looking for a head+cab, what to get?

[ciel21]

ok im not too familar with how orchestra settings go, would it be better to mic up?

if your cranking up a stack at loud volumes, i was wondering if it might upset the balance of the sound since you will be situated at 1 side of th stage and all.

The AVTs are not bad hybrid amps but for fusion and funk im not sure abt it, the cleans are not bad but not fantastic. Maybe something in the Fender Camp might be better?

 

[theblueark]

I think I didn't make it clear, I play with my bro's concert band. if you've read my post in the gigs and concert forums last time, you'd know that I play beside an entire orchestra of about 80++ people with trumpets and tubas. I play mainly pop, fusion or funk pieces for them, but I still do need good distortion for my own use.

As to where I play, I plan to keep this amp I'm trying to get at home and only lug it to the rehearsal spot when required. At around 1 or 2 months to the concert, I'd bring it there and leave it there for a the time being.

I don't plan to crank it up at home, maybe during weekends or holidays since that's the only time i can crank anything up.

I read through 5 pages of this and I still have no idea what you want. Can you put it in point form like 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Cos right now what I'm getting is something like this:
1. Must be cheap
2. Must be able to work with an entire orchestra
3. Must be good for pop, fusion or funk
4. On the other hand must have good distortion
5. On the 3rd hand I'm using my POD which I don't want to sell
6. I want to leave it at home
7. And also bring it around
8. It doesn't have to be loud
9. Unless I crank it up on weekends
10. I want a stack cos it gives me a hard on and people will bow down to me
11. But it has to work in an orchestra
12. I don't want to mic it up
13. But I like my pod through a pa
14. But I want an amp
15. Ya.
16. That's about it.

By the way a 15W amp will be able to sound louder than any one of the instruments in the orchestra. With the exception of the giant gong.

 

[MrE]

hahahhahaa

blueark, you must have very good at doing the 'Summary' section in the English exam papers back in sec school days (on a side note, wonder if they still have that nowadays)

 

[Vaiyen]

haahah good one blueark.

 

[gjkung]

I only appreciated the first two lines of that.

which I shall follow.

Budget: <$2000
Genre: Backing for pop/fusion/funk stuff(no leads, and I hardly play anything that requires sparkling cleans), but I play metal and rock mainly on my own.
Band size: around 80 people, concert band.
Current sound gear, Podxt Live, 15 watt peavey practice amp.
Other info: Loud enough to play alongside the band without miking(the band will be miked as a whole, part of most stage arrangements), I don't want the sound to be "over" the band. I'm not interested in miking a small amp, if that's the case I'd rather plug my Pod direct through PA.

theblueark, I hope you do realise that I'm not playing with a solo instrument, I'm playing with a band. My 15 watt is definitely louder than my brother's flute, but not the whole band. Last time I played on a portable PA(not sure about specs) about 1.2mx1.0m, it wasn't enough.

 

[ShredCow]

Loud enough to play alongside the band without miking(the band will be miked as a whole, part of most stage arrangements), I don't want the sound to be "over" the band.

No way to do that. There's a reason the whole orchestra is mic-ed up and at different places, in sections. Then the sound engineer can handle the mix. You wanna be alone, and be AS LOUD AS the orchestra? Sorry, no way man, you will disrupt the entire mix.

I'm not interested in miking a small amp, if that's the case I'd rather plug my Pod direct through PA.

Then use the POD. Done, case closed. Let's move on.

 

[theblueark]

So you need to sound above whole the band? Or same volume as the individual instruments? Cos you say you want to be louder than the whole band but not cover the band.

The PODs generally sound crappy through a guitar amp.
Either you use a guitar amp, or you use the pod.
If you like your pod through a pa, the best you can do is get a flat response amp. No guitar amp is perfectly flat response, with the exception of things like the atomic reactors. You can get sound out of it but it wont be the same as the pod.

Marshalls are definetely out. They are impossible to tune flat.
Fenders can give a flatter response but definetely not flat.

If they are micing the orchestra as a whole you have to take into account where the speakers are pointing. If they point at the mics, they will be picked up more easily. The other instruments project their sound all around. Your amp will only project it conically forward.

Advice?
Use the pod through the pa mixed with their sound. Let the engineers control it. Either way you will be miced up either by direct mics or as a whole with the orchestra. The orchestra produces sound 360 degrees. You produce sound less than 45 degrees. You will give the sound engineers a bloody headache where to place the mics if you use an amp.

 

[snuffleupagus]

POD will be the most mixable/appropriate for the settings of the orchestra band.Or also mic-ing a small amp.

Look at it from the point of the band being able to sound fine and balanced.This will be the best option unless you really want the head-ache of soundchecking with the band in tow.Do remember when the audience comes in , you will need to adjust the volume...and if its mic-ed , your soundman can do it for ya.If its not...Good luck.

Sound wise , it should be better and easier to control with the POD...you will also be able to get most of the sounds you need from it I guess.

You could bring a less than $2000 Marshall stack and NOT plug it in and just place it behind you for fun though.

The sound of the Band being balanced on the whole ALWAYS comes first.

 

[ciel21]

The Pros have spoken.

Final Verdict. use pod with orchestra.

to satisfy weekend warrior metal god syndrome, use the 2k budget to buy a stack.

By the way 1.0m x 1.2m doesnt really tell you how much power your PA is putting out which is impt to know roughly how loud it is.

 

[Lifehouse]

Shredcow already said what I would have to say. But if you believe in tubes sound and the air being pushed into your chest by a 4 x 12, read on.

Anyway, if you really interested in a half stack, I might let go of my Peavey Ultra Plus head and 5150 4 x 12 to you for $2000. 4 x SED 6L6s and 4 x 12ax7 EH preamp specially selected for hi-gain. Excellent for rock and metal and has a good clean. My friend has been beggin me to sell him haha.

Yea. All the young punks will think you are Malmsteen or something. :smt003

 

[gjkung]

lol I'm back to where I started, direct to PA.

anyway, I notice this misconception you guys have, and that is the I'd use the amp modelling on the podxt. The only reason I'm getting an amp instead of another portable PA is cuz I'd be using the amp tone from the amp, not my pedal.

and I have successfully overpowered the whole band, just that the little keyboard amp I had couldn't last long enough and almost died halfway through sound check. I do know it's possible to be as loud as the band on a half-stack. I played the keyboard amp, then i tried the HD147 halfstack and it's already louder at around 12 o'clock.

I won't get a half-stack just for show or to look like Malmsteen(even though would rock), plus I intend to mic the stack just to balance out the sound, but not for volume. If you pros think that it's not worth it, then I shouldn't try. I'd save up for my dream SZ50FM! which is actually more important, considering that my guitar is super low-end.

my podxt is still unorganic though, but I don't think there will be many audiophiles in the audience anyway

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

connect ur podxt directly to the house PA... and for cosmetic purpose, get an empty full stack 4 × 4 × 12 shell behind u. then ppl will go wow! hope they dun notice that they're not being used... :twisted:

 

[gjkung]

I might as well bring an mp3 player and a cardboard guitar up.

get a cardboard 4x12 and then thrash it after the last song, sure to attract some attention huh.

 

[Indigo_blues]

"considering that my guitar is super low-end"

maybe u should get a new guitar... that's probably making your podxt sound bad. :lol:

sorry, just trying to analyse the situation for ya.

 

[theblueark]

anyway, I notice this misconception you guys have, and that is the I'd use the amp modelling on the podxt. The only reason I'm getting an amp instead of another portable PA is cuz I'd be using the amp tone from the amp, not my pedal.

That's cos the PODs are amp modellers. Bypass the amp modelling and all you have are not so good effects. You bought the wrong thing if you are looking for a multi effects processor. The POD mainly shines in it's amp modelling and you are saying you want to bypass it. Which is not even completely possible.

The alternative is to buy almost any amp with an effects loop, then plug your POD straight into the effects return, using the POD as the preamp, wasting half the point of buying guitar amp but people do that so there you go.

If you insist you want to play with an amp on stage I already told you, you will give the sound engineers a bloody headache because they will have no idea how to mic you and the orchestra up. You will not find good advice on what head + cabinet to buy for your situation here becuase there simply isn't any. Buying a good guitar head + cabinet is detrimental to your whole situation, tonewise, cost effectiveness wise, and sound engineering wise. Your questions are flawed and that is why we have taken 5 pages with no answer because you are asking questions that have none.

Best way to use your POD besides using the PA is to buy something like this:

Which basically work like a PA but look like a guitar amp.

Again, it's not the solution for playing in an orchestra because you will give the soundman a headache micing it.

 

[gjkung]

yeah agreed. My guitar output is too low, sustain is weak, so I have to push my podxt's gain just to get sustain and chug. But when i do that, the buzz comes up it gets noisy. Then I gate the noise away, then my sustains is shit again.

 

[theblueark]

Simulpost!

 

[fibredrive]

nah- not keen on tubes. the only tube unit i'll keep is my Ibanez Valbee.

sub, care to share whats on the horizon for you? would like to keep my options open for my next amp...thks!

 

[Lifehouse]

Ok la. Some hopefully more helpful advice.

Getting a new guitar won't solve all your problems. It will solve some and create some. How "low-end" is your guitar?

Another thing I don't understand is that why do you need a 1/2 stack to mic it up when a small tube combo would probably do the job well enough or better.

My simple conclusion is that by keeping the XT live, you are creating a bottleneck for the possible solutions all the "old birds" here can offer you. I came from Line 6 background as well. In hindsight, I did good by going analogue. Never regretted the move.

If I were you, I'd sell the XT for $500. Creating a $2500 budget. Now, you have alot more money to get a new guitar and a good tube amp and even some effects. Definitely sound better than all these modelling stuff.

 

[gjkung]

thanks for all that writing up blueark.

I try not to limit myself to using the podxt, if me having a podxt now means I shall never get an amp, I'd rather junk it. My plans are just to get whatever I sound right, I'd probably use the podxt live in school performances and lug my future amp only for big occasions. Use my podxt live at home for practice and recording, and my amp for performances.

Possibilities are endless.

Sorry to have troubled anyone, cuz I really didn't have any idea about anythng at the start.