My very unpleasant deal with a buyer

[Sunrisenblues]

TS: i feel for you. I myself have encountered sales where parents were involved.

haha yeah..
sometimes the parents themselves should reserve their comments to themselves..
seriously..they need to understand that the value of guitars dont really depreciate..especially gibson..
when I said my guitar was a year old.. the father was like.."there is no way i am paying 900 for this..700 maybe.."

i told him he could gladly buy a new one from sweelee..
if you dont know anything..dont come and talk cock and lowball..seriously WTF

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

Ha..haa... ya man, imagine these are the kind of situation our music shop face usually.

shop folks prolly worst, if refused to sell, easily kena complained online.

Hehe, next time, shops might come up with printed statement and give to walk in customer, (or if posting classied online, can put this up as well)

" We, the shop owner, reserved the rights, within our shop premises, to refused your sale due to incessant haggling on having discount(when after being informed on no discount policy), condescending tone on sales inquiries, stupidity/lack of basic human intelligence when seeking help and unauthorized testing of equipment before asking politely with a 'may i" or "thank you"

Any infringement of the above mentioned condition, we reserved the utmost rights to evict you out of the premises by force and hurling verbal insults at you directly in front, left, right, center, over, diagonally across and under you.

We do seek your kind understanding in order to maintain a harmonious browsing and buying experience. As much we love to bend over and serve you like king, we hope to see you behaving like a human with some common sense and courtesy first.

Thank you for the time and do sign on the below space on compliance of the above.
__________

If after reading the above and having disagreement with any points, do rest assured that we have no time to answer any questions or doubts or disagreement that you have. Please take your business somewhere else where you think that might served you better.

Regards
Management

 

[ymmak]

To TS, I feel for you, but I feel that there shouldnt be any need to overreact or complain.

It is perfectly understandable for the parent in that scenario to act in such a manner because there is limited avenue for legal redress for the buyer, should there be any disputes resulting from a transaction involving a seller who is not in the business of selling. For instance, from my understand, many provisions in the Sale of Goods Act do not apply when the seller is not in the business of selling (aka businessman), thus there is limited protection for the buyer. In such a circumstance, it is understandable for the buyer to be extra prudent, just like the saying goes caveat emptor.

The parent's conducts were merely to protect his own interest. I am not exactly sure how would checking your IC and questioning the origin of the guitar would help protect his interest, but I feel that what the parent did wasnt too unreasonable, albeit he could be nicer or more tactful in his approach.

I feel that you probably shouldnt feel too personally affected by the event, and shouldnt even complain too much, because such discussion, if left to perpetuate, usually lacks merit and maturity.

 

[guitarsan]

i think its a problem of our society..
they protray traits of elitism..
his son is in ACSI doing IB...

the kid was telling me how his dad gave me 1000 for every A1 he got for his O levels..
the guitar is his reward for one of the As..

Are you telling me..when you are rich..you can treat others as peasants...
a lie..a fake a cheat..??

I can already picture a typical egoistic elitist....who is ignorant and hence fearful and distrustful of his would-be purchase, but dare not show it due to pride/ego, thus behaving like a jerk to mask his shortcomings. I've seen and experienced these so-called "elites" many times before. Rich? Some are, but some are just pretenders. And perhaps you're way too nice and obliging, so he decided to become more aggressive and patronizing.

The key is to be cordial, be helpful to allay his concern about authenticity, but stay very firm in your price and don't give in to unreasonable demands like checking your 11B. If he still persist his ways, tell him to take it or leave it, and be prepared to walk away. So don't fret over this because (i) you're not dealing with him again, (ii) you got your full selling price.


p.s. if this elitist guy is dealing with the owner of a certain used guitar shop at Peninsular SC, be prepared to call in the police or paramedics....coz all hell will break loose!

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

you should have just said no and walked away, make the kid happy, make yourself happy, dad also happy. if my dad really didn't mind buying me a brand new gibson instead of a 2nd hand one, i know i wouldn't protest!! :twisted:

 

[skyflux]

It's just another concerned parent.

Seriously , if the father was to make his own second-hand deals , (etc car mods , decals) I'm sure he wouldn't behave like that in front of his own dealer xD.

I think he isn't familar with guitars , thus being paranoid of being scammed , he makes these comments. An aged instrument isn't the same as an aged electronic item.. Perhaps the father was looking at the guitar like as if it was an electronic device.

 

[ymmak]

It's just another concerned parent.

Seriously , if the father was to make his own second-hand deals , (etc car mods , decals) I'm sure he wouldn't behave like that in front of his own dealer xD.

I think he isn't familar with guitars , thus being paranoid of being scammed , he makes these comments. An aged instrument isn't the same as an aged electronic item.. Perhaps the father was looking at the guitar like as if it was an electronic device.

If the father was to make his own second-hand deals, such as a car deal, he need not behave like that because there are several avenues that provide protection for him as a consumer, since the transaction involves a consumer and a seller who is in the course of business (dealer).

However, like you mentioned, the father could be unfamiliar with guitars, let alone second-hand dealings of guitars. Thus he acted the way he did, probably due to skepticism, paraonoia etc. His comment that $900 is too expensive for a 1yr old Gibson, is probably something that most regulars will frown upon, but it is understandable given that the assumption that he is clueless about guitars.

I totally can identify with you that having such a buyer will make a seller's blood boil, but I will not let this episode affect me too much.

 

[K2desoog]

saw this sign at a shop this afternoon:

Service level depends on my mood and your attitude
(or something like that)

I'd walk away like James said.
But tks for letting us in on your experiences.
Something to look out for when dealing with kids.

 

[Sunrisenblues]

how does one protects himself as a seller in cases such as when personal details are exchanged?

What if a month later..the buyer thinks that buying a second hand guitar is like buying a car...where he starts complaining about scratchy pots and rusty strings like its a major problem(scenario) and such and wants a full refund ? and come knocking on my door..

 

[Zerox Millienium]

The S.O.F.T. isn't responsible for your misadventure.

A protective and cynical Dad, who is financing his son to buy the guitar, knows nothing about the value of vintage and exotic musical instruments. The father's defensive nature led him to make the first move to intimidate the thread starter by throwing at him a barrage of offensive remarks.

Unable to fathom the value of the transaction, the father was doubtful and unwillingly to part his money to finance the transaction for his son. Some form of haggling ensued.

Personally I don't think there's any blame involved here. This is just a mismatch of buyer and seller. I lament the buyer's incompetent acquisition of money to finance the transaction by himself and had to rely on his Dad. The buyer could have tried to suppress his urge to buy OR could have tried to educate and convince his Dad that it's a real bargain.

The buyer's Dad appearance in that meeting is a consequence of the buyer's inability to get the financing to buy the guitar.

Having concluded that it was a mismatch of buyer and seller, they should have just parted ways instead of wasting time negotiating.

I guess the seller was in a hurry to sell his guitar for the cash and willingly get involved with that troublesome father. Not sure if it's a prudent thing to do. The seller could have just waited for another opportunity to show up later.

Moral of the story is just walk off from the deal if it turns sour or uncomfortable for either party.

Regards.

 

[1mband]

I pity the boy...
Whatever the father did to you infront of the boy, it will have a lasting impression thru' out the boy's life.
Yes, being defensive is a natural instinct, but not to the extent of losing manners and respect for the person.

TS, you are giving a good deal on the SG (the teal green one right?).
You should have just walk away from this deal.
I did it a couple of times, especially to pple who didn't know the real value of gears.
No point selling things to pple who don't even know what they are buying.

To add on, my deal with a father-n-son experience is this:
Upon inspecting the guitar, all were happy about the deal, and the transaction was thru'.
Dad: "So, what if we have problems with the guitar after bringing it home?"
Me: "You can always call me on my mobile"
Dad: "That's good, thanks."

It was smooth, and the father is a real nice chap.
Needed my ID ? No, just mobile will do.

 

[syakir96]

Seems that i'm not the only one experincing transactions on good friday! Tried buying a TCM guitar.PianistDarren dosen't live up to his words. He said he could deal anywhere butwhen i dealt with him he said he could deal at yishun only, he put the day to deal a weel later. very inconvient.the day before dealing, he didnt reply to my sms or what time to meet. On the day itself he late that day,he postponed the deal on friday.I immediately replied and ask what time to meet.He replied two days later -.- , and said that he's not selling anymore.

 

[cheesedaele]

Sounds more like someone offered him a better price and he had neither the integrity to honour or your agreement nor the balls and manners to tell you so.

 

[Sunrisenblues]

I had a couple of offers for the Gibson. the reason why i sold the guitar to him despite finding out that he was a kid during the exchange of smses was that he was the first to enquire..

I have a value system that if you ask first..you get it...there are many a times that i posted a guitar and some other buyer would offer a higher amount to get it...i still wouldn't sell it to the rest.. its about honoring your agreement to the first buyer..that's my honest opinion..

there was once where i met a guy to sell my emgs at newton..he found it a little old because the letterings were fading..he rejected the offer..but he offered me 20 dollars for making the trip down..and showed me how to re-adjust the height of my pups back on my guitar...these are the kind of memorable deals i had on soft. where people were nice..
i cant say the same about the younger generation though

 

[junkiemanxl]

Here's a story on my end with parents.

i was selling a deluxe players strat some time back. He's a nice ang moh kid. probably abt 14-16yrs old. he called me up and asked me about the details including the serial number. so i gave him the serial for him to run his checks and arranged for him to come for a viewing at my place on a sunday morning. We also did discuss about the price and i mentioned that the price is firm which was mentioned in my ad and he agreed to it.

Come sale day, the buyer arrived on schedule but to my surprise, he brought his entire family to my place. Dad, Mom and little brother. Dad was ang moh and mom was korean. despite the entire family showing up, i welcomed them into my home with a smile.

I could see that the buyer really wanted the guitar badly. he mentioned that this was his first fender. The kid's father was the main tester as he himself is a guitar player and knows his gear. The father asked me quite a number of questions about the guitar and did his share of inspections and tone testing and to a point where he "suspected" that i was modifying the tone of the guitar with my pedal board. I did him a favor and bypassed the pedalboard and gave him a direct signal to my amp and that was cleared up.

So when all the testing was done, the father gave the ok stamp of approval that this deal was ready to close and you could see the kid's eyes light up. Father gave mom the sign to close the deal and mom went into a bargaining spree. I told mom that we (buyer and seller) had already established that the sale price is firm prior to the sale and there was no way i was going to negotiate the price further. But she kept insisting and forcing her way around. It was till the point where the father told her "you have to respect the sale. if he says its firm then its fixed".

mom still tries all the plays in her bargaining playbook.

Guitar is second hand..
But the case is so old...
Its his first electric guitar....
How do i know if this guitar is genuine?! (dad already established that)
But the knobs are slightly yellowish...
the gold hardware is slightly tarnished...

At this point, i was starting to loose my patience. The one thing i hate when closing a sale is when someone tries to instigate every screw and detail to a bargaining spree. I politely told the mother that i was not eager to sell if she was not comfortable with the sale and i would offer their family some coffee & tea on the way out even if they chose not to buy as i was fine with a no sale transaction.

After which, mom and dad had a small discussion and the sale finally closed at the specified FIRM price. That transaction took a good hour or so. More than half the time spent was for bargaining. It's not that the sale was bad but much could have been avoided to make it better.

Morale of the story here...
Always stay firm on your decisions and not let others take you for a ride. Customer is not always king in these kind of cases.

One can buy your gear at a price but not your pride and dignity

 

[ymmak]

how does one protects himself as a seller in cases such as when personal details are exchanged?

What if a month later..the buyer thinks that buying a second hand guitar is like buying a car...where he starts complaining about scratchy pots and rusty strings like its a major problem(scenario) and such and wants a full refund ? and come knocking on my door..

I am unsure as to how the father can cause detriment to you by asking for your personal details, as opposed to more important details such as credit card number. So you need not worry too much.

Buying a second hand guitar is like buying a car, only if it was bought through a person in the business of selling (aka businessman). And only as such, can the father demand refund and the seller is liable for refund, because there are several avenues in law that empower him with the rights to do so. However, you the seller, obviously isnt in the business of selling, especially that you are still in NS, and NS disallow moonlighting. Therefore, the father has little rights to ask for refund, while you as the seller is not obligated to give a refund, knowing well that the father lacks this right. So you need not worry.

 

[Sunrisenblues]

Thankyou! thanks for the insight

 

[fgl]

There will always be ass holes like these .... I faced a few in the past, both in my soft dealings and in the nature of my day job

1. Personally I would politely tell the dad, if he could afford a new one and had doubt's of the guitar's authenticity, "we both both wasting each other's time" and just walk away.

2. Agree to show IC details but ask to see their details as well.... see how they feel.

Rest assured beb - any minor problems with the guitar from now till when ever, the dad will surely contact you and be a pain in the ass....

no point dealing with these kind of idiots - typical kiasu Singaporean type .....

 

[junkiemanxl]

Rest assured beb - any minor problems with the guitar from now till when ever, the dad will surely contact you and be a pain in the ass....

no point dealing with these kind of idiots - typical kiasu Singaporean type .....

I agree with FGL on this one.
If you are giving out warranty of some sort, you have to be clear on how long this warranty last on your end. Some ppl just dont get it and you'll end up being a service centre of some sort.

 

[guitarsan]

mom still tries all the plays in her bargaining playbook.

Auntie will do what auntie does best....haha!