simplecomplexity
New member
IW is lookin' cool!!!
James Tyler guitars
- Thread starter dorngo
- Start date
There were 2 Ice Water Prototype, 1 is good 1 is So so.
the good went to wildwood for approval , the so so went to Jim’s friend.
I believed the rest of IC wasn’t as good as rest of the Tylers, reason was Jim was very sick during those days and affects his tone and hearing judgement.
2007 Tylers is like 60’s/70’s CBS Fender
the good went to wildwood for approval , the so so went to Jim’s friend.
I believed the rest of IC wasn’t as good as rest of the Tylers, reason was Jim was very sick during those days and affects his tone and hearing judgement.
2007 Tylers is like 60’s/70’s CBS Fender
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trismeplz
New member
Its amazing the assumptions that can arise for hearsay and speculation.
I tried googling/searching any forum articles and posts in regards to supposedly "so so" Tylers and all I could find was that people were worried that Jim would stop making guitars, nothing was mentioned on the quality, fit and finish during that period.
If there is any that I overlooked, I would love to see it.
The problems with CBS strats is that it is an issue known worldwide and anybody find it strange that there is once again no mention of the mythical 07 "so so" Tylers. If there are, might they be only coming to Singapore?
We could also use Jim's sickness analogy to say that since Leo Fender is dead, all strats made after his death is "so so"
I corresponded extensively with "Jim's fren", reputable Tyler dealers and Tyler themselves and the "so so" IW was brought to him again to take a look before coming to me and there was nothing mention on the apparent decine in 07 Tylers.
I did not buy the IW because the of its collectability but because it was going for a reasonable price, something that is sadly not available in SG.
I don't mind people taking a knock at my guitar and but to drag Jim's sickness and using it as a blanket assumption to say as guitars made during that time is "so so" is certainly not appreciated and I don't think Jim would appreciate it.
I tried googling/searching any forum articles and posts in regards to supposedly "so so" Tylers and all I could find was that people were worried that Jim would stop making guitars, nothing was mentioned on the quality, fit and finish during that period.
If there is any that I overlooked, I would love to see it.
The problems with CBS strats is that it is an issue known worldwide and anybody find it strange that there is once again no mention of the mythical 07 "so so" Tylers. If there are, might they be only coming to Singapore?
We could also use Jim's sickness analogy to say that since Leo Fender is dead, all strats made after his death is "so so"
I corresponded extensively with "Jim's fren", reputable Tyler dealers and Tyler themselves and the "so so" IW was brought to him again to take a look before coming to me and there was nothing mention on the apparent decine in 07 Tylers.
I did not buy the IW because the of its collectability but because it was going for a reasonable price, something that is sadly not available in SG.
I don't mind people taking a knock at my guitar and but to drag Jim's sickness and using it as a blanket assumption to say as guitars made during that time is "so so" is certainly not appreciated and I don't think Jim would appreciate it.
All Brands or any manufacturing company has ups & down in their history! and Tyler is no different from them.
Any Tyler collector who follow Jim from his early days knows that 2007 is the dark years for Tyler Guitars in terms of quality standards, Jim was very ill and his guys do most of the building although he supervised,none of them has Jim’s meticulous eyes and Jim’s high standards on building guitars. There’s was a lot of complain with the frets , heavy guitars , thin sounding guitars and especially the missing Tyler vibe. Jim has no choice but to stop the production and take a 2 years leave, but continue the production of JTS pickups.Jim was mis- diagnosed with Lung Cancer at that time, so to expose himself to a saw dust is a No No. Upon 2nd opinion Jim was informed it’s a tumor in the brain and it affects his hearing to. I believed that Ice Water production was affected too during that time, i don’t think Jim will be able to built those orders for Wild Wood.
2009 guitar production was back
2009-2010 the quality are very high and was consistent, i believed Jim was building alone or with 1 guy only
2011 Tyler hired new guys
Mid 2011 Tyler moved to the New facilities and introduce CNC machine.
I hope common guitar company history won’t happen to Tyler Guitars.
From handmade to machine made………. from soulful to no life
There’s a vast difference between a guitar that are made by an imperfect human hand and a lifeless machine.
hope this info helps
121atchon
Tyler User since 1996
Any Tyler collector who follow Jim from his early days knows that 2007 is the dark years for Tyler Guitars in terms of quality standards, Jim was very ill and his guys do most of the building although he supervised,none of them has Jim’s meticulous eyes and Jim’s high standards on building guitars. There’s was a lot of complain with the frets , heavy guitars , thin sounding guitars and especially the missing Tyler vibe. Jim has no choice but to stop the production and take a 2 years leave, but continue the production of JTS pickups.Jim was mis- diagnosed with Lung Cancer at that time, so to expose himself to a saw dust is a No No. Upon 2nd opinion Jim was informed it’s a tumor in the brain and it affects his hearing to. I believed that Ice Water production was affected too during that time, i don’t think Jim will be able to built those orders for Wild Wood.
2009 guitar production was back
2009-2010 the quality are very high and was consistent, i believed Jim was building alone or with 1 guy only
2011 Tyler hired new guys
Mid 2011 Tyler moved to the New facilities and introduce CNC machine.
I hope common guitar company history won’t happen to Tyler Guitars.
From handmade to machine made………. from soulful to no life
There’s a vast difference between a guitar that are made by an imperfect human hand and a lifeless machine.
hope this info helps
121atchon
Tyler User since 1996
Welcome to soft!.. I think for your statement above, it would depend on how much level of CNC vs human element is involved. If CNC is just used to do the general and less meticulous stuff then I think it's fine. Sometimes, these all these handmade talk can be overrated. If you read the statements of modern luthiers now at TGP, most of them prefer to work with CNC's doing the intial cutting of wood because they want to preserve their hands. The analogy would be why would you want to use an ax to cut down a tree when there's a chainsaw lying around.
I can't say anything about the 2007 Tylers as I haven't tried any and I'm new to Tylers eventhough I'm aware of them for quite some time now. Maybe you can also try posting your comments on forums like TGP where there are lots of tyler users so the topic can be discussed without much speculation.: )
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Thanks!
But there’s no speculation here!
I hate to say this and I hope i don’t sound like boasting but there is a vast difference between an oldman who owns 600 highly collectable guitars including Tylers and any high end & vintage guitars,amps that you can think of .
Than a person who just owned 1 or 10 guitars or maybe their 1st Tyler, and only rely on half truth information from so called Jim’s friend and those TGP & Forum kids. Without a 2nd thot the only guy here among you who is credible to talk about guitars especially Tylers, is Yar.
Well!
Just enjoy your Tylers,
practice more and whine less
121atchon
But there’s no speculation here!
I hate to say this and I hope i don’t sound like boasting but there is a vast difference between an oldman who owns 600 highly collectable guitars including Tylers and any high end & vintage guitars,amps that you can think of .
Than a person who just owned 1 or 10 guitars or maybe their 1st Tyler, and only rely on half truth information from so called Jim’s friend and those TGP & Forum kids. Without a 2nd thot the only guy here among you who is credible to talk about guitars especially Tylers, is Yar.
Well!
Just enjoy your Tylers,
practice more and whine less
121atchon
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My reaction is more about the blanket statement on the 2007 Tylers given that until now there are very few Tylers here in Singapore. Not really trying to discredit your experience or anything but I only used the word speculation because I've searched other topics on this too and I didn't find any. Also, I think there still some high degree of credibility on TGP specially those members who really play out and own several and they can also give a fair assessment even if they are not really guitar collectors like you. I know there are fanboys in the forums but given the success rate of Tyler even with the non-fanboys, I'm sure Jim and Co. can still produce quality guitars.
With due respect, I'm acquainted with Yar too and I acknowledge his vast experience on gear. But to say that he's the only one reliable to talk about guitars here, I beg to disagree. His ears, hands, taste in music, and feel for the insturments are not exactly like ours obviously so we have different goals in music and perceptions of what is a great guitar. We just can't peg our sense of what instrument is right for us in one person. Like what they said, no two guitars, even if they're identical to the last spec, are the same.
I've met some guys too whose opinion and taste on gear I respect too even without owning 600 guitars or not working on a guitar shop with expensive guitars. They have an objective mindset when analyzing gear and can articulately explain why the gear is working for them or not. They analyze the guitars at hand and don't rely on statistics.
With due respect, I'm acquainted with Yar too and I acknowledge his vast experience on gear. But to say that he's the only one reliable to talk about guitars here, I beg to disagree. His ears, hands, taste in music, and feel for the insturments are not exactly like ours obviously so we have different goals in music and perceptions of what is a great guitar. We just can't peg our sense of what instrument is right for us in one person. Like what they said, no two guitars, even if they're identical to the last spec, are the same.
I've met some guys too whose opinion and taste on gear I respect too even without owning 600 guitars or not working on a guitar shop with expensive guitars. They have an objective mindset when analyzing gear and can articulately explain why the gear is working for them or not. They analyze the guitars at hand and don't rely on statistics.
Flinto2002
New member
Flinto2002
New member
Wow! another mostly misinformed post. Looks like you read a copy of Jim's letter to dealers back when he thought about closing down the business, and have purported
I'm at the Tyler shop every other month, have been a friend of Jim's since 2002.
Your timeline is off. Guitar production NEVER ceased and CNC was is use WAY before 2011... I was there when Jim first got the CNC, and used to hang out on the weekends when he and the Engineer would make adjustments to the programming.
Guess what? 2005 Tylers were cut on a CNC.
I'm at the Tyler shop every other month, have been a friend of Jim's since 2002.
Your timeline is off. Guitar production NEVER ceased and CNC was is use WAY before 2011... I was there when Jim first got the CNC, and used to hang out on the weekends when he and the Engineer would make adjustments to the programming.
Guess what? 2005 Tylers were cut on a CNC.
Welcome to soft too Flint.: ) Thanks for clarfying things up. I knew I read somewhere on HRI, Rig-talk and TGP about the CNC thing on Tylers that are earlier than 2007 but I could not state it as I don't have proof.
On my research, the only problem that I saw some have discussed is the high E string slipping off the board which Jim has already remedied a long time ago with metal inserts on the neck pocket(please correct me if I'm wrong) and this has stabilized the neck. Apparently, the shifting occurs during transit when some guitars suffered high load impacts caused by delivery services. Apart from that, the others are simply stating the Tyler tone is not for them.
So to those who are considering of buying a Tyler, they're still churning out high-quality stuff up to now even with the use of CNC's + handcraft. In fact, IMHO, Tylers now are even better than before not only in tone but in aesthetics as well. Here are some improvements I found:
1. Change from Sperzel to more stable Hipshot Tuners. When I got my Tyler last month, I subjected it to heavy bar usage. Guess what, it stays in tune unless you turn the pegs.
2. Change from Wilkinson bridge to Gotoh 510(Zinc block) with Raw Vintage Saddles. Much neater looking if you ask me. And Jim proves that Zinc is not always inferior than steel. He has an interesting theory on this on the archives of HRI forums.
3. The Tyler pickups are a great improvement over the Dimarzios and Duncans. I was half-expecting that I might be changing them to my favorite Bare Knuckle Pickups but they surprised me with their response and detail.
4. The paint jobs now are much more vivid and detailed than the earlier ones I saw. This is subjective of course but do see for yourself if you agree with me or not.
On my research, the only problem that I saw some have discussed is the high E string slipping off the board which Jim has already remedied a long time ago with metal inserts on the neck pocket(please correct me if I'm wrong) and this has stabilized the neck. Apparently, the shifting occurs during transit when some guitars suffered high load impacts caused by delivery services. Apart from that, the others are simply stating the Tyler tone is not for them.
So to those who are considering of buying a Tyler, they're still churning out high-quality stuff up to now even with the use of CNC's + handcraft. In fact, IMHO, Tylers now are even better than before not only in tone but in aesthetics as well. Here are some improvements I found:
1. Change from Sperzel to more stable Hipshot Tuners. When I got my Tyler last month, I subjected it to heavy bar usage. Guess what, it stays in tune unless you turn the pegs.
2. Change from Wilkinson bridge to Gotoh 510(Zinc block) with Raw Vintage Saddles. Much neater looking if you ask me. And Jim proves that Zinc is not always inferior than steel. He has an interesting theory on this on the archives of HRI forums.
3. The Tyler pickups are a great improvement over the Dimarzios and Duncans. I was half-expecting that I might be changing them to my favorite Bare Knuckle Pickups but they surprised me with their response and detail.
4. The paint jobs now are much more vivid and detailed than the earlier ones I saw. This is subjective of course but do see for yourself if you agree with me or not.
Flinto2002
New member
I'm the original owner of the "so=so" Ice Water, and I'm friends with the guy that owns the other one (RogX)
First of, neither was "so-so", they are both very nice guitars. The one I had for 4 years was one of the lightest most resonant of all the 15 or so tylers I have owned. Joe Satriani thought is was pretty amazing as well... but that is another story.
So... the Ice Waters... 2 were painted as prototypes. The one I bought was not even assembled into a guitar when I told Jim I wanted it...it had a neck, but no pickups. I'm not sure how you got the information that it was a so-so guitar. Did you play it? Did a friend of yours play it? Having owned it for 4 years I can certainly tell you it was not a mediocre guitar, and I'd have kept it had I not moved to Floyd equipped guitars almost exclusively.
Jim was sick....yes, but it did not effect his sense of tone or judgement. What is your basis for these statements? Do you know Jim? I do, I speak to him regularly, see him once a month or so and visited him at home when he got out of the hospital. Jim wasn't dying, bedridden or anything like that. He was uncomfortable, he had a congestion in his lungs that bothered him and made him thing he might have cancer. It made his quality of life suffer, but not his quality of work. His hearing is just fine.
You might want to be a little more careful when you speak.
First of, neither was "so-so", they are both very nice guitars. The one I had for 4 years was one of the lightest most resonant of all the 15 or so tylers I have owned. Joe Satriani thought is was pretty amazing as well... but that is another story.
So... the Ice Waters... 2 were painted as prototypes. The one I bought was not even assembled into a guitar when I told Jim I wanted it...it had a neck, but no pickups. I'm not sure how you got the information that it was a so-so guitar. Did you play it? Did a friend of yours play it? Having owned it for 4 years I can certainly tell you it was not a mediocre guitar, and I'd have kept it had I not moved to Floyd equipped guitars almost exclusively.
Jim was sick....yes, but it did not effect his sense of tone or judgement. What is your basis for these statements? Do you know Jim? I do, I speak to him regularly, see him once a month or so and visited him at home when he got out of the hospital. Jim wasn't dying, bedridden or anything like that. He was uncomfortable, he had a congestion in his lungs that bothered him and made him thing he might have cancer. It made his quality of life suffer, but not his quality of work. His hearing is just fine.
You might want to be a little more careful when you speak.
tongski_02
New member
before things get out of hand...
is james tyler the same guy who sang "you got a friend"
"fire and rain"???
is james tyler the same guy who sang "you got a friend"
"fire and rain"???
Mr. Flint_stone,
I dunno who you are, i’m not sure if you are real, bluff, wannabe that wears spandex and cowboy hat ,2nd hand crap guitar agent , insurance agent or Bernie Madoff . but you sound like a Narrator of a Big Bang theory documentary , saying like, you were there 5 million years ago ,was there in Tyler in the beginning. but who cares if you are there. even if let say you know Jim since 2002 , i meet Jim in 1993 , went to his shop few times, see him almost every NAMM show. SO WHAT”S THE BIG DEAL? I may not in contact with Him regularly but I do buy Tyler regularly from his so called refuttable (crap) US Dealers and good Asian dealers And you know what? Most American Tyler dealers dunno anything except telling half truth to the asian buyers. I follow & checked Tyler production QC closely everytime it arrived in my doorstep. For your info. I and my Japanese guitar collector friend & bussiness partners probably owned most Tylers , boutique & vintage guitars on this globe. You guys always thot the we asians especially we Chinese and Japanese dunno bout’ guitars. we’ll good luck to you coz i know more than you do. Maybe you dunno that even your Ponzi US economy is relying on Asia esp. China.
Now, Does it makes a difference in Tyler Production if you visit him every month or everyday or you visit him in the hospital.Are they going to make better guitars coz you are there? or are justifying your crap and accidental Prototype. Hey, If it’s really good , you won’t sell it. instead you will keep it, even if you dun use it. You sold it coz you are moving to Floyrose? that’s crap, even my Grandson won’t buy that.
And guess what? Joe Satriani also sign my buddie’s son Indonesian Ibanez and say it’s a great guitar. Hey, you dumb , Joe will say that to everyone .
You said Tyler Production Never ceased? Huh! So ‘ who build the Tyler’s in 2007 since Jim as you said has a congestion in His lungs.
you mean Jim has lung congestion and still exposed to saw dust and paint smell? Oh gosh!
You mean Tyler Guitars are always achieved Jim’s standard? Yes, if it’s made by Jim himself, even just 75% of it made by him it’s already great and not by his crap workers few years back?
Flint_stone Maybe you can’t tell what is crap and what is worst.
You said CNC machine was used since 2005 Tylers? So how bout’ 2006, 2007 and so on? every Luthier has CNC machine ? But can you specify if It’s for neck CNC or evrything? You say 2005 Tylers you mean all 2005 Tylers? CAn you tell between a router and a CNC?
Did I say, Jim was Bedridden?
Did, I say Jim was Dying?
Did I threatened somebody coz you said i should be more careful on what i speak?
I thot U Americans , champion and promote freedom of speech? and to go a war to promote Democracy?
Maybe I see you at Tyler’s booth this coming NAMM? It might be a good idea to know each other.
and Who’s Flint_stone?
zài jiàn
121atchon
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