afterdeath
New member
haha....... so blubblegum pop rock do promote singlish afterall.......
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Getting over the Singaporean accent!!!!
- Thread starter parablue74
- Start date
People are always attracted to something foreign and strange. So lets not hide things that makes us unique. Actually i know some foreigners who are really taken in with Singlish so much so tht they try to use it in everyday speech.
so i tink we shldn't apologise for speaking singlish. the irish,jamaican,aussies all dun speak proper english anyway and they neva apologised for it.
Technically, there is no such thing as proper english. English is such a bastardised language...it takes from french,latin and german anw. So dun be surprised to see some singaporean slang in the oxford dictionary soon..haha.
Be proud of who u are
cheers lah!
so i tink we shldn't apologise for speaking singlish. the irish,jamaican,aussies all dun speak proper english anyway and they neva apologised for it.
Technically, there is no such thing as proper english. English is such a bastardised language...it takes from french,latin and german anw. So dun be surprised to see some singaporean slang in the oxford dictionary soon..haha.
Be proud of who u are
cheers lah!
shinobi
New member
i think the matter is not coming to grips with the singapore accent...
the problem is more like when we play covers of bands from uk/us. no matter how original we try to be, having heard the song by the original artist before, his style of singing will stick to the back of our minds and if the cover is sung differently, it will sound painful to some extent.
contrary to what some people believe, i do believe that there is a 'clean' english, just like there is a clean guitar tone. every country has their slangs and accents. but you don't hear many artists from the us singing with a southern accent or uk singers singing with a cockney accent, for example. their countries are thousands of miles apart but their singing voice is not much different. and this we just dismiss as "ang moh accent"
for a start we should get rid of all the slangs lah. slangs are slangs and accent is accent. another thing is we are not used to pronouncing words properly. may i suggest tongue twisting excercises
... betty botter bought a bar of better butter to make her bitter batter better. try saying that aloud and see if anyone can distinguish your "batter" from "better"
the problem is more like when we play covers of bands from uk/us. no matter how original we try to be, having heard the song by the original artist before, his style of singing will stick to the back of our minds and if the cover is sung differently, it will sound painful to some extent.
contrary to what some people believe, i do believe that there is a 'clean' english, just like there is a clean guitar tone. every country has their slangs and accents. but you don't hear many artists from the us singing with a southern accent or uk singers singing with a cockney accent, for example. their countries are thousands of miles apart but their singing voice is not much different. and this we just dismiss as "ang moh accent"
for a start we should get rid of all the slangs lah. slangs are slangs and accent is accent. another thing is we are not used to pronouncing words properly. may i suggest tongue twisting excercises
... betty botter bought a bar of better butter to make her bitter batter better. try saying that aloud and see if anyone can distinguish your "batter" from "better"a_b_normal123
New member
I think we're veering from the original post. The person who originally wrote the post had a problem with the diction, not the slang.
And I have a couple of friends who don't pronounce their words properly, and that has really presented itself as a problem. There is a breakdown in communication. And to add on to that problem, their usage of Singlish (I'm not talking about the "lahs" and the "lors") makes them quite incomprehensible. I have to ask them to keep rephrasing their words just so that I can get the meaning correct.
So I think that we can be "proud of our heritage" and use Singlish (although I disagree that that's the only way to be proud we're Singaporeans) but we still have to make sure that the rest of the world understands what we're saying. Don't you agree that there has to be some basic standard? If you insist that one has to use Singlish or else one is a "poseur", then I think you are greatly misleaded. Please go and think about the times when comedies laugh at other countries not speaking grammatical English as well, do you want them to laugh at us this way? They constantly portray these people as being stupid. And if you think that they can laugh at us and we can still "stand proud" then go ahead, keep on using such incomprehensible English.
But I, for one, will not let other people think that I'm stupid and that I lack the basic skills in communication just for the sake of "being Singaporean".
Tammi
And I have a couple of friends who don't pronounce their words properly, and that has really presented itself as a problem. There is a breakdown in communication. And to add on to that problem, their usage of Singlish (I'm not talking about the "lahs" and the "lors") makes them quite incomprehensible. I have to ask them to keep rephrasing their words just so that I can get the meaning correct.
So I think that we can be "proud of our heritage" and use Singlish (although I disagree that that's the only way to be proud we're Singaporeans) but we still have to make sure that the rest of the world understands what we're saying. Don't you agree that there has to be some basic standard? If you insist that one has to use Singlish or else one is a "poseur", then I think you are greatly misleaded. Please go and think about the times when comedies laugh at other countries not speaking grammatical English as well, do you want them to laugh at us this way? They constantly portray these people as being stupid. And if you think that they can laugh at us and we can still "stand proud" then go ahead, keep on using such incomprehensible English.
But I, for one, will not let other people think that I'm stupid and that I lack the basic skills in communication just for the sake of "being Singaporean".
Tammi
super_punk
New member
i agree with one of the guys above that english is really a language with many accents, and singlish is just one of them. though for singlish to be affected in a person's singing, i read somewhere that an accent should not affect a person singing. after all when a person speaks he uses the voice box but when he sings he uses the diaphragm. but it is debatable.
well, afterdeath. i totally respect your view on people who hate singlish but i think you should respect theirs too. for sure there's gonna be people who hate singlish, for one thing i hate the southern accent. it sucks. it makes you sound like a hillbilly, but i don't hate southern people. so there's no reason to kick a guy out if he hates your accent.
i can't say i'm proud of singlish. i speak it myself and sometimes i feel dumb. but it something that connects me to singapore and that's what it's all about.
well, afterdeath. i totally respect your view on people who hate singlish but i think you should respect theirs too. for sure there's gonna be people who hate singlish, for one thing i hate the southern accent. it sucks. it makes you sound like a hillbilly, but i don't hate southern people. so there's no reason to kick a guy out if he hates your accent.
i can't say i'm proud of singlish. i speak it myself and sometimes i feel dumb. but it something that connects me to singapore and that's what it's all about.
MidnightFender
New member
erm... I think we are going way out of point here... Since when has Singlish been considered an accent? It's more about grammer and stuff... Speaking the correct English.
So you guys should debate about speaking good english vs "comfortable" english. But I'm definately no english teacher.
So you guys should debate about speaking good english vs "comfortable" english. But I'm definately no english teacher.
afterdeath
New member
of all the ah mohs out there, i only can understand those from England ....... but i can't stand those from US........ even their friends dun noe wat they r toking abt........ yet they still can ask me whether i understand english a not.......
i personally feel tat those from US can't really speak well n understood like those from England........
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i personally feel tat those from US can't really speak well n understood like those from England........
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guitar_phreak
New member
afterdeath said:
Brother... wait till you hear the local slang of those Englishmen... watch the movie "Snatch" it'll give you a good idea.
You're probably only refering to those people who speak "Victorian English"... now those dudes have good diction
MackSonne
New member
I guess for songs, the thing still boils down to rhythm, the feel, the way one aspect lends to each other, and if there are new ways of creating harmony through Singlish, Why not? Don't know if you heard of this ABC rapper Jin, he kind of bent the English pronounciation of words to suit his cantonese rap.
But going on to Diction, I guess it does matters a lot when you consider who your audience is... If I am singing to an audience of people with, well relatively low standards of education, having diction that is really ENglish might be seen as snobbish to these people. The same for the other way round. IMHO I wouldn't want to introduce any big bombastic words in my lyrics when singing to people who do not apppreciate it, and turn the session into an English class.
Alas, it's all about understanding ain't it? I guess if one understands one's audience, then one should suit them. Look at X-Japan. They are very good, but I feel they are unable to adapt well in order to cut into the US music industry due to language problems... Yet in Japan, they are forever, because the common Japanese identify with their language problems....
But going on to Diction, I guess it does matters a lot when you consider who your audience is... If I am singing to an audience of people with, well relatively low standards of education, having diction that is really ENglish might be seen as snobbish to these people. The same for the other way round. IMHO I wouldn't want to introduce any big bombastic words in my lyrics when singing to people who do not apppreciate it, and turn the session into an English class.
Alas, it's all about understanding ain't it? I guess if one understands one's audience, then one should suit them. Look at X-Japan. They are very good, but I feel they are unable to adapt well in order to cut into the US music industry due to language problems... Yet in Japan, they are forever, because the common Japanese identify with their language problems....
super_punk
New member
afterdeath
wow we have really gone out of point.
now we're talking which ang moes can we understand.
wow we have really gone out of point.
now we're talking which ang moes can we understand.
i think singaporeans need to work on their diction, but singlish -in moderation- is cool.
i've been brought up in australia, when i returned a few years back i had - and still have- somewhat of an accent. when i entered school, a classmate said to me "eh why you speak got slang one arh?" i had no idea what she was talking about. [bear in mind i just returned]
many singaporeans confuse "accent" with "slang". that's one thing i find confusing. also, the phrases "owing to" and "due to". "due to" is something negative.
but i digress. i'm veering off topic here. haha.
back to it.
have you heard eminem, or some other rappers or singers[american/english/jamacian etc etc] when they rap or sing, they stretch/bend/manipulate the words, vowels etc, to fit into the rhythm of their song.
the problem with local singers is that they PRONOUNCE their words wrongly to begin with. its the pronunciation. when they sing they still pronounce their words wrongly. THEN it starts to sound really weird.
so a tip: work on pronunciation. don't be ashamed of singlish, cos that's what makes this sunny little island unique. but don't go overboard. learn when to use it and when to speak proper english. remember. everything in moderation :]
i've been brought up in australia, when i returned a few years back i had - and still have- somewhat of an accent. when i entered school, a classmate said to me "eh why you speak got slang one arh?" i had no idea what she was talking about. [bear in mind i just returned]
many singaporeans confuse "accent" with "slang". that's one thing i find confusing. also, the phrases "owing to" and "due to". "due to" is something negative.
but i digress. i'm veering off topic here. haha.
back to it.
have you heard eminem, or some other rappers or singers[american/english/jamacian etc etc] when they rap or sing, they stretch/bend/manipulate the words, vowels etc, to fit into the rhythm of their song.
the problem with local singers is that they PRONOUNCE their words wrongly to begin with. its the pronunciation. when they sing they still pronounce their words wrongly. THEN it starts to sound really weird.
so a tip: work on pronunciation. don't be ashamed of singlish, cos that's what makes this sunny little island unique. but don't go overboard. learn when to use it and when to speak proper english. remember. everything in moderation :]
afterdeath
New member
guitar_phreak
oic..... thks 4 the info.... victorian english........ good diction........ got 2 learn from 'em.....
oic..... thks 4 the info.... victorian english........ good diction........ got 2 learn from 'em.....
LilacXLolita
New member
I think there's a fine line between patriotism and just plain bad pronunciation, diction and enunciation. You may notice that even some British acts will pronounce certain words in a song the American way (e.g. some of them will sing "wanna" instead of "want to"), NOT because they're trying to be American, but simply because it sounds better that way.
There has to be a certain flow with words when singing, and choppy bad enunciation and diction just ruins a song.
Personally, I don't believe a strong Singaporean accent is appropriate in most music (note the word "most", I'm not saying this applies to all... it depends) but that is my opinion. I much prefer to hear what has come to be termed a "neutral accent". Also, I don't believe I am being unpatriotic by having this opinion. I simply have a respect for language, as well as a preference for singing that is universally comprehensible.
This is not just about Singlish or the Singaporean accent. Or even English for that matter. I get irritated by French Canadian singers who have too thick a French accent when they sing English songs. And I can't speak for other races, but I know alot of Chinese people who bitch about singers in the Mandarin/Cantonese music industry who can't pronounce their words accurately and with the right inflections. Yet, I've noticed many of these individuals are the very same ones who like to complain that Singaporean accents should be more accepted in music. Kind of hypocritical in my opinion. I don't really buy into these double standards.
My view is that whatever language someone sings in, they should be respectful of that language and try their best to be accurate in their pronunciation, enunciation and diction. If Singaporean English-language music wants to break into the international market, being understood is an important factor. No matter how "cute" or "exotic" some non-Singaporeans might think the accent is, chances are, it irritates the hell out of 80% of the rest of them because they don't understand what the person is saying.
I live in Australia and the majority of my friends here are Australian. I speak to them in a neutral accent and have never had any communication problems. However, I can tell you that almost everyone I meet tells me they are relieved I speak proper English coz most other Singaporeans they encounter (in their words) "speak really badly" and they can't understand alot of what they're saying. Either that or, they'll tell me some Asians will try and put on an American, Australian or British accent but it just makes it worse, especially if their pronunciation is bad to begin with.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is respect the language, but don't fake it.
It's one thing for a country to have it's own identity and way of talking, but to have so many people in a country NOT be able to spell and speak the language of instruction properly when required to... that's just ridiculous and has nothing to do with patriotism. If someone was patriotic, they'd want to give others a better impression of their country and not allow others to think that the nation is too stupid to be able to master their own language of instruction. It's cool if someone wants to speak Singlish and with a heavy Singaporean accent or whatever... but if they can't hold a conversation or SING in grammatically correct English with proper pronunciation when required, then it's kind of sad. Considering that the education system teaches every subject except the mother tongue in English.
Sorry if I'm sounding unpatriotic or whatever. That is not my intention or sentiment at all. I heard a New Zealand punk band play the other day and their Kiwi accent was so thick that it grated on my nerves. And if I were a Taiwanese, I'd also be bitching about how Australian vocal group, Human Nature (bless their beautiful pitch-perfect a capella singing), could have done a better job pronunciating their Mandarin words in "Mo Mo Ai Ni".
But once again, this is just my personal opinion.
I respect anyone else who has a different view.
There has to be a certain flow with words when singing, and choppy bad enunciation and diction just ruins a song.
Personally, I don't believe a strong Singaporean accent is appropriate in most music (note the word "most", I'm not saying this applies to all... it depends) but that is my opinion. I much prefer to hear what has come to be termed a "neutral accent". Also, I don't believe I am being unpatriotic by having this opinion. I simply have a respect for language, as well as a preference for singing that is universally comprehensible.
This is not just about Singlish or the Singaporean accent. Or even English for that matter. I get irritated by French Canadian singers who have too thick a French accent when they sing English songs. And I can't speak for other races, but I know alot of Chinese people who bitch about singers in the Mandarin/Cantonese music industry who can't pronounce their words accurately and with the right inflections. Yet, I've noticed many of these individuals are the very same ones who like to complain that Singaporean accents should be more accepted in music. Kind of hypocritical in my opinion. I don't really buy into these double standards.
My view is that whatever language someone sings in, they should be respectful of that language and try their best to be accurate in their pronunciation, enunciation and diction. If Singaporean English-language music wants to break into the international market, being understood is an important factor. No matter how "cute" or "exotic" some non-Singaporeans might think the accent is, chances are, it irritates the hell out of 80% of the rest of them because they don't understand what the person is saying.
I live in Australia and the majority of my friends here are Australian. I speak to them in a neutral accent and have never had any communication problems. However, I can tell you that almost everyone I meet tells me they are relieved I speak proper English coz most other Singaporeans they encounter (in their words) "speak really badly" and they can't understand alot of what they're saying. Either that or, they'll tell me some Asians will try and put on an American, Australian or British accent but it just makes it worse, especially if their pronunciation is bad to begin with.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is respect the language, but don't fake it.
It's one thing for a country to have it's own identity and way of talking, but to have so many people in a country NOT be able to spell and speak the language of instruction properly when required to... that's just ridiculous and has nothing to do with patriotism. If someone was patriotic, they'd want to give others a better impression of their country and not allow others to think that the nation is too stupid to be able to master their own language of instruction. It's cool if someone wants to speak Singlish and with a heavy Singaporean accent or whatever... but if they can't hold a conversation or SING in grammatically correct English with proper pronunciation when required, then it's kind of sad. Considering that the education system teaches every subject except the mother tongue in English.
Sorry if I'm sounding unpatriotic or whatever. That is not my intention or sentiment at all. I heard a New Zealand punk band play the other day and their Kiwi accent was so thick that it grated on my nerves. And if I were a Taiwanese, I'd also be bitching about how Australian vocal group, Human Nature (bless their beautiful pitch-perfect a capella singing), could have done a better job pronunciating their Mandarin words in "Mo Mo Ai Ni".
But once again, this is just my personal opinion.
I respect anyone else who has a different view.
LilacXLolita
New member
Thank you. :wink:
Same to you for your post in the thread about female guitarists... even though it had nothing much to do with the topic. But still. It was a good post.
Same to you for your post in the thread about female guitarists... even though it had nothing much to do with the topic. But still. It was a good post.
rottenramone
Active member
wahhhh liddat arhz... OK Lorz!
reli ah rottenramone? wah lau...
ok ok... i dun reli have a problem with the 'slang' or accent or wat la...
my aussie bosses speech is a little harder to understand, now they try to talk like 1 of us sumtimes.
personally, i rather listen to a singaporean speak singlish here n there. rather than faking an accent.especially the 'hip hop 50 cents wannabe' kind of people.
but at the end of the day, if the individual is happy with 1self and manage to make the person he/she is talking to, should be good enuf.
i myself tried to fake before but failed badly...
ok peace
ok ok... i dun reli have a problem with the 'slang' or accent or wat la...
my aussie bosses speech is a little harder to understand, now they try to talk like 1 of us sumtimes.
personally, i rather listen to a singaporean speak singlish here n there. rather than faking an accent.especially the 'hip hop 50 cents wannabe' kind of people.
but at the end of the day, if the individual is happy with 1self and manage to make the person he/she is talking to, should be good enuf.
i myself tried to fake before but failed badly...
ok peace
I'm a huge fan of Singlish. I use it daily.
But when we speak English, I noticed that we do not show it much respect, especially our diction. If you bother to listen to yourself speak, how many of us actually pronounce the alphabet Ts and Ss at the end of each word.( For example, "trust", "basks", we just pronounce it at truss and bus.) If you watch most documentaries and some movies, the people in there actually bother to do so. We ought to give the language a little more love. When speaking English, speak it properly. But when using Singlish, speak it with pride lah.
But when we speak English, I noticed that we do not show it much respect, especially our diction. If you bother to listen to yourself speak, how many of us actually pronounce the alphabet Ts and Ss at the end of each word.( For example, "trust", "basks", we just pronounce it at truss and bus.) If you watch most documentaries and some movies, the people in there actually bother to do so. We ought to give the language a little more love. When speaking English, speak it properly. But when using Singlish, speak it with pride lah.
