My opinion of what's wrong/needs to be improved on with SG music scene.
- Thread starter noojoo
- Start date
daryl
New member
sadly, these grey glasses are worn by many people out there. he represents a majority of music listeners in our country who have negative opinions on local music. and for good reason? you guys could have continued citing good local bands and try to convert him, instead it evolved into something somewhat childish and petty.
if he isn't informed enough, give him the information and see if he still thinks local music sucks. same applies to what you would do to a friend who has negative opinions about local music
i still am disappointed by the way you guys handled it but let's see how fire will react against fire
rottenramone
Active member
ATC wants blank to put money where mouth is.
but blank is speaking from a consumer pov rather than a practitioner pov imho.
i think blank is over generalising things. but then i speak more as a practising muso than an average listener.
but blank is speaking from a consumer pov rather than a practitioner pov imho.
i think blank is over generalising things. but then i speak more as a practising muso than an average listener.
I'm just going to condense this.
These are all thoughts/suggestions/opinions(reference:see below!)! :O
Ask local musicians, ask them who their top 3 favorite bands are, most of them will mention foreign bands, maybe 1 local band will creep in.
Listen to their music, what do they sound most like? You are influenced by what you love the most(american football), who tries and incorporates things they don't like as much into their music?
But...but..but why did they say they like the band then?
It's alot nicer of them!
Musicians here are so used to praise and will evidently think very highly of themselves, case in point.
Remember! These are all thoughts/suggestions/opinions.
My thoughts/suggestions/opinions on what could help raise the standard: Be more self-critical. Listen to more music. Don't corner yourself.
I am not imposing them onto you, these are thoughts,suggestions and opinions.
impose
2.to put or set by or as if by authority
thinking
3.thought; judgment, reflection: clear thinking.
suggest
1. To offer for consideration or action; propose:
opinion
1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
These are all thoughts/suggestions/opinions(reference:see below!)! :O
Ask local musicians, ask them who their top 3 favorite bands are, most of them will mention foreign bands, maybe 1 local band will creep in.
Listen to their music, what do they sound most like? You are influenced by what you love the most(american football), who tries and incorporates things they don't like as much into their music?
But...but..but why did they say they like the band then?
It's alot nicer of them!
Musicians here are so used to praise and will evidently think very highly of themselves, case in point.
Remember! These are all thoughts/suggestions/opinions.
My thoughts/suggestions/opinions on what could help raise the standard: Be more self-critical. Listen to more music. Don't corner yourself.
I am not imposing them onto you, these are thoughts,suggestions and opinions.
impose
2.to put or set by or as if by authority
thinking
3.thought; judgment, reflection: clear thinking.
suggest
1. To offer for consideration or action; propose:
opinion
1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
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And to visa: Let's be friends! Play in meadows! I know what you mean, I do come across strongly in these posts, my wording is very raw and connotates arrogance. What people seem to fail to see is that I care about local music, which is why I am even talking about it. Sure I'm not the most refined person there is. But still.
Also, I have probably on more than one occasion said stuff that I didn't mean through typing so much, and many times through walls of text things have been taken out of context or misunderstood. Which is a shame, with me typing so much.
If people dislike me personally for thinking that their music is mediocre, then well.... good for them!
Sure, it doesn't help as much as going out and physically doing something.
But let's be honest, who goes to shows of bands they dislike, and puts them down? Besides, it would mean nothing to do so, it's just your opinion, they'll say. Which is true!
And with me stating the standard is low, should I go to speakers corner and preach to the occasional 40-year old passing by? Sure, I don't help much by saying it, but as long as it gets someone thinking about it, what harm is there in that? To established bands and such, I clearly mean nothing, but I never really expected to appeal to them, seeing as their part of what I am criticizing.
This is a forum, and ultimately it is used for discussion. Whether the discussion results in nothing or something happening, that's besides the point isn't it? I'm merely using this as a medium to say what I think about the local scene.
Only reason why this was dragged out so long was because I'm busy defending myself, it's a circle, much like the scene it seems.
rottenramone: i am not speaking from a consumer pov, though it might come across that way. i love music, and i do not think that cd sales = quality of band. but really, there are so many local musicians, i'm pretty sure that most of them, especially the younger ones are pretty skeptical about local bands. obviously not those who have gotten bigger.
More importantly.
I never expected to make a difference through this, forums are meant for discussion, and you guys can't seem to stand anyone who has an opinion that you don't agree with! Just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make me ignorant.
Also, I have probably on more than one occasion said stuff that I didn't mean through typing so much, and many times through walls of text things have been taken out of context or misunderstood. Which is a shame, with me typing so much.
If people dislike me personally for thinking that their music is mediocre, then well.... good for them!
Sure, it doesn't help as much as going out and physically doing something.
But let's be honest, who goes to shows of bands they dislike, and puts them down? Besides, it would mean nothing to do so, it's just your opinion, they'll say. Which is true!
And with me stating the standard is low, should I go to speakers corner and preach to the occasional 40-year old passing by? Sure, I don't help much by saying it, but as long as it gets someone thinking about it, what harm is there in that? To established bands and such, I clearly mean nothing, but I never really expected to appeal to them, seeing as their part of what I am criticizing.
This is a forum, and ultimately it is used for discussion. Whether the discussion results in nothing or something happening, that's besides the point isn't it? I'm merely using this as a medium to say what I think about the local scene.
Only reason why this was dragged out so long was because I'm busy defending myself, it's a circle, much like the scene it seems.
rottenramone: i am not speaking from a consumer pov, though it might come across that way. i love music, and i do not think that cd sales = quality of band. but really, there are so many local musicians, i'm pretty sure that most of them, especially the younger ones are pretty skeptical about local bands. obviously not those who have gotten bigger.
More importantly.
I never expected to make a difference through this, forums are meant for discussion, and you guys can't seem to stand anyone who has an opinion that you don't agree with! Just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make me ignorant.
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Harsh criticism is usually hard to take. Do band musicians in Singapore want to be artists or do they just want to be in a band? If they consider themselves artists, well, there are good and bad artists.
It is not possible to be fully objective and hence everyone's views are, in all nakedness, subjective.
At the heart of it, Blank is well-meaning. His harshness, I believe, stems from frustration at the standard of the scene. He is straightforward, and I agree with many of his points, even his specific opinions about some local bands. If these bands can take such criticisms honestly, they stand to become good artists. If they do not see the need to, they remain as mere bands.
The local scene needs stimulation and independent thought, instead of regurgitation from aplenty clone bands (to borrow the term ’clone bands’ from a musician from a well-known local band who is releasing a solo album soon). It is truly not necessary for anyone to be successful to criticise, as a few others have already mentioned in this thread. Blank’s thoughts are commendable because, if he were to compose music, one can fairly expect that he will not settle for anything less than fresh, original, provocative, or inspiring, as opposed to imitative, regurgitating, wannabe, or simply subpar.
The probable problem with the local scene is that there is a lack of people like him with independent thought who can also compose music. Instead, there are plenty of people who learn the instruments, can produce flashy guitar solos based on standard famous solos they learnt, and focus on wanting to be in a band instead of artistry and originality in music. This refers to bands all around Singapore – in various band competitions – not just the known bands that many have already mentioned in this thread.
Many local bands, whether they have been named in this thread or not, compose songs that sound functional instead of artistic or evocative (to borrow ‘evocative’ from the same musician again). By functional, it is in the sense that, if they do not write any songs, they would merely be a cover band. That means their songs are, at best, uninspiring. That means there is not true artistic value that is contributed to the scene.
Somebody mentioned Nirvana. Did Kurt Cobain foresee that their music would change the course of rock ‘n’ roll (as Dave Grohl once cited while inebriated) when he was writing the songs? No, I doubt so, and because he became disillusioned at their own success. But I dare guess that he wanted the group to be artists, and not just another band. Look at how Red Hot Chili Peppers broke out in the early 90s. John Frusciante is deeply influenced by Jimi Hendrix, and even if you can hear traces of Hendrix’s influence on his guitar-playing, Chili Peppers have their own signature sound. Look at the effect Rage Against The Machine produced with their own brand of rock and rap, made all the more interesting with Tom Morello’s signature guitar-playing and the rhythmic groove that underlies their tracks. Were there any bands like them before they came around? These are people who have independent thought and who raised the bar with true artistic value.
Hence, for the matter of the local scene being generic (as was mentioned by the thread starter), it is important for the players in it to hold independent thought and focus on artistic value, instead of merely wanting to be in a band. Somebody made a good point earlier in this thread when he suggested that people here ‘just [have] generally boring mediocre taste in music’ and that ‘all flows from there’. Many people here should discover music other than that dished out by the local media. We should really look at what is negative about local bands and avoid these negative points for ourselves. We should strive to be original, focus on artistry, and produce signature sounds or styles that do not easily remind the audience of any other well-known bands. Criticisms should be provided in good spirit and the bands in question should keep an open mind and really reflect on what they might be doing negatively. It really does not help if people in general are too willing to accept lower standards or mediocrity. But perhaps a little of that acceptance at this moment in our scene is necessary while, hopefully, more inspiring and original bands capable of stimulating the scene emerge. Right now, it is probably the case that there are more mediocre ‘clone bands’ than there are inspiring and original bands.
The scene is made up of bands, and bands are made up of individuals. Hence it starts with the individual and it is important for the individual to focus on true artistic value for the scene to improve.
This is not a research paper or a book and hence some points might be general. But it has been written in good faith.
It is not possible to be fully objective and hence everyone's views are, in all nakedness, subjective.
At the heart of it, Blank is well-meaning. His harshness, I believe, stems from frustration at the standard of the scene. He is straightforward, and I agree with many of his points, even his specific opinions about some local bands. If these bands can take such criticisms honestly, they stand to become good artists. If they do not see the need to, they remain as mere bands.
The local scene needs stimulation and independent thought, instead of regurgitation from aplenty clone bands (to borrow the term ’clone bands’ from a musician from a well-known local band who is releasing a solo album soon). It is truly not necessary for anyone to be successful to criticise, as a few others have already mentioned in this thread. Blank’s thoughts are commendable because, if he were to compose music, one can fairly expect that he will not settle for anything less than fresh, original, provocative, or inspiring, as opposed to imitative, regurgitating, wannabe, or simply subpar.
The probable problem with the local scene is that there is a lack of people like him with independent thought who can also compose music. Instead, there are plenty of people who learn the instruments, can produce flashy guitar solos based on standard famous solos they learnt, and focus on wanting to be in a band instead of artistry and originality in music. This refers to bands all around Singapore – in various band competitions – not just the known bands that many have already mentioned in this thread.
Many local bands, whether they have been named in this thread or not, compose songs that sound functional instead of artistic or evocative (to borrow ‘evocative’ from the same musician again). By functional, it is in the sense that, if they do not write any songs, they would merely be a cover band. That means their songs are, at best, uninspiring. That means there is not true artistic value that is contributed to the scene.
Somebody mentioned Nirvana. Did Kurt Cobain foresee that their music would change the course of rock ‘n’ roll (as Dave Grohl once cited while inebriated) when he was writing the songs? No, I doubt so, and because he became disillusioned at their own success. But I dare guess that he wanted the group to be artists, and not just another band. Look at how Red Hot Chili Peppers broke out in the early 90s. John Frusciante is deeply influenced by Jimi Hendrix, and even if you can hear traces of Hendrix’s influence on his guitar-playing, Chili Peppers have their own signature sound. Look at the effect Rage Against The Machine produced with their own brand of rock and rap, made all the more interesting with Tom Morello’s signature guitar-playing and the rhythmic groove that underlies their tracks. Were there any bands like them before they came around? These are people who have independent thought and who raised the bar with true artistic value.
Hence, for the matter of the local scene being generic (as was mentioned by the thread starter), it is important for the players in it to hold independent thought and focus on artistic value, instead of merely wanting to be in a band. Somebody made a good point earlier in this thread when he suggested that people here ‘just [have] generally boring mediocre taste in music’ and that ‘all flows from there’. Many people here should discover music other than that dished out by the local media. We should really look at what is negative about local bands and avoid these negative points for ourselves. We should strive to be original, focus on artistry, and produce signature sounds or styles that do not easily remind the audience of any other well-known bands. Criticisms should be provided in good spirit and the bands in question should keep an open mind and really reflect on what they might be doing negatively. It really does not help if people in general are too willing to accept lower standards or mediocrity. But perhaps a little of that acceptance at this moment in our scene is necessary while, hopefully, more inspiring and original bands capable of stimulating the scene emerge. Right now, it is probably the case that there are more mediocre ‘clone bands’ than there are inspiring and original bands.
The scene is made up of bands, and bands are made up of individuals. Hence it starts with the individual and it is important for the individual to focus on true artistic value for the scene to improve.
This is not a research paper or a book and hence some points might be general. But it has been written in good faith.
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Yes. Nobody does have to care! I'm not being sarcastic, when did I ever say anyone had to care? I just merely put my opinion out there, where people can read it. I've been repeating this several times. Sure people can judge, that's okay, but they mostly seem to be judging my personality, as opposed to, you know, the opinion I have. Which I find to be rather stupid actually.
Self-important? That's not true, I'm just another normal person, who god forbid, has an opinion that you don't agree with!
ok flamers if you're going to flame me, please respond to this at least, no malice intended. really please just answer it.
daryl said this earlier:
compared to what the international scene has to offer, singapore's standard of music is bad. dodge this bullet for me to see. dodge it.
daryl said this earlier:
compared to what the international scene has to offer, singapore's standard of music is bad. dodge this bullet for me to see. dodge it.
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tim098
New member
This thread has gone a completely different direction from what it was going at first man.
We speak and complain of the scene so fervently. I ask u, how many of us don't have non-music related jobs or aren't studying something off the field of music? I'd say a handful, literally. If people don't even intend to seriously pursue music and push the scene, and by that I don't mean the intention or the talk, I mean the real action. Monetary, time and effort investment. If people don't do this, how the bloody hell you expect this "scene" of ours to improve??
Half the people here are truly passionate about music. Out of these, probably 1 to a most 10% seriously pursue music as a career. Talk and talk and bicker and talk about the scene. Please lah such a fundamental thing isn't there and yet all of us expect so much of this "scene". And its not like this is the only problem, there's so many more problems/rooms screaming for improvement, some of which were discussed before this thread went ridiculously off-topic.
My point? Don't expect so much of the scene. So many of us honestly wish well for the music scene here to improve. I personally wish it but I don't see it happening within the next 5 years. But wishing well and talking so much really doesn't change anything. Sure thoughts are provoked, minds are stirred. We argue and more points are born. But in the end, practically NO ONE executes them. So don't expect so much.
We speak and complain of the scene so fervently. I ask u, how many of us don't have non-music related jobs or aren't studying something off the field of music? I'd say a handful, literally. If people don't even intend to seriously pursue music and push the scene, and by that I don't mean the intention or the talk, I mean the real action. Monetary, time and effort investment. If people don't do this, how the bloody hell you expect this "scene" of ours to improve??
Half the people here are truly passionate about music. Out of these, probably 1 to a most 10% seriously pursue music as a career. Talk and talk and bicker and talk about the scene. Please lah such a fundamental thing isn't there and yet all of us expect so much of this "scene". And its not like this is the only problem, there's so many more problems/rooms screaming for improvement, some of which were discussed before this thread went ridiculously off-topic.
My point? Don't expect so much of the scene. So many of us honestly wish well for the music scene here to improve. I personally wish it but I don't see it happening within the next 5 years. But wishing well and talking so much really doesn't change anything. Sure thoughts are provoked, minds are stirred. We argue and more points are born. But in the end, practically NO ONE executes them. So don't expect so much.
daryl
New member
pointless assumption there. i feel as the more we discuss, the more likely it is for the people involved in or reading the discussion to actually do something, as we are stirred, aren't we.
we're placing expectations on the future, not the present.
unless we all end up disillusioned and pessimistic as hell. let's not end up like that.
tim098
New member
Heh what i personally feel is that people eventually still won't do shit.
But if more than just one or two groups of people actually do then maybe there would be a way for this "scene" of ours to shed its inverted commas and become an actual music scene.
Kinda like from :?: to
visa
New member
why should it even be dodged? I say we take the bullet, head on. There was a time where our standard of living was bad, by international standards. No bullet dodging there. There was a time where our standard of education was bad, by international standards. No bullet dodging there either.
We have made progress since, and we will make progress with this as well. We can achieve anything if we work together and set our minds to it.
tim098
New member
Please realise I am stating my own opinion and do not try and blowtorch me, people. Visa do u honestly see us "working together and setting our minds to it"?
Standard of living, education, economy, they are practical necessities. Is the music industry a necessity here? Or should I say, is a booming music industry a necessity here? U should be able to tell where im headed from there.
This is exactly why I believe, NOT HOPE, that nothing much is gonna change. Whoo ok its an ungodly hour.
Uh. I think the bullet hit you right in the face.
Whether you realize it or not, you've just admitted that the music here is bad.
And what I've been posting for the past... 22 pages, is basically that. In addition, I have also talked about progress, I never said we are doomed to mediocre music.
daryl
New member
you have your point. but then again, with singapore past it's developing nation stage, we have seen singapore opening up to the arts scene rapidly. so there's hope in my opinion. there is a growing emphasis on the need of culture as opposed to just being prosperous
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