollars.
Now 200 dollars a band is alot of money!! Thats almost like 40 dollars from each band member to play for a gig where you MIGHT not be happy.


Now imagine this.Surely you have friends who have bands. Can u gather 5 bands like this? Not very hard you noe.Just go to myspace and msg them thats how i got to know shym raj, wei wen(for this cycle) and many other artist not to mention you have probably been to a gig make some friends with bands you like.I’ve nvr EVER been given a cold shoulder from any band i’ve approached infact we end up having a good convo.
Now 5 bands imagine if the 5 bands each person in the band pitches 50 bugs that adds up to
$50x5 membersx5 bands =....wait i take calculator...ok $1250 dollars

Equipment rental ,amps ,a drum kit plus monitors will cost you lets say 600 to 700 dollars at max.meaning you have a remainder of 750 dollars with this money u can surely find a good place to hold a gig.Many places even let u use the place for free,like if im not wrong *scape lets u use their lab for free on some day i read about it somewhere here in soft.And there are many other places here in Singapore.Just check with the Singapore arts council.You’re doing a non profit arts event(yes you head banging up there on a stage is a art...not everyone can do it).

Now heres the IMPORTANT part.You don’t wanna fork out $1250 and not get it back. Lets jus say u charge a measly 6 dollars compared to 12 or 10...all u need is 208.333333333 people to come that boils down to jus 41.8 ppl for band....which is actually very sensible.

Now there are alot of variable things, you can charge less for tickets if your not SO interested in profit,you can approach youth organisations to help.According to my knowledge (taken from a manager of a community club,the community centres do have funds to help the youth.Contact http://www.paym.org.sg/ for more info. So you see i might not have a alot of info but heres smthing to start with i hope other softies will add in.

Cause its time we did something rather then sit in our chairs and grumble

A special thank you to people like shaym raj and the many others who are striving for the young.
 
I think you should do a for-profit gig! If the music is good, you should be paid for it.

Here's the game plan / budget / work

Find out all the necessary costing by calling up MI/PA rental and venue owner.

Find x number of bands who are interested and divide the cost among yourself.

Promote the gig like crazy, pull all your friends, family, relatives and stranger you met along.

SOFT will sponsor $500 worth of advertising space on the website.

You got to do the hard work though.

ShyamRaj, are you ready to take on this role?
 
I guess what Shyam Raj brought up is crucial to the scene and your way of dealing with that thread is somewhat restricting on people knowing the truth. It's the internet, flamings and shootings are supposed to happen in the forums. That's where people know which side to choose and which not to choose.

I kinda feel that that thread was very useful as being a victim of that scam in the past due to inexperience.
 
I think you should do a for-profit gig! If the music is good, you should be paid for it.

Here's the game plan / budget / work

Find out all the necessary costing by calling up MI/PA rental and venue owner.

Find x number of bands who are interested and divide the cost among yourself.

Promote the gig like crazy, pull all your friends, family, relatives and stranger you met along.

SOFT will sponsor $500 worth of advertising space on the website.

You got to do the hard work though.

ShyamRaj, are you ready to take on this role?


Yeah i will be working on this. Let me sit down and plan something out . And thanks for the offer james it will come in handy. I need ppl to come forward and be part of this. One man can do everything aswell u know.. pm if you are interested.
 
I foresee this to be a great step forward for our local young music industry!

Shyam, you have my support! Pm-ed!
 
i like how the argument actually turned into co-operation.

don't see that too often at all in ANY field.

my hat (if i wore one) off to both James and Shyam. Should you ever need a chinese rock band do contact me :D
 
my honest view to TS and musicians here...

This tossing to and fro of opinions have been very heated I must say. I do feel that you have a right to say what you feel and you will be held responsible for those words. But you should take note that being someone who wants to really make it in the music industry, you showed a lack of self control with your emotions, unprofessional conduct in a forum and an unglamorous attitude toward the Creator of S.O.F.T.com., namely, James. People do remember and it's unwise to let off steam in an uncontrolled manner.


To all who seek to benefit from making great music, the answer is not found until you ask the right questions...

1) Is making music a hobby or a profession for you at this point of time?

- are you a poly student going to school, studying maths/english/physics for X number of hours a day or are you a guitarist taking lessons from 7am to 1pm and practicing for an extra 3 hours after that? There is a vast difference here between the 2.

- know where you stand at this point of time as a student/musician and manage your expectations accordingly.

- if you are doing it for your passion and love for music, then just let it be that way. Play for your school concerts, teachers' day, founder's day, sports day, local estate RC/CC events, charity events, go busking, serenade to your gf, write songs to appreciate your teachers, join the school band, perform in front of your families, join jamming sessions where you only have to buy a drink to play, there are plenty other options out there to explore where money is not involved.



2) Have you paid your dues as a student of your craft? eg. bass, drums, guitars, physics, chemistry, E Maths, History etc...?

- unless you're a prodigy like Marcus Miller, Tony Royster, you would probably have to woodshed till you're about 21-25 till someone would take very good notice of you as a musician. Even then, you would probably be paid very little still. $70-$100?? More if you really work your butt off. $120??

- would you expect a fresh grad to be able to earn what an experienced management executive earns? don't expect organizers/ companies to headhunt you unless you're a scholar from Juliard/ Harvard. When I was 17, I was only in "Primary school" in my knowledge and experience as a drummer. Now I'm in "Secondary School".

- similarly, where do you stand currently?
Know yourself, know your enemy, win 1000 battles. Your enemy is not the organizer, nor the people who want to profit cos making a profit is in everybody's mind in every arena of life, it's just a matter of how they make it and how much. Banks do it, loan sharks do it, even the auntie who sells you fishball noodles do it. So wise up and learn to be smart, but don't let your emotions get the better of you. Pick yourself up, brush off the dust off your body, clean up those wounds and move on with the same drive, enthusiasm, charisma and work your butt off once again. You would be better off brain storming with your band mates rather than shooting others down.



3) Where and how can you acquire funding for an act if you were the organizer?
- put yourself in other people's shoes and see things from their perspective. You might learn a thing or two. I know I have many times.

- as you have realized by now I am sure, money is hard to earn. Count your cents, add them up, then work from there. Expect people to shove and push you along cos you have to add value to their lives before they give you anything in return. I would love to have my cake and eat it most times and it's unrealistic to expect anything if you have not put in something.

- would you pay to see yourself play? If not, then why would you expect others to pay to watch you play?



4) Do you have the means and drive to last the long haul? Eg 10-25 years of your life?
- Be thankful for what you have... SOFT.com, L&L, Esplanade, jamming studios priced reasonably, your precious instruments, buddies in the band who stick by you.

- Be driven but don't become an idealist. Once again, manage your expectations. Work like mad, practice like crazy and hope for the best.

- When I was gigging in NYC while studying there, my band leader did all the work promoting, emailing, advertising the band on the web, paying out of her own pocket for our rehearsal fees, performance fees, making sure everyone liked her, always having a great attitude, not easily disappointed, always appreciating those who have helped her (esp her band mates and her manager), always smiling and making people around her feel comfortable, being likable as a person.

We played to a packed house full of her fans (she obviously did her homework), when the next act came up, everyone left except my band. We were their "fans". LOL! Obviously, they didn't do their homework even though they were really really good musicians. The singer sang back up vocals for an R&B star and had some serious pipes so we're not talking about some amateur croaking to an empty room.

And oh, you know what? I had to lug all my equipment for gigs and auditions. My pedals, cymbals, drums and stuff! I was taking the subway and feeling like I was going on a route march in the city. Here in Singapore, we have it good in the sense that almost everything is provided so be thankful!

Btw, good musicians are a dime in a dozen in NYC, the superstars you see and read about are probably the tip of the top 1% in the music business in the USA.

And yes, they have to make a lot of other people rich too, their managers, band mates, tech crew, bus driver, sound engineer, record company and plenty others who depend on them for a living. Guess how much they make at the end of a 6 month tour that would have to feed all those people PLUS their families? You have to be pulling in some serious money if you want to be a huge star. Why do you think some of them do drugs, alcohol, pot and suffer from depression? It's all work and no play!

So, dream big and work hard but don't give up when it gets really really tough. The tough part, I can guarantee you WILL happen even if you fulfill the first two conditions.

God bless you and may you find your peace to fulfill your dreams.

PS I think you owe James some nice words...
 
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ERRRRrrmmm CHewy , what are you going on about ? James and me are cool. Infact he has volunteered to help...i think you are on the wrong thread dude.. hahaha that was damn funny la.. from no where that msg came.anyway that isnt important..

Alritey guys. Thanks to all the PM's and your comments. Unfortunately i dont have time to msg back all of them but i will need all your help non-the less .

I will be registering a company for this organisation tom. i will absorb the cost or the registering . It will be called Rock Unity "bringing the sceane together"

So far alot of people have comefoward to help in the most immense ways. James , Visa , Ahmad K, Morgan, Jaarvis,Zamir,Marteenz and alot more, you know who you are.

Yes many of us have had our disputes here on this forum but its great to see everyone coming together today.

I need a favour from all of you.

pls list your names , emails and line of expertise e.g photography , reviews , poster designers , bouncers (haha,), web designers,logo designers, web mantainers,organisers or anything . Basically how you could volunteer in this organisation and even if you feel you got nothing to offer but wanna be part of it pls put your name down .Any support is still support...

Most importantly now we need web designers and someone to mantain by updating it.

this is an example. please continue.

Once again thank you all for coming together . spread the word! TODAY IS THE DAY p2p gigs will slowly come to an end . The main aim is to help the local scene and this time we all play a part. Once everything is settled we all can meet up to finalise what are the extra things that can be involved in the site and ways to better the sceane. James I hope Soft.com can join in aswell ..

CHange has begun ...

1. Shyam Raj - musicbyshyamraj@gmail.com / organizer , reviews , hookups
 
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We HAVE freedom of speech??? Many a time I keep my mouth shut cos the truth can land your ass in jail.
 
ShyamRaj, why register a company when you just want to DIY gig? Keep it simple.
 
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