double stroke accents

hmm doubles take quite a while to get fast... about 8 months of pushing to the max... but after that it gets fun:)

i guess you really pass the test when you can like do a double on a soft surface like your leg or something... or at least that's when i realised the doubles were working like magic...
 
oh this one is a personal opinion...

when practicing doubles i think you just have to aim for even sound... the accenting of doubles on the first or second note will be practiced if you play flam rudiments...
 
agreed. the second note must be equal to the first note. and vice versa. both most sound the same as well as the timing.
 
dalton said:
tons! eh can la.. just whack. everyday practice give you 2 mths confirm zai alr..

tons! woah dint know you joined soft.

anyway i haven't been on soft for quite awhile, and i'm back to see that my thread is still alive. guess this topic's quite hot.
i'm still learning my doubles, just practised this morning haha.
what i've gotten so far is that alot of videos say very different things about double strokes. so i decided to take the one which i thought was best.
some videos tell you that you use the moeller to get that second note out, some videos say that double strokes are nothing but 2 hits instead of 1, some videos say that you gotta do second note accents but not spend too much time on them. well, i kinda went with second note accents. the video says not to spend too much time on second note accents cos they can make you pretty stiff, but i disagree. i now go with second note accents all the way. you don't have to, if your doubles are even enough to you. i just do them because of consistency at higher speeds. so yeah, i think i've got it figured out, and you just gotta find your own method. but as long as your double strokes sound good, i dont think people will really care how you learnt them.
 
for me it's very simple. doubles are part of the rudiments that every drummer's gotta learn. they arent moeller. its simple. moeller is moeller, buzz is buzz, singles is singles and doubles is doubles. dont fool yourselfs. they may seem alike but ultimate doubles are more of a wrist motion, which you use your fingers as well. the arm doesnt move. its just the wrist and the fingers. mainly why others tell you to accent the second is basically for practise. they find that many others tend to play the second note softer, in order to balance it out they accent the second. finally your doubles should sound exactly the same. two hits on right two hits on left. all at the same volume. and yea get the timing of the doubles right
 
daltonsim said:
inverted doubles... right. i learnt a new term.

are triples the Moeller stroke?
what about one handed rolls? would triples or doubles be more efficient?
doubles with feet, each foot plays 2 hits - is it heel-toe or two single hits?

man anything goes... as long as it rocks your boat :lol:

for feet double, you can have it any way you want, heel-toe, single hits, heel down, heel up whatever. if you like, u shld practice all of it. if time is a limiting factor, then practice only those you reali have to use.

as for double hands, one way of looking at it... you have an accent and a non-accent, hence you could practice it as

(caps for accents) RR rr Rr rR .... LL ll Ll lL

that makes it 4 different kinds of double strokes.

and, as you know, the hi-hat's surface being metal, is different from the snare, it got less rebound... hence, you may want to set aside time to practice doubles on hi-hats, and then doubles on snare.

depending on the speed, the note value and the tempo, your body starts to make micro-adjustments (whether consciously or subconsciously) to try to help you be able to play the stuff.

some of it is good, some of it not so good, and some if it bad (it hurt your body)

you have to constantly keep in awareness of what your body is doing, and listen to what you're playing.

this can be confusing for some.

best way of looking at it simple way?

keep questioning yourself and keep practicing!
 
yeah i practise my doubles, as with all my other rudiments, on 2 surfaces - normal rebound (pad), and no rebound (bed/pillow). and with metal sticks. it helps, really, when you pick up normal sticks and go to the drum, you're faster. woots. the feeling is intoxicating.
 
when u guys practise doubles, do u get the feeling that one hand is slightly weaker than the other? "Weaker" meaning the stroke doesn't sound smooth compared to the other. Weird thing is my "weaker" hand switches around...sometimes it can be right, sometimes it can be left.

I reasoned that it could be natural, as people are usually either left-handed or right-handed...very rare to have "both-handed". So there can only be one true "strong" hand at any one time. It's a brain thing i guess.
Would welcome any exercises to rectify that.

--------------

On a related topic. Fast, rapid-fire, explosive strokes done by top drummers like Billy Cobham...are they doubles or multiples or moeller? I've been trying to figure this out for sometime (video and recent live performance). Would welcome any advice and comments.
 
paradidz said:
when u guys practise doubles, .

yeah usually it's just one hand, i dont really get your drift. and do you mean 'even' when you say smooth? for even-ness, practise second note accents. at higher speeds your rolls will sound more even, and i guess..smooth.

paradidz said:
On a related topic..

you mean rolls? sometimes it's too fast to see heh, maybe my eye's too noob. but usually they use all kinds of techniques. i mean if you could do all those, you would do what's fastest, or what works. or everything.

yups.
 
er...my "smooth" includes the meaning of "even". But it also includes the meanings of "non-clumsy", "non-spastic", "in time"...the ultimate smoothness for me is like a robot executing those double-stroke rolls - perfect tone and precision.

Perhaps it could be fatigue...so one hand (4th finger especially) becomes less responsive. Must oil my tendons and bones =)


Yah, those top drummers are damn good. Even when i slow down my dvd player to one-eighth rate, their strokes/rolls are still too fast - it becomes blurry. I think if they quit drumming, they can be poker-card magicians!
 
paradidz said:
er...my "smooth" includes the meaning of "even". But it also includes the meanings of "non-clumsy", "non-spastic", "in time"...the ultimate smoothness for me is like a robot executing those double-stroke rolls - perfect tone and precision.
that's like drumline haha.

paradidz said:
Perhaps it could be fatigue...so one hand (4th finger especially) becomes less responsive. Must oil my tendons and bones =)
4th finger? i don't know. i use wrist all the way..
 
BebopIggy said:
Those fast rolls you see Billy Cobham do are all single stroke.

I suspected they were single strokes once before coz the rebounds were high...I think you're right. Gotta use high % rebounds in order to achieve that...no wonder his sticks were flying around like mad. And Billy's got big gorilla arms/wrists...perhaps that's where his explosive brute-force come from. =)

Thanks for your insight! Time to hit the gym, haha.


daltonsim said:
4th finger? i don't know. i use wrist all the way..

To use fingers, you need to focus on your fulcrum (thumb + index)...use the other fingers to snap the butt of the stick. For me, the 4th finger takes alot of the work...i dunno about other drummers...may be different.

To watch Billy play, maybe you can try Drummerworld...under Bill Cobham.
 
paradidz said:
To use fingers, you need to focus on your fulcrum (thumb + index)...use the other fingers to snap the butt of the stick. For me, the 4th finger takes alot of the work...i dunno about other drummers...may be different.
heh no i wasn't saying i dont know how to play with finger. just saying i dont use it. to each his own i guess. okay cool i'll check drummerworld.
 
Cobham's a nice guy..caught him when he came down here some months ago..
cobham_me.jpg

..don't ask me why he looks so blur in the pic though. Haha.
 
paradidz said:
er...my "smooth" includes the meaning of "even". But it also includes the meanings of "non-clumsy", "non-spastic", "in time"...the ultimate smoothness for me is like a robot executing those double-stroke rolls - perfect tone and precision.

Perhaps it could be fatigue...so one hand (4th finger especially) becomes less responsive. Must oil my tendons and bones =)


Yah, those top drummers are damn good. Even when i slow down my dvd player to one-eighth rate, their strokes/rolls are still too fast - it becomes blurry. I think if they quit drumming, they can be poker-card magicians!

whether or not its smooth depends on how much you practice. if one hand lags behind the other, obviously its weaker. train it more then. and yea how fast your fingers get tired is also dependent on practice.
 
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