Obama to receive Singapore plea
- Thread starter StarDust
- Start date
I think many of us may be missing the point completely. As far as this video goes, Dr. Chee was asking President Obama to take a more serious look about the perceived human rights abuses in Singapore. Where did all the "bugger", "incompetent" come from?
But since all of you began comparing and judging, may as well..
It's true PAP built Singapore from scratches, it's true they provided shelter, jobs, opportunities to grow the economy, and it did grow. They were pretty good at nation-building. But let's not always talk about the past and what good the PAP in government has done. This is now and it will be the future. For those who think Dr. Chee and the SDP don't have the substance to lead this nation, have you spoken to any of them? attended their rallies? browsed their website?
It's not that PAP isn't changing within; I believe it is. Discussions seem to be more open now and more people actually talk about politics. That's a good sign cos the PAP in govt recognised the need to adapt to our generation. We're not building a nation anymore. Relatively, most of us have food, shelter and money to put in a bank. We're also educated and so we'll begin to ask for more, we'll demand things that are intellectual. Think about it as growing up - we began as young kids who listen to our parents, then we became teenagers who want more freedom and say in our own lives. Eventually, we grow up and learn to listen to our parents again but we still make up own mind. The question is - are you running your life or is the govt doing it for you? And how do you want it to be in future?
Economy is the big word here, and there's nothing wrong with it, until it upsets the balance. Notice the economy can never be separated from politics. Some of you think the PAP makes a good ruling party so long as it provides stability. Well, are we becoming too comfortable? Does stability equate to happiness? What's suppose to be the basis of humanity and happiness? Money? We have many things material, now, what do we not have?..
Politics here is often perceived as a game but let's get something straight. To quote Charles de Gaulle, "Politics is too important to be left to politicians." It ain't a job, people. Politics is the means for citizens to participate in the affairs of their country. It's got everything to do with your freedom. Sad to say, this very freedom we enjoy partially now may be taken away because there is no alternative to PAP. Although, the PAP MPs, by and large, do their job and take care of the people.
Many times when somebody criticizes the govt., it'll throw the gauntlet at the person and ask him to form a political party. Hey, since when is a regular citizen not entitled criticize the govt.? The thing about PAP that bothers me is that they can only accept criticism when they ask for them.
The next few things that bother me is that they are almost everywhere on the national level. GICs, Temasek, the Courts, the media.. the latter two bother me the most. The judiciary are supposed to uphold the law, and everybody's equal before it. But ask yourself if this is really the case. The media basically praises the govt almost all the time though it feels more open now. Sometimes you do get one or two editorials that write of different opinions but it's still not a free media, save for the Internet.
While the PAP in power has, no doubt, fair well in building a relatively good economy, it hasn't succeed as a morally true government. Think about our pledge, think about the facade of democracy we have. As many will say, it's a "wayang". It's simply hypocritical that the PAP claims to be democratic. I may respect them a bit more if they start calling themselves a dictatorial or authoritarian party.
Fortunately, things are changing, we'll become a more democratic society. It will be good if PAP voluntarily change but I don't think that'll be the case in the next ten years. And it's true in every democratization, somebody has to be the opposition, the one to stick to their word and demand the freedom that all people deserve. I think Dr. Chee's simply trying to make that demand.
But since all of you began comparing and judging, may as well..
It's true PAP built Singapore from scratches, it's true they provided shelter, jobs, opportunities to grow the economy, and it did grow. They were pretty good at nation-building. But let's not always talk about the past and what good the PAP in government has done. This is now and it will be the future. For those who think Dr. Chee and the SDP don't have the substance to lead this nation, have you spoken to any of them? attended their rallies? browsed their website?
It's not that PAP isn't changing within; I believe it is. Discussions seem to be more open now and more people actually talk about politics. That's a good sign cos the PAP in govt recognised the need to adapt to our generation. We're not building a nation anymore. Relatively, most of us have food, shelter and money to put in a bank. We're also educated and so we'll begin to ask for more, we'll demand things that are intellectual. Think about it as growing up - we began as young kids who listen to our parents, then we became teenagers who want more freedom and say in our own lives. Eventually, we grow up and learn to listen to our parents again but we still make up own mind. The question is - are you running your life or is the govt doing it for you? And how do you want it to be in future?
Economy is the big word here, and there's nothing wrong with it, until it upsets the balance. Notice the economy can never be separated from politics. Some of you think the PAP makes a good ruling party so long as it provides stability. Well, are we becoming too comfortable? Does stability equate to happiness? What's suppose to be the basis of humanity and happiness? Money? We have many things material, now, what do we not have?..
Politics here is often perceived as a game but let's get something straight. To quote Charles de Gaulle, "Politics is too important to be left to politicians." It ain't a job, people. Politics is the means for citizens to participate in the affairs of their country. It's got everything to do with your freedom. Sad to say, this very freedom we enjoy partially now may be taken away because there is no alternative to PAP. Although, the PAP MPs, by and large, do their job and take care of the people.
Many times when somebody criticizes the govt., it'll throw the gauntlet at the person and ask him to form a political party. Hey, since when is a regular citizen not entitled criticize the govt.? The thing about PAP that bothers me is that they can only accept criticism when they ask for them.
The next few things that bother me is that they are almost everywhere on the national level. GICs, Temasek, the Courts, the media.. the latter two bother me the most. The judiciary are supposed to uphold the law, and everybody's equal before it. But ask yourself if this is really the case. The media basically praises the govt almost all the time though it feels more open now. Sometimes you do get one or two editorials that write of different opinions but it's still not a free media, save for the Internet.
While the PAP in power has, no doubt, fair well in building a relatively good economy, it hasn't succeed as a morally true government. Think about our pledge, think about the facade of democracy we have. As many will say, it's a "wayang". It's simply hypocritical that the PAP claims to be democratic. I may respect them a bit more if they start calling themselves a dictatorial or authoritarian party.
Fortunately, things are changing, we'll become a more democratic society. It will be good if PAP voluntarily change but I don't think that'll be the case in the next ten years. And it's true in every democratization, somebody has to be the opposition, the one to stick to their word and demand the freedom that all people deserve. I think Dr. Chee's simply trying to make that demand.
hifi_killer
New member
i dont think Dr Chee did that to get Obama's attention. He had probably wanted to proclaim his alignment with Obama to regain crediblity. The plea was uploaded hours after Obama's inauguration to make it even more politically significant.
Judging from the number of views and comments on youtube. I think he had achieved his objective.
Judging from the number of views and comments on youtube. I think he had achieved his objective.
gutturalpiss
New member
This president is giving a lot of people too much hope. I love his speeches, though.
Is there a better country/government that Singapore can learn from?
davidmars, i have no idea if what you say about the government being in the courts is true, but do realise that you are making a very grave accusation. you are effectively implying that the government influences the judiciary (i.e. the judiciary system is basically corrupt). if this is not what you mean, please clarify. if this IS what you mean, be prepared to back up your claim sooner or later.
take care and think carefully.
take care and think carefully.
Ah, almost got me there, senn_liu. What I think is that the government has the means and clout to influence the judges. But whether or not they do that - and since I don't have ready evidence they do - I can't say. Although, I don't think this is a grave accusation because even the judiciary can't escape oversight.
And James, now that you ask, yes, there are many countries we can learn from, perhaps too many to list here. I say this with as much as knowledge I have; I don't proclaim to be a know-all and I'm definitely not a world traveller or a legal expert. I form my opinions with what's already known to me.
Having said that, all forms of government are flawed, one way or another. That's why laws and regulations change with time. We're young, time's on our side.
And James, now that you ask, yes, there are many countries we can learn from, perhaps too many to list here. I say this with as much as knowledge I have; I don't proclaim to be a know-all and I'm definitely not a world traveller or a legal expert. I form my opinions with what's already known to me.
Having said that, all forms of government are flawed, one way or another. That's why laws and regulations change with time. We're young, time's on our side.
cold_static544
New member
lol as i scroll through this thread, the posts in the later pages seem to get longer and longer.
Oh and, I like to agree on a point posted by fellows here earlier - and that is MM Lee, most inside the top level of the government and the MPs want the best for us, the people. It's just that their idea of "best" may not be the same as some of ours. And this is exactly the time an opposition comes in. No govt. or ruling party can sit around and not change if they expect to be in power for the long term. No politics is healthy too, if there is no true opposition.
And I also agree with you, empihsrow, on what you posted on the other thread - that we have to speak up and put our words into deeds and not just post senseless messages on forums. How do you think we can put our words into actions?
And I also agree with you, empihsrow, on what you posted on the other thread - that we have to speak up and put our words into deeds and not just post senseless messages on forums. How do you think we can put our words into actions?
Dude, the only way is to be a politician and have the oratory skills needed to convince EVERYONE. You can't change the way Singapore rules itself by protesting. Chances are... You will be lost in transition.
But if something goes wrong somewhere, I guess maybe we need something more drastic.
From my perspective point of view, to get out of this recession, we need money to start circulating again. So we have to spend. But people will disagree cos they already don't have the means to spend. Hm.
tim098
New member
That is always the case in recessions isn't it. That's why the Govt. is trying to have companies keep their workers, so that the level of unemployment doesn't rise too much.
But we'll see if this can actually happen. I'm predicting the full impact of the recession to hit after Chinesee New year festivities
But we'll see if this can actually happen. I'm predicting the full impact of the recession to hit after Chinesee New year festivities
hifi_killer
New member
well.. boosting the domestic demand will see a somewhat limited effect in our economy. Singapore's economy is heavily trade dependent.
So.. to sustain our trading volume, we will need to diversify our sources of trade. To take a more proactive role in regional organisations e.g. ASEAN, establishing trade agreements. But yea we've already been doing that.
So.. to sustain our trading volume, we will need to diversify our sources of trade. To take a more proactive role in regional organisations e.g. ASEAN, establishing trade agreements. But yea we've already been doing that.
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