The Ernie Ball Music Man Thread

[Ripper]

Sorry, then dun say EJ Strat. How about Fender American Vintage Hotrod at $4,300? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I PAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haiz... Lucky got EBMMs...:mrgreen:

Aiyoh brother, cannot compare EBMMs with your those "vintage" ones lah. Alamak, "vintage" got a price you know? must custom here, digitize that - no need money isit? Like a "VSOP" Levis, must wash and wash many times to get that look, price is more ex than a normal 500s series jeans mah (many cheap labour to acid-wash the fabric, haha..)

Good move lah - sell your "overpriced" strats, get some down-to-earth but quality EBMMs, and shred away!

 

[leecs]

Sorry, then dun say EJ Strat. How about Fender American Vintage Hotrod at $4,300? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I PAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haiz... Lucky got EBMMs...:mrgreen:

Bro, are you sure you paid that amount? KNN! kena tok cai tao is it?

 

[Rossie]

Whoa... Went to the gym for two hours and 1+ pages of replies...
Great!

The JP7 is not really accessible, and yes, I think it's niche because of the pricing... So that's probably a reason why. Not that it doesn't sell. However, I agree that the wisdom of not bringing some stock in is sound, cos it's risky. But can't they just bring ONE in?

But for Silos? You won't believe how much I got the latest 20th for! I almost died crying for joy!:mrgreen:

Good point, but then again they are exposing themselves to risks? Lets say if the customer likes it, and but then the color is kinda off, and proceeds to order another one? I know that particular testing model will help the the sales of that particular model, but then they are caught with that particular dead stock? An expensive dead stock btw...

But then again it's always good to have the whole range of models for customers to try out... Should we just recommend to them to order more? I guess that if they have enough feedback, they'll definitely be encouraged to order more stock... The power of stakeholder pressure!

Luckily I don't really like the 20th... Not my type actually... You can't tempt me!!! lol

Hey brother, you really believe what he says??? OMG, Do you know how much he praises the Y2D when he first got it, then complain so much that he cannot tahun it, only when he sold it away. And I never really know, forever, if he like a MM90s AL, or a SSS more. If you bother to track his posts, you will notice that for a while he like the SSS very much, then a while he would sing many many praises about the MM90s!!?? He will not tell you his verdict - bcos he is the unofficial AL endorsee! And why did he sell away he most-prized pinkburst AL? God knows why...

A final word on the AL here (being both an AL and Silo Spec owner) - the pickups are superb, you just need a clean booster to amp out the amazing tone, or get a tube amp & pump out the volume (Yup, please youtube Robs' clips, you know what I say.)

Oh! I think I saw that Pink AL on Colin's site... It's Rob's?

I saw the youtube vids d, TBH I prefer the SS SSS much more than the ALs... I don't really care for the MM90s though... It was the youtube vids that really made me consider the SS SSS... In one of Rob's replies, he said he prefer the tone from the SS SSS, but the neck of the AL, makes me wonder whether he'll try swapping them?

Which Rob? Robelinda? or Roburado? Got 2 lei... I assume Robelinda issit?

From his clips, I must say I prefer the SS tone... Not so punchy cos is not ash and not the SDs...

And thank god I not really P90 fan...

Yup, I really like the SS SSS tone he's getting... And I don't like MM90s too

 

[Ripper]

Cant be bothered with what Robelinda says man, since whatever he says, its gonna be good. Swop pickups? the only thing he do is swop pickGUARDs. Thats all. Only our Mr Whitestrat here dare swop pickUPs.

 

[Rossie]

Haha! Oh yeah... About White's 20th with the swapped pickups... Care to enlighten us more? Any clips to compared the stock and swapped ones?

 

[Whitestrat]

Haha! Oh yeah... About White's 20th with the swapped pickups... Care to enlighten us more? Any clips to compared the stock and swapped ones?

You must remember that the stock pups are actually damn good. They are the Virtual Vintage and Virtual Hot PAFs from DiMarzio. So, they're not bad to begin with.

I wanted a hotter sound on the same guitar, so I modded the RW one.

Stock on the maple:
SoundClick artist: Demioblue - page with MP3 music downloads

Modded on the RW:
SoundClick artist: Demioblue - page with MP3 music downloads

The new one that comes in will have an even more unusual sound: Humbucker From Hell in the neck, and the FRED in the bridge.:twisted: For the totally vintage sound.

 

[Whitestrat]

Cant be bothered with what Robelinda says man, since whatever he says, its gonna be good. Swop pickups? the only thing he do is swop pickGUARDs. Thats all. Only our Mr Whitestrat here dare swop pickUPs.

Don't start... I almost swopped necks on the 20ths...:twisted::mrgreen:

 

[Whitestrat]

Good point, but then again they are exposing themselves to risks? Lets say if the customer likes it, and but then the color is kinda off, and proceeds to order another one? I know that particular testing model will help the the sales of that particular model, but then they are caught with that particular dead stock? An expensive dead stock btw...

How to do business without a little risk?:mrgreen: I think the safest is to order the standard colours, like white, black and sunburst. Don't order the simi lava pearl, graphite pearl, egyptian smoke, though those are seriously nice, leave them for custom orders. The standard colours WILL SELL. I'll bet my wallet on it! If they bring in white SS with RW board, or Black with maple, and nobody buy in 3 months, I'll buy it myself!:twisted:

Besides, the samples can always be written off as ex stock in 5 years, and sold of AT COST, bringing no damage to the retailer's accounts. You need to amotise that cost as a cost of sales... I'm sort of running a retail business, with MUCH higher risks man... (think millions of $$$) I know this can work. What's 10 guitars at a cost of $1,200 each? (I'm assuming that's the cost) That's not even worth the price of 1 of my products man...

 

[Whitestrat]

Bro, are you sure you paid that amount? KNN! kena tok cai tao is it?

No lah... I think I paid $3,200 for it... Which is cheaper than a Silo Spec from Sinamex!!! That's MY point...:mrgreen:

 

[Whitestrat]

Aiyoh brother, cannot compare EBMMs with your those "vintage" ones lah. Alamak, "vintage" got a price you know? must custom here, digitize that - no need money isit? Like a "VSOP" Levis, must wash and wash many times to get that look, price is more ex than a normal 500s series jeans mah (many cheap labour to acid-wash the fabric, haha..)

Bro... Not relics lah... you thinking custom shop. No. The Vintage Hotrods are brand new, with no marks, or scratches. The vintage bit is only in the name, and some of the specs.

P.S. I dun/can't shred...

 

[Whitestrat]

Luckily I don't really like the 20th... Not my type actually... You can't tempt me!!! lol

That's cos you haven't tried one yet...:twisted::twisted::twisted:

No lah... if you didn't like the feel of a Silo, then you might not like the 20th. It feels like a Silo, but sounds like your BFR.:mrgreen:

 

[Rossie]

You must remember that the stock pups are actually damn good. They are the Virtual Vintage and Virtual Hot PAFs from DiMarzio. So, they're not bad to begin with.

I wanted a hotter sound on the same guitar, so I modded the RW one.

Stock on the maple:
SoundClick artist: Demioblue - page with MP3 music downloads

Modded on the RW:
SoundClick artist: Demioblue - page with MP3 music downloads

The new one that comes in will have an even more unusual sound: Humbucker From Hell in the neck, and the FRED in the bridge.:twisted: For the totally vintage sound.

Cool! Will listen to them in the evening...
I love the HFH pickup too! Lovely pickup... But the name is so... Metal...?!?! lol...

Besides, the samples can always be written off as ex stock in 5 years, and sold of AT COST, bringing no damage to the retailer's accounts. You need to amotise that cost as a cost of sales... I'm sort of running a retail business, with MUCH higher risks man... (think millions of $$$) I know this can work. What's 10 guitars at a cost of $1,200 each? (I'm assuming that's the cost) That's not even worth the price of 1 of my products man...

They are minimizing their risk mah... Coz EBMM is a niche brand, hard to sell in large quantities... I actually would like it to stay this way too though... On one hand we are trying to get more people to try out EBMM, but on the other hand I hope that it isn't gonna be tooooooooo popular like Fenders and Gibsons... It will eventually lose its exclusiveness...

Anyway, about the profit margin, I believe the gross profit margin on each guitar is around the 20% region... It's sorta like the rule of thumb in the guitar business... Amortizing your stocks still appears are lost in profits mah, and if the their contract between EBMM has a clause that states they cannot sell for below a specific amount than how? Cannot sell at cost to contra it out d...Their target customers are actually not gigging/working musicians, it's actually targeting working people who has the dough to drop on a guitar...

 

[Ripper]

They are minimizing their risk mah... Coz EBMM is a niche brand, hard to sell in large quantities... I actually would like it to stay this way too though... On one hand we are trying to get more people to try out EBMM, but on the other hand I hope that it isn't gonna be tooooooooo popular like Fenders and Gibsons... It will eventually lose its exclusiveness...

I like EBMM being this way too. I think they will. Family business model, unless they sold out one day.

 

[leecs]

I don think they will be sold out one day.

 

[Whitestrat]

Anyway, about the profit margin, I believe the gross profit margin on each guitar is around the 20% region... It's sorta like the rule of thumb in the guitar business... Amortizing your stocks still appears are lost in profits mah, and if the their contract between EBMM has a clause that states they cannot sell for below a specific amount than how? Cannot sell at cost to contra it out d...Their target customers are actually not gigging/working musicians, it's actually targeting working people who has the dough to drop on a guitar...

Amortising your costs over a 5 year period registers very little in your P&L You don't lose as much as you think. Sell more than 5 guitars per year in the 20% margin, and you'd have covered your costs for that year, and actually register a profit. Also, paying customers won't want to buy a 5 year old guitar that's been played by the whole world, and you know how EBMM guitars get dirty at the necks easily right?

 

[Whitestrat]

Eh... you guys realise something on the EBMM forums? The whole world wants to own the Axis and Lukes and JPs, but they're the first ones to be on the for sale thread! The Silos, ALs and the morse are rare offerings. Once in a while you get the Silos, but hardly morse and ALs. I can sense that ALs and the morse are not so sellable, but the Silos are a good selling item for EBMM, and most people how own them tend to want to keep them.

But I'm shocked at the number of Axis and JPs for sale.

 

[Rossie]

I know it doesn't sound like alot if you amortize it over 5 years, but it still eats in their profit somehow... Chinaman mentality doesn't want this to happen, even it's only eating a little into their profit...
BTW, what accounting standards does Singapore follows? I assume its the AASB?

Remember that 20% is only the gross profit, there're still operating expenses to consider...Their net profit is should be lower than that... And if they want to continue making EBMM available locally, they'll need to mark up alittle higher to achieve their targeting contribution margin to make being the dealer for EBMM profitable... Coz at the end of the day, all that matters is profit...

 

[Rossie]

Eh... you guys realise something on the EBMM forums? The whole world wants to own the Axis and Lukes and JPs, but they're the first ones to be on the for sale thread! The Silos, ALs and the morse are rare offerings. Once in a while you get the Silos, but hardly morse and ALs. I can sense that ALs and the morse are not so sellable, but the Silos are a good selling item for EBMM, and most people how own them tend to want to keep them.

But I'm shocked at the number of Axis and JPs for sale.

Yeah, but then according to EBMM sales, JP is one of their best selling guitars...

 

[Whitestrat]

I know it doesn't sound like alot if you amortize it over 5 years, but it still eats in their profit somehow... Chinaman mentality doesn't want this to happen, even it's only eating a little into their profit...
BTW, what accounting standards does Singapore follows? I assume its the AASB?

Remember that 20% is only the gross profit, there're still operating expenses to consider...Their net profit is should be lower than that... And if they want to continue making EBMM available locally, they'll need to mark up alittle higher to achieve their targeting contribution margin to make being the dealer for EBMM profitable... Coz at the end of the day, all that matters is profit...

I dunno about the accounting standards man... That's for my finance dept to go wonder about. :mrgreen:

20% GP is low. By ANY standards, and is usually accepted for FMCG. For items like guitars, I really doubt the GP is 20%. Especially when the US MRSP is already 30% lower than our local RSP pricing. I believe the markup is already a fair bit as it stands. At that rate of sales, if Sinamex only operates at 20% GP, they would have gone out of business long ago.

Also, cost of sales isn't attributed to that one guitar sale alone. It's shared amongst all the other equipment. If you have a GP that low, the key method of survival is distribution. And that's what Swee Lee and Davis does. Those are the 2 leading retailers in terms of annual revenue. I some how don't think Sinamex is in the same category of numbers, but I don't know.

Technically speaking, the product should already have a healthy margin from the factory cost to the MRSP. That alone would have a buffer. Then when you do the currency conversion from USD to SGD, there's another currency buffer there. So 2 stages of margins to work with. With a further mark up, which is what I suspect they're already doing, then it's no longer good for the customer.

This is why I'd rather pay for an air ticket to somewhere else, have a holiday, and buy another guitar! And if a place like Japan, where the operation costs are sky high, is still cheaper than Singapore, then what does that tell you about the local dealer???:mrgreen:

 

[lightice]

Their notion of the higher price is always " But you get to try out the guitar first hand, get a feel of it etc etc etc.... " Load of bull I say.. when the difference in price is 30-50%... it may even be more.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement, because the price difference is SO great that just to have the chance to test it out doesn't warrant the extra 30-50% difference in price. (Shipping included)

However if the difference in price for a USD1.2 - 1.5k guitar is around $150-$300 shipping included, I will rather pay the extra $150-300.