Music store etiquette

[Whitestrat]

2. Customer walks in and bought a guitar, gets home and its broken, but can't come back until next week because he has to fly for a meeting. gets back return to store to complain, then store owner says they only replace within 7 days. there is nothing a customer can do about it.

There's something called the telephone. Furthermore, the guitar is ususally tested in the store. There's no excuse for the buyer to claim that the store sold him a broken product, especially where testing is available. If you don't test, you're being foolish.

 

[lordie]

That sort of management would only work for large stores that stock up on a lot of the same guitar. Also do note that a display guitar might not sound the same as the same one coming straight from the box. Not every customer has the mindset that every guitar sounds/feels the same.

kindly explained why it will work for large stores and not for small one? overhead? cost? whine factor? SOP is a SOP. Every store got different SOP and how they mitigate and factor damage goods and what not its is all boil to their business model and how the did they financial modeling.

for sure every guitar will have different feel, even tho same make and model. but its up to the store policy to let them try fresh out of the box guitar or those hanging. i remember long time ago, personal experience,i will try the one hanging and when purchasing ask for a new one. *grinz*, inspect, tune, play, inspect again ask abt warranty, and send for set-up.

so what type of management works for small stores? see no touch?

 

[Whitestrat]

To TS and any shop owners, I think it pays for you guys to have a Standards of Procedures (SOP) for handling customer complaints and other issues.

SOPs are actually Standard Operating Procedures. They are usually created when you have a large number of staff, and it becomes impractical to have a free-for-all management style. In smaller enterprises, these procedures are usually not fixed, and are usually quite fluid. Mainly because the number of staff are small, you are able to creatively change the process to suit the situation. In a larger organisation, where such freedom becomes dangerous, SOPs are useful in handling staff. Not customers. They are guidelines (and in some cases, rules) for staff to follow to perform their task.

By establishing SOPs within a small organisation, you are adding unnecessary layers of red tape that will prohibit flexibility. SOPs are not necessarily applicable in every aspect.

As to the customer being King, don't forget that the other person on the other side of the counter is also human. How much abuse can you take? There are customers who are abusive, and those who take advantage that you are the staff (I call these "vultures"), and think that they can walk all over you.

There is no such thing as a rule of thumb where "Customer Is King". If the store owner feels that it is in better interest for them to lose that customer, then so be it. And these scenarios exist every day. There are people out there who are simply not worth entertaining.

so what type of management works for small stores? see no touch?

See my post above. Small store management usually is a lot more flexible. Furthermore, SOPs are usually more for operational matters. Logistics, Inventory, Accounts, etc etc.

What you are talking about, are customer service guidelines.

But guidelines or not, when it's a small operation, the proprietor is there to decide on the spot. Why would you need guidelines on this?

I find something odd here. The TS posted something on ettiquette. Yet, the almost immediate responses are defensive, borderline accusational and blame-throwing. The question still begs: who bears responsibility? What happened to simple "stand-up-and-face-it-like-a-man" responsibility? What happened to plain old "respect for other people's property"? Aren't these things that everyone learns from their fathers and mothers? Did our parents raise cowards and responsiblity shirkers?

I have personally on the rare occasion added some very minor damage to guitars. Even at Swee Lee. I have taken that guitar, though no one was watching me, to a staff (usually the senior ones) and explained the damage I caused. They assess it, and usually let me off. I am prepared to pay for any damage I caused. Why? Because I CAUSED IT. Why run? Why shirk responsibility? It's not a matter of rules here. It's a matter of what's ethically right.

Also, if you know you clearly cannot afford to pay for damage, regardless of the testing guidelines of the store, why try?

Would you go and lift up the skirt of a pretty girl knowing you cannot afford to bear the consequences?

 

[optisailor2002]

Would you go and lift up the skirt of a pretty girl knowing you cannot afford to bear the consequences?

some people do it for the thrills?

 

[Whitestrat]

some people do it for the thrills?

Agreed... But does that make it right?

 

[optisailor2002]

Agreed... But does that make it right?

well, lots of things people do just for thrills are never right.

like how some rich kids like stealing/shoplifting just for the thrills. want to steal cheap things cos its exciting not cos of necessity. heck, when has stealing been for necessity anyway.

sorry, i digress haha.

 

[Morlock]

These are both entirely the fault of the customer. L2research and L2check.

what kind of logic is that? you get scammed and its your fault? its like saying, I got raped because I didn't do a background check on my date. isn't it right that the sales person should have been more honest in the first place? doing research is a pro-active action of a customer to prevent him from being scammed, it is not a responsibility. it is however the responsibility of the sale people to give the correct information.

and you can only do as much research, you cannot know everything right away. heck I even know pros getting scammed at buying a fake guitar. no amount of reseach can protect you 100%

What happened to simple "stand-up-and-face-it-like-a-man"

Exactly what I will tell a store owner


Ok cut to the chase here is my main and last point:

I have owned 4 businesses in the past, so I know how it feels to deal with rotten customers. there are customers who shout at you, customers who will vandalize, customers who will be good but trying to scheme behind your back and customers with the "Victim" sydrome hehe (ooo i hate hate them lol). and I empathize with all store owners. it is really hard to go to work everyday knowing you have to deal with them again. (Thats why I stopped doing business couple of years ago lol.). I know it is hard but it is the perils of doing business, you deal with so many people, and you cannot expect all of them to be good citizens.

And I know store owners have to deal with all these problems ,bad\unreasonable customers, mischievous customers, customer who do not follow instructions on a day to day basis but at the end of the day still have to make a living for family to eat and that is the fact of life and the profession you have chosen. you deal with hundreds of customers, there is always bound to have a bad one, only problem is you can't chose your customers. dont let then 1 bad customer ruin your day and then take out your frustrations to the rest of your customers, as I believe there are more good customers than bad.

Lastly, You chose to be a businessman, you chose to open a guitar store. you should know that all businesses incure losses and you have to cover for them. you should also know that when opening a store you will encounter a bunch load of people. different races, cultures, age etc. some will be a headache some will be a blessing. like what whitestrat said "stand-up-and-face-it-like-a-man"

 

[lordie]

...The question still begs: who bears responsibility? What happened to simple "stand-up-and-face-it-like-a-man" responsibility? What happened to plain old "respect for other people's property"? Aren't these things that everyone learns from their fathers and mothers? Did our parents raise cowards and responsiblity shirkers?

....

and the answer is the shopkeeper and shopowner bears the responsibility. they have the empowerement to set-up sales guidelines, they are empowered to hit guitars behind glass case, they are also able to lock guitars so that folks dunt take off the hangar withour store guidelines, they are empowered to have more browsing space, etc..etc...

they are able to do a million and 1 things. why whine abt ettiquette? some good, some bad, some fondlers and some molesters. its just facts and fact of running a business.

lift up a skirt no kick, i would rather spank that ass!

 

[Vocalistman]

wow this whole thing between owners and customers just got so complicated. I seriously feel and understand what the shop-owners has to go through, but at the same time too, understand the need of freedom of the customers to exercise their rights.

Why don't keep things simple. Put up a notice in front of the shop "ONLY RESPONSIBLE CUSTOMERS ALLOWED".. lol

Anyway, yes, SOP creates unnecessary red-tape for small stores. But they in the first place are only guidelines, so that staff won't get emotionally hindered. The main reason is to ensure that staff knows what to do, and do next, when problem arrives - instead of "creatively" try to solve a problem (which may escalate as I mentioned earlier). And yes SOP is applicable to every business sectors small or huge, including services. Probably you just haven't seen them yet.

 

[seekz]

Sorry guys I don't want to be a part of this anymore. Unsubscribe...
Just wanted to find out if customers are liable to pay if they break anything.

By the way I'm on the customer is king side of the fence.

 

[lordie]

some customers are great and some are just retarded ,its a fact of life. but some ppl still dun understand that concept.

 

[ymmak]

using cars as an analogy is shit. cars and guitars are totally different things. for one the ownership of a car is not as easily transferrable as that of a car. alot of legal shit involved. nobody even owns a car, part of every car is owned by the government.

secondly when you crash your car you are causing harm to the public. if you langgar a lamp post you are damaging public property. if you make yourself a nuisance on public roads you are incurring a cost to society. it becomes a completely different matter because of all the external implications.

if u damage a guitar nobody is gonna give a damn except the person who owns the guitar, which is the shop. a guitar does not fall under some guitar law.

u cant just conveniently draw comparisons based on the similarities and ignore the differences which may prove to be significant. u wanna compare, compare everything, if not it will be useless.

The discussion on test driving does veer a little off course, but it isnt as "shitty" as you have incorrectly described.

The test driving discussion was discussed, not to draw a parallel between guitar testing and car testing. Rather, it was brought up so that a comparison can be made. And as it turns out (thanks to responses from whee, whitestrats, morlocks and many others), there are stark differences between the handling property damages in a guitar store and a car shop. And from the responses of those who contributed, it appears that the guitar store has very minimal protection or insurance for property damages by customers, and guitar stores appear to have lower chances of getting any form of compensation from customers.

Of coz, as suggested by whee and whitestrat, the guitar shop can take up property insurance, but that will add to the consumers' cost, and we do not want that, do we?

As highlighted in my previous post, the message I wish to convey is that the only win-win scenario is when nobody breaks any thing. This is obvious, but this also highlights the importance of prevention or minimizing property damages, which many of us has failed to see. As mentioned earlier, those "please handle with care" or "please ask for assistance when testing the guitar" are helpful reminders that are useful in minimizing damages, and we as customers ought to comply. Yes, we as customers do complain about some stores with very draconian rules, but hey, if you were to break any thing, will you step up and bear the responsibilities? Morally, we should, but I believe most rationale person will choose to "siam" if he/she can siam.

 

[ymmak]

Would you go and lift up the skirt of a pretty girl knowing you cannot afford to bear the consequences?

If there is no consequences, will you do it?

 

[Stringcast]

I once worked in Swee Lee Bras Basah before. I totally agree with you on the part that some customers should change their attitude and be a good customer. For other things else, i think you're just making a fool out of yourself. A sales representatives should be sales and customer orientated. I've been to almost all the major music store in Singapore. I will want to visit and buy from a sales person who is friendly and not arrogant. You too should change your mindset and attitude to be a better sales person.

 

[ymmak]

I once worked in Swee Lee Bras Basah before. I totally agree with you on the part that some customers should change their attitude and be a good customer. For other things else, i think you're just making a fool out of yourself. A sales representatives should be sales and customer orientated. I've been to almost all the major music store in Singapore. I will want to visit and buy from a sales person who is friendly and not arrogant. You too should change your mindset and attitude to be a better sales person.

Hi stringcast, is your post refering to me? If you are, then perhaps you have not read my earlier post about how the "customer is king" attitude often lead to better sales and higher customer lifetime value. Please read all most posts in this thread in their entirety. I personally do prefer to patronise stores with good services, however if the staffs offer bad services, I will not take it to heart.

BTW, by urging customers to be good customers, doesnt mean that sales people can have the liberty to be bad sales people, neither does it mean that unfriendly and proud sales people with bad services should be tolerated. I do not know how you have made such an association in regards to my post. If you think that my approach to pitching a sale is to appear stuck-up and unfriendly, then you must be mistaken.

 

[Whitestrat]

Anyway, yes, SOP creates unnecessary red-tape for small stores. But they in the first place are only guidelines, so that staff won't get emotionally hindered. The main reason is to ensure that staff knows what to do, and do next, when problem arrives - instead of "creatively" try to solve a problem (which may escalate as I mentioned earlier). And yes SOP is applicable to every business sectors small or huge, including services. Probably you just haven't seen them yet.

You have no clue what I've seen or not seen. SOPs are NOT guidelines. There is a reason as to why they exist. And the reason you posted is not it.

 

[Stringcast]

Hi stringcast, is your post refering to me? If you are, then perhaps you have not read my earlier post about how the "customer is king" attitude often lead to better sales and higher customer lifetime value. Please read all most posts in this thread in their entirety. I personally do prefer to patronise stores with good services, however if the staffs offer bad services, I will not take it to heart.

BTW, by urging customers to be good customers, doesnt mean that sales people can have the liberty to be bad sales people, neither does it mean that unfriendly and proud sales people with bad services should be tolerated. I do not know how you have made such an association in regards to my post. If you think that my approach to pitching a sale is to appear stuck-up and unfriendly, then you must be mistaken.

I din't know that there are so many pages for this post. I posted the previous one because i was offended by the first post. It was a response to the first post.
My point is: A sales person should be sales and customer service orientated.

 

[Vocalistman]

Lol.. This is why this whole argument is so messy and un-end-able in the first place. Stuffs get salted and peppered all over. Yes I don't have a clue whether you seen or not seen. That's why I say "probably" bro.

Opinion on customer is king differs to different people. How you want to solve a problem that occurs in a guitar shop is different from every shop owners. Some chose to kick away arrogant customers, some chose to value customer (like me, thus I have an SOP of my own), thus each shop have different policies tailored to their need.

Just open the damn shop as per normal.. lol.. If some people insist that SOP is not important then so be it. It'll be your company policy, I still go ahead with SOP anyway which fine, it's just my opinion and I tailor my own policy for my own shop. But as far as experience is concerned, just do things that you think is right so that it does not create a lose-lose situation. Because at the end of the day, the one who is making money is not them but you.

And I can rant on with why at the endest of the day, whether like it or not, customer is still the king.. but No, I shall stop here and pull myself out of this matter.. lol.. peace peace

 

[ymmak]

I din't know that there are so many pages for this post. I posted the previous one because i was offended by the first post. It was a response to the first post.
My point is: A sales person should be sales and customer service orientated.

Oh, I am really sorry if I have been too defensive. My apologies.

Anyway, I do know the TS and he is a great friend. He may not be that kind of people with the best PR skills, but he sure is helpful. Bad attitude, I dont think so, most likely he was being misunderstood.

 

[balloons]

ok,where's TS shop and whats his name? i wanna patronize his shop with my friend to buy guitars.