Gear News 2004

[marshall_law]

Maybe everyone is just fighting for their piece of meat. It is a dog eat dog world. But i can't really stand gibson suing PRS instead of improving their products.

And i guess maybe there is some law in s'pore that protect the main distributor. But if swee lee stop marking up their price at such unbelieveable rate, maybe they can stop worrying people buying Jap fender from luther. The last time i went guitar gallery, their les paul was 4500 plus, it went down by $300. But if i remember correctly, their goldtop is $7000plus. The last time was just only $5000. Man! Now Sing dollar is strongest against US dollar, why did the price still go up?!

 

[guitar_phreak]

From what I notice (i may be wrong), some shops specialize in specific brands, like Davis (PRS, ESP...)..Swee Lee (Ibanez, Gibson..).. Music Plaza (Yamaha) .. there is little overlap, hence they can charge high prices due to lack of "alternatives"

I mean, where else can you get them? Buy online? Count the risk in, the transport cost, plus lack of "service & support". it'll cost the same here.

Well...unless some of "us" set up a store or local online web selling the same brand of guitars to compete with them...they're gonna continue charging near monopolistic prices.

The value does not depend on how much it cost, but how much we THINK it costs.

 

[Strings]

the people @ Gibson are trembling in their very pants every day when the PRS name is mentioned.

Sorry but where did you come up with this? It's obvious you don't like Gibson and you are trying to spread that little "rumour". I'm sorry if I come off a little strong but I would like you to explain or give links to where you found the quote above.

I just came back from the States (ok about a few months ago actually) whereby I visited quite a few guitar and amp manufacturers. Lucky me, I got a tour of the Gibson TN branch. The people there are VERY friendly and VERY informative. I have to say Gibsons guitars have never been totally overthrown by PRS in terms of the performance (after trying the R9 of course). I wouldn't say that Gibson's product consistency is top class but their high end guitars ARE TOP class.....nothing can beat them, IMO of course.

So, have you tried the R9 Subversion? If so, I'd prefer it if you be a little bit more unbiased. Your hate for Gibson is showing through your post. FWIW, I don't hate PRS I just love Gibson.

Bottomline: NOTHNG will ever sound like a Gibson. Believe that.

 

[BF109E]

Hi Side-track part 2

Regarding the Fender Japan stuffs that luthermusic brings in...

Sweelee can bring in those Made In America Fender stuffs ... but he has no control over anyone importing any other stuffs?

Fender might have appointed Swee Lee as the sole distributor for American Fender products but it should not affect anyone else in the market that imports alternatives to these very expensive high-end MIA stuffs.

Let's say I open a shop like luthermusic. And those Japanese Fender stuffs that I import, i claim they are my personal collection. So what is wrong bout selling "my own collection" of Fender Jap Strats? :x

What say you? :?

I suppose it all boils down to the contractual terms between Swee Lee and Fender, and whether Fender Japan is part of the contract. If it's not, Swee Lee would have nothing to say. Sending a stern letter to Luther Music would be pointless in this case, unless there is a breach from Luther Music.

The only way to overcome this 'monopoly' is for the manufacturers themselves to allow multiple representation of their products here. But being profits-focussed, it would seemed that it's better for them to stick with one official authorised dealer as prices can be better controlled.

Perhaps Luther Music could set up an online store, like Music123, or MF in the USA, to get around all these restrictions. On just bring in copies made from the same factories, just like what Esden Trading is doing. Their Suzuki brand of guitars, comprsing Epiphone, Fenderand Ibanez copies, come from the same OEM factories in China or Korea. And the standard is pretty decent for their prices.


8)

 

[pooo]

It's actually pretty disappointing to learn of this news. That luthermusic won't be bringing in the japan fenders. IMO the japan fenders can rival their american made counterparts in terms of quality, and for a fraction of the price too. But then again, I don't think i've ever seen sweelee carry japan fenders. Have any of you people seen them have stock of japan fenders? And i believe luther does parallel imports so i don't really see any reason for sweelee to warn the distributors or even luther for bringing the gear in...

 

[subversion]

hello Mr. Strings... i have no affilitions to either Gibson/ PRS/ Ibanez/ etc. because they don't give me guitars for free. i don't hate gibson either, the reason why i own one Les Paul. the Les Paul is a simple guitar that got it right from the start & its success sees through its existence til today. any enthusiasts would wanna own a piece of guitar history as it gives this undescribable rush/ high, i'm no exception. i value the guitar in its immaculate conception but liking the commercially motivated people who runs the show is a different story.

i see that you have certain inclinations to gibson yourself- well it's a free world isn't it? i wonder why i ended off my post on that gibson vs PRS thing with a reminder that there's no PRS without gibson? :roll: maybe i'd like to remind everyone that the guitar design these days begets procreation, nothing is 100% original anymore. poor me, i didn't get credit for this, didn't i?... does anyone here have the R9 so that i can give it a review? anyone? does swee lee inventorize this guitar? since you've tried it, maybe you can educate us on the reverence of this guitar?

hmm, sometimes i wonder why i bother giving opinions on certain products, since the poeple here can try these guitars & stuff out, on their own accord.

Mr. Strings sir, i own the PRS which is named after the Gibson president who's responsible for its successful run during his tenure- Ted McCarty. if i'm full of gibson scorn, i wouldn't even consider this guitar because it bears the name of a Gibson boss, whose company i'm supposed to dislike very much.

**In memory of Ted McCarty, whose bold Flying V & Explorer (among others) gave Fender a run for his Jazz/ Jaguar money. RIP. 8)

 

[subversion]

hey poo 8) visit MFO (@ Sims Drive), you can see the following Jap Fenders there:

*re-issue '51 P-bass
*Mustang bass

there's the Aerodyne Jazz Bass @ the Bras Basah showroom, it's in that glass enclosure...

ditto BF: because if it's entirely exclusive, anyone selling Jackson right now, should be cautioned as well right?

 

[marshall_law]

I love gibson but i just couldn't stand how gibson does business. Suing people off isn't a way to increase sales but i just hope that gibson can improve their quality. Seriously, gibson in the past and now, what is the differences? The only good thing in gibson guitar now is the resale value and burstbucker in some of the les paul. Just my 2 cents

 

[metallibeast]

I've never played a PRS in my life and I love Gibson...but I'll try to be fair

How many of you had the chance to try out both Gibson and PRS? One? two? or ten?

I think that Gibson/PRS makes probably a few hundred a year...I dun know the figures juz a guess. If you guys a basing your facts from trying a few Gibson/PRS than it would be unfair to both compaines....

OK some of you are probably gonna say most people on the net/forums said it.....how true? Are we taking this as the Gospel Truth?

But one thing I'm pretty sure cuz I've heard this from quite a number of people....friends that i know....forums etc (but it still could be wrong)

Gibson do let dealers that are that sells a lot of their guitars (in States only) to have the first shot at the new batches of guitars and the ones that are rejected goes to Cananda and Europe than the rest to Asia.

For your info, I've heard the same thing bout Ibanez and Fender but its a minority...so I cannot cfm this

So it is possible to say taht Asia's LP could possibly be of a lower standard than the ones from UK and US but since I've never played a LP from Asia to one taht is from teh US...I can't comment on anything...

Again this are juz infos that I've heard from friends/forums so on and so forth.....

Sorry for the long post

-Beast

 

[subversion]

Beast- any idea if the R9 is available @ Bentley?

 

[Strings]

Hello Subversion, you still haven't explained or given me links to where you got this quote "the people @ Gibson are trembling in their very pants every day when the PRS name is mentioned." I would gladly appreciate it if you do. Until then, it's best if you don't say such things like that again. No offense though, I'm just a Gibson lover. If it is based on YOUR own opinion I can accept that but I personally consider that 'brand-bashing'.

Anyway, the R9 is superb!!! I don't own one but I briefly tried it at TN through a Badcat. I can't give you specific details of the specs but what I can tell you is that this guitar is made like a dream. It's 'THE' Les Paul you wanna buy (that is if you are a Paul fan of course). Thick, creamy & solid tone and sustain for days (of course I'm kidding about the days part).

I don't think the R9 is available in Singapore yet, don't know though. If you have the opportunity to try one, please do try it. It may change your opinion about Gibson.

I hope there is no misunderstanding or ill feelings. I read a lot of your reviews here and I have to say that most of them are very helpful. I'm not against you or anything. I'm just a Gibson lover (not a nuthugger though )

 

[metallibeast]

Bentley is not the Dealer for Gibson....Woh Fatt is but however I do doubt it if they bring it in...but one of my friends (in SG) juz told me he has juz has invested in a R9 02, should reach SG sometime around late May/Early June and good news is, he has already invited me over to test it so if ya interested in testing it out....it shouldn't be a problem juz keep you updated

-Beast

 

[metallibeast]

Juz sidetracking a bit....its good to c that Strings and Sub are taking this in a very adult like manner no flaming and such juz a nice friendly and a little heated disscussion

-Beast

 

[subversion]

about gibson trembling in their pants- it's my interpretation of what a magazine said about being 'the sign of times' between these 2 guitar titans 'slogging it out for the coffers'. i can't remember which mag precisely, maybe Rolling Stones/ Australian Guitar mag? the article among other things noted that this isn't the first time Gibson's doing it, i think the lawsuit Ibanez models were an obvious case to note & if you don't already know, there was a case made against ESP's explorer-type design as well. sorry if i ommited this earlier but i'm just back from Borders in search of that magazine but it's not there anymore- maybe they've removed it 'cause it's an expired issue or something.
i'm of course looking at the bigger picture here & asking why a legal solution to it all & why now?

i was never a gibson basher- never. i was frustrated that the company refused to improve their products owing to obvious design oversights, notably highlighted by luthiers such as PRS himself & the late Sid Poole (RIP). now that gibson's in a very vulnerable position, then it's a little cruel on my part in wishing them a deserving penalty in due course but it's all for their own good. if you refer to my post on the gibson vs PRS, there was never a tone bashing, just assertions on the design conflict. in fact, all this legal battle might be a conspiracy after all because we'd see PRS singlecut lawsuit models in time to come that'll definitely rake in lots of $$$ :roll:

to everyone reading this: i have my faith in ALL forum members of this board, i've been to other singapore forums & i'd see juvenile (no offence to our adolescent members here some of whom i know personally) entries & other unethical what-nots. thank you Beast for noting the philosophy of this gathering :wink:

 

[subversion]

coming back to the R9, it'll be difficult for me to like this guitar by virtue of its make & electronics. i'm banking on its tone to win me over which is something i look forward to. my standard for a Les Paul is the LP Classic because of its more cutting edge tone (500T & 496R humbuckers manifest thick clear tones) & superb playability (the slim taper neck helps acceleration greatly) 8)

 

[metallibeast]

Juz purely from your prefence of slim neck and hotter pickup, I think you might not like the R9 since I think of the R9 as more of a blues guitar afterall majority of those who use the R9 are bluey player....and those who goes towards classic (with hotter pickups) are the hard rockers. And from the description I get from the lespaulforum.org it seems that the R9 has a very thick neck?

Perharps Strings can clarify on this?

-Beast

 

[Strings]

Thank you for your lengthy reply Subversion. Again I have no ill feelings towards you, I know you feel the same.

On a side note, I've met the employees of Gibson (just some of course, not the main line workers though) and they are all nice people. But attitude aside, let's talk about tone and quality. I can't disagree that PRS makes fine guitars with the quality to die for. That being said, the tone is nothing compared to a high quality Gibson. Great thing about PRS is that it is more affordable than a Gibson. I can't see Gibson in a vulnerable position (not PERIOD). As long as there are guitars available from Gibson such as Les Pauls and SGs, there are still people that would go for the original (look & tone wise) 8)

About product design, let's just put it this way. If it's my design and I patented it, I have the right to do whatever I want. I believe that people are mad at Gibson (at least majority of them) because they are unstatisfied with the 'normal' end production of their products. I have to agree, their '92 Les Paul Standard sounded WAY SUPERIOR than a '03 Les Paul Standard. That being said, the Elegant, R9 and Class 5 Les Pauls are top class. If I ever could afford another Paul, I'd save up for either one of those.

As for the R9, I wouldn't say that it is a "Blues only" type of guitar. I don't know much of it's history but from what I know and gather, it is GREAT for Blues-Rock (that's what I play anyway). The guitar neck feels like an "enhanced" version of the typical Gibson round neck (baseball type). Not slim, but thick. A very solid feel. If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to have one made with a slimmer profile (not sure though).

I can't see the R9 being a "shredder guitar". It's more of a laid back rhythm-lead blues rock guitar. At least that's what I think. If you love Led Zep-Guns N' Roses, that guitar would be perfect. The finish is awesome too.

 

[repulse87]

Sorry dude, your point is factually incorrect, Gibson never did patent the "Les Paul" design, if it did so, no other company (Tokai, ESP, PRS, Agile) would be able to copy the design. A patent was never present for the Les Paul design! Gibson CLAIMS that it has "trade dress" rights over the Les Paul design. Trade dress is like a trademark in that it serves as an indication of a unique product source. A great example of this is the classic old-fashioned glass Coca-cola bottle with the waist and flutes. Most people immediately know that its Coca-cola without even seeing the name on the bottle.

 

[veez]

Can anyone tell me whether i should save up for a Gibson Les Paul Standard when i am not a professional guitar player.

I have been thinking alot on getting this, which is one of my dream axes. I can say i am addicted to this thought ever since i caught the G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).

And sometimes i would say to myself, is it worthy to get a 4k instrument when you are not even professional.

Of course, i am inclined to think that having such an expensive guitar, it would be the ultimate dream come true.

say your views on these?

 

[marshall_law]

There is tons of people collecting historic les paul who are not even professional. But IMO, i feel that if you can't play a decent guitar piece no matter its genre, don't get a expensive guitar. No point using a $4000 plus guitar playing only basic chords. But if you really want a les paul, get the older les paul. IMO, the older les paul play and sound nicer. But if you got a top grade guitar, you must have a good amp. No point having a $10000 guitar with a $100 amp.