Muslims and alcohol

[billthegeek]

Off topic .. but Bill (if that's your name) - your digital art pieces are really nice!

I've always wanted to be really good with 3D modeling and animation...

Heh you went off topic here too. Thanks for the compliment anyway. I still a noob at digital art.

 

[hecklerkoch]

Heh you went off topic here too. Thanks for the compliment anyway. I still a noob at digital art.

No no.. I mean, what I was about to say about your digital art was off topic (from this thread) lah..

Bish!

:mrgreen:

 

[balloons]

I saw a lot of malays drinking in public, the young ones in Pubs/clubs

older ones in coffeshops.

and some malays drink during Fasting month,

and one malay order pork from chinese stall.

 

[zullio]

balloons: malay doesn't equal to muslim.

 

[hecklerkoch]

I saw a lot of malays drinking in public, the young ones in Pubs/clubs

older ones in coffeshops.

and some malays drink during Fasting month,

and one malay order pork from chinese stall.

Luckily you said 'Malay' and not 'Muslims'.

Malay is a race and Islam is a religion and Muslims are practitioners of Islam.

The truth is some of them are 'Muslims' by name only, though it is 'politically incorrect' to label another as such, if you are a Muslim, be it a Malay Muslim, Indian Muslim, Chinese Muslim or Ang Moh Muslim.

IMHO, this kind of 'observation' ie. I saw Malays drinking and eating pork, has absolutely no benefits (intellectual or otherwise) at all to a discussion like this.

 

[LadyInTears]

some people type without thinking..
such comments would only lead to a racial debate. which in turn brings disharmony to SOFT

 

[zax]

balloons: malay doesn't equal to muslim.

lets face it , 98% of the Malay population in singapore follow Islam

 

[zullio]

zax: so there you go.. thats the 2% that balloons happen to see..

but as heckler as mentioned,

IMHO, this kind of 'observation' ie. I saw Malays drinking and eating pork, has absolutely no benefits (intellectual or otherwise) at all to a discussion like this.

 

[Ang3L]

I saw a lot of malays drinking in public, the young ones in Pubs/clubs

older ones in coffeshops.

and some malays drink during Fasting month,

and one malay order pork from chinese stall.

 

[EzaRitualBella]

imo





smooching around here and there also kena video tape get caught by law.


cmon ah
in a place where crime rate is triple than us.
and yet tends to follow the islamic law like no drinking for malays all this
i find it kinda funny.

look at us.
we are free to make the decision we make .
we drink what we like
we party what we like
we blablabla what we like

so yeah....
all that matters is their own personality.

the more strictness there is the more rebelion there will be

 

[THOA]

Religion should adapt with modern changes. Past traditions which may be useful once upon a time, may no longer be relevant today.

There is difference between religion and tradition.

Traditions are ways of life to help adapt to time. Religion shelf life was meant to stretch for the life span of human beings.

I believe that if religion is to be adaptive, it can no longer be considered a religion. Is Confucianism a religion? And, if you really dissect it, is Buddhism really a religion even?

When a religion was formed, and 2000 years later they are still being practiced, there has got to be more to it than just a set of philosophies or traditions strung together.

Religion has its purpose:

1) It unites the people who follows it. One faith, one mind, one direction, one family.
2) It guides life through a set of values and laws for its people to be the best they can possibly be.

Also, I believe that if religion is to adapt then it will be a set of individual philosophies whereby no one true form is correct. I can always say that Muhammad's teachings of the Koran or Jesus' teaching of the Bible is relevant then but not now. I take what I want to take, practice what I want to practice, and leave out what I don't want. If religion can be so easily adapted, I can say that God exist but He is irrelevant now.

Heck, I can even say MORALITY is irrelevant, seeing how morality stems from religion.

If I were to adapt an "adapt to modern changes" approach, I WILL steal, rape, fight and murder, as and when I feel justified to do so. My excuse? "I am acting on my primal instincts of a human being", "Conformity is the new religion, and thus I am escaping from that religion that I do not wish to follow" or "If society can adapt to the changes of mindset, then society can accept the changes of MY mindset".

We will live by our own rules, with nothing to clearly define us as human beings. Religion may seem backwards to us now. But if we were to let everyone follow their own adaptive thinking of life, we will eventually be more backdated than the religion itself. Everybody will have their own answer, with no standards to live, and thus it becomes a modern stone age way of living.

 

[Vocalistman]

My Malay friends drinks and they even encourage me to drink. Which I have no problem because I do drink.

But I think, back to the main case here, it is just how the country decides to 'govern' the lives of their people. That's why you see there so much differences between Malaysian malays/muslims, Singaporean malay/muslims and even Indonesian indo/muslims. These 3 category of people are so different yet they all are under the same lineage or malay archipelago blood. Believe it or not, I think it is the government that actually shapes the society.

Because once the society decides to do something that go against the law, but actually practiced, the government will try to 'play-god' (by deciding to punish them)and stop you (the girl). Who are they to tell you what to do and what not? As long as it contributes to the society(in the case, the girl is working well) I don't see the problem with that, she is old enough to decide for herself.

So in my opinion, if alcohol is really bad to your health and it is against the religion for some, why not just leave it to the One above to punish you?

See, bottom-line is, it all thanks politics that such case happened.

/* and no, I'm not trying to shoot any government or any race.

 

[vx02]

only God shall judge. period.

 

[zullio]

EzaRitualBella: actually the Malaysian Gov't follows the Islamic Law is because they proudly proclaim themselves as an Islamic Nation. that is the main(or only) reason the uphold the Islamic Law.

and the people get charged because i believe, the Malaysian Gov't wants to show its citizens that they will be taking matters of religion seriously.

but it brings me to a question, why don't they charge the MANY celebrities who OPENLY club and drink as well.

 

[EzaRitualBella]

well there's always twist and turn

 

[hecklerkoch]

My Malay friends drinks and they even encourage me to drink. Which I have no problem because I do drink.

But I think, back to the main case here, it is just how the country decides to 'govern' the lives .....

Bro, sorry no harm or malice intended but I personally find your argument and analogies a bit flawed.

Rules and regulations have been set in place by civilization since God knows when, with the sole purpose of maintaining social order, to benefit the society at large.

Laws are written purposefully, with logical objectives in mind, made through consensus by a group of people, maybe complemented by real statistics which subsequently require the laws to be passed, so that people do not do as they please, and possibly harm others in the process.

If Malaysia decides that it has a real problem with its citizens following Muslim law, resulting in unwanted pregnancies, teenage abortions, incest, molest, rape, drunk driving, murder, vandalism etc. and has valid proof that all or most of these cases of crime is a result of alcohol abuse, supplemented by the fact that it is prohibited by Islam, then we can do shit about it because logically, it may benefit their people in someway or the other.

What's caning compared to lives lost and destroyed by a drunk, or an intoxicated man who may have absolutely no intention to commit crimes otherwise, but did so after he had too many to drink?

Yes, you can always say "Oh, I know my limits and I am sure I won't do harm bla bla bla.." but once something happens and you cause death and destruction, you'd think otherwise.

This DOES NOT mean I am totally against drinking though.

If you are smart and responsible enough to do everything to prevent an accident or tragedy, you can still drink and enjoy life, and be merry. Absolutely no one can stop you.

But if any country decides to implement any kind of law with the sole purpose of protecting the public at large, then you'd have to abide by them if you wish and have chosen to call that country your home.

 

[EngelFaeuste]

Heck, I can even say MORALITY is irrelevant, seeing how morality stems from religion.

Our favourite evolutionary biologist Professor Richard Dawkins over at Oxford would take you to task for that statement. Morality does NOT stem from religion. Altruistic behaviour is doubtlessly evolutionary, it is common sense that we would not want to live in society where rape and murder was perfectly acceptable as we, as a species would wipe ourselves out. Hence communities which followed a certain sort of moral code would survive while those who do not have any such codes wired into their brains wiped themselves out. Hence through the process of NATURAL SELECTION (NOT INTELLIGENT DESIGN MIND YOU), humans developed what we now know as MORALITY.

Laws and morality is something that society put in place to legitimize what has been developed through evolution.

All of what you are discussing now are laid out in a series of well penned, albeit strongly worded essays in Dawkins' book - The God Delusion.

 

[wyldeboon]

this thread is getting more interesting and off topic...








*runs to get stout and kacang

 

[hecklerkoch]

this thread is getting more interesting and off topic...

*runs to get stout and kacang

Alamak, drink stout with two raw eggs inside better what!

Can go on and on and on and on, like Energizer bunny.

:mrgreen:

 

[EngelFaeuste]

What's a kacang? Anyway, why run off to get a stout? Get yourself a painkiller, it's a killer Rum cocktail, never actually seen it served in Singapore though.