Long hair for school going guys petition
- Thread starter Hydrofly
- Start date
illuminationexcursion
New member
Let me just state on the outset that I am for the enforcement of short hair for boys rule.
A complete and holistic education system should arguably be designed in a way so as to provide a platform for the strive towards academic excellence (IQ if you like) as well as a suitable environment for students to acquire life skills such as social interaction (EQ if you will). Constant attacks on our education system as only being concerned with academic performance are fair. In fact I would agree that the meritocratic system together with its blatant elitism has indeed provided the impetus for the over emphasis on academic performance. Nevertheless, I would argue that school rules, such as the keeping of short hair for boys, are part of the other half of the "ideal" of a complete education.
Society values conformity. Deviant behavior is largely rejected and discriminated against or at most tolerated. Let us not be drawn into a absolutist argument on the freedom of students to don hairstyles as they please or let the argument hinge on the lack of any apparent and tangible repercussions. Also, it would be overly narrow to argue based on what Asian values have to say about hairstyles. Instead, let us appreciate the value of students learning the importance of compliance with school rules as well as the respect and deference for the social structure present in the school. Arbitrary as the rules might be, the conformity and procedural nature of it is what determines its value. It is the form and not the content of it that matters.
As an ending note, I would like to say that when I was in Secondary school and JC, I also suffered at the hands of overbearing teachers who insisted on what I then perceived as ridiculous standards of hairstyle. They have also gone to the extent of literally taking matters into their own hands by cutting student's hair themselves, equipped with nothing more than a scissor and a over zealous desire to dish out punishment. I shall pause here to condemn these acts despite my arguments for the short-hair rule because enforcement of discipline neither necessitates nor justifies shaming. Still, looking back I am able to see the value in the system despite the episodes of anger, frustration and resentment I experienced.
I do not expect most of the forum users to agree with me but I just felt like sharing my point of view after seeing the many deliberated arguments that fellow forums users have spent precious time conceiving.
A complete and holistic education system should arguably be designed in a way so as to provide a platform for the strive towards academic excellence (IQ if you like) as well as a suitable environment for students to acquire life skills such as social interaction (EQ if you will). Constant attacks on our education system as only being concerned with academic performance are fair. In fact I would agree that the meritocratic system together with its blatant elitism has indeed provided the impetus for the over emphasis on academic performance. Nevertheless, I would argue that school rules, such as the keeping of short hair for boys, are part of the other half of the "ideal" of a complete education.
Society values conformity. Deviant behavior is largely rejected and discriminated against or at most tolerated. Let us not be drawn into a absolutist argument on the freedom of students to don hairstyles as they please or let the argument hinge on the lack of any apparent and tangible repercussions. Also, it would be overly narrow to argue based on what Asian values have to say about hairstyles. Instead, let us appreciate the value of students learning the importance of compliance with school rules as well as the respect and deference for the social structure present in the school. Arbitrary as the rules might be, the conformity and procedural nature of it is what determines its value. It is the form and not the content of it that matters.
As an ending note, I would like to say that when I was in Secondary school and JC, I also suffered at the hands of overbearing teachers who insisted on what I then perceived as ridiculous standards of hairstyle. They have also gone to the extent of literally taking matters into their own hands by cutting student's hair themselves, equipped with nothing more than a scissor and a over zealous desire to dish out punishment. I shall pause here to condemn these acts despite my arguments for the short-hair rule because enforcement of discipline neither necessitates nor justifies shaming. Still, looking back I am able to see the value in the system despite the episodes of anger, frustration and resentment I experienced.
I do not expect most of the forum users to agree with me but I just felt like sharing my point of view after seeing the many deliberated arguments that fellow forums users have spent precious time conceiving.
i totally agree with illuminationexcursion. it is however not conformity that needs us to be long hair. Because, even with short hair, you can style it any way, anyhow you want it to look. It is more like giving singaporean students a neat image, not those of other countries, where students are deemed as unstudious, unintelligent, just based on having long hair.
I dont see any wrong with embracing a neat image. Imagine, you were to meet someone for the first time. hajimemashite. then, would you have a good impression should you see someone with long hair? unkempt? or smooth and combed, which to me looks horrific. I doubt you would have a good impression, unless you looking for a gangster as a friend.
the neat image is thus good for us, both to give us a neat image, and to make us global citizens, able to embrace the world and the world is just as able to embrace us; given our neat and tidy image.
PS: why long hair? Dont you know that girls dont like guys with hair equally long or longer than their hair? Unless your girl's a raphunzel(the girl with ultra long hair in fairy tales), then you hair will never be as long. let this be a motivation. short hair. boleh.
provided you have a stunt-tastic face. thanks to shredrat for pointing this out. proves how myopic i may be at times.=)
I dont see any wrong with embracing a neat image. Imagine, you were to meet someone for the first time. hajimemashite. then, would you have a good impression should you see someone with long hair? unkempt? or smooth and combed, which to me looks horrific. I doubt you would have a good impression, unless you looking for a gangster as a friend.
the neat image is thus good for us, both to give us a neat image, and to make us global citizens, able to embrace the world and the world is just as able to embrace us; given our neat and tidy image.
PS: why long hair? Dont you know that girls dont like guys with hair equally long or longer than their hair? Unless your girl's a raphunzel(the girl with ultra long hair in fairy tales), then you hair will never be as long. let this be a motivation. short hair. boleh.
provided you have a stunt-tastic face. thanks to shredrat for pointing this out. proves how myopic i may be at times.=)
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Hmm. Imo, i think more often than not people judge you by your face. And about the hair issue, its not as if most of the guys here want hair as long as girls. Well, to each his own. Some might prefer long some might prefer short, but the bottom line is that as long as it is neat, it should be accepted.
Cheers!
Cheers!
l0stwhispers
New member
illuminationexcursion: Yes, it is true that society values conformity, but I reckon the key question here is why should short hair be the norm? And again, it is true that students should learn the importance of complying with school rules, but why should boys having short hair be a school rule? I understand the need for school uniforms (to increase identification with the school, etc.) and for the flag-raising assemblies (to increase identification with the country, etc.), but short hair? If someone could explain the logic behind this rule, I'd gladly accept it and return back to my studying.
d4z3: By "other countries", which countries do you mean exactly? The school kids I see here with long hair aren't always unintelligent or always playing truant. The guitarist in my band has long hair and he wears a suit every day to work with his hair tied back in a ponytail. The first time I saw him in that, I was pretty impressed. You can have an unkempt image even with short hair. I've seen heaps of guys with short hair who look like they've never touched a comb before. Also, I'm a girl, and I don't mind if my guy has long hair or not. I've seen guys with their hair longer than their girlfriends, and their girlfriends don't seem to mind.
d4z3: By "other countries", which countries do you mean exactly? The school kids I see here with long hair aren't always unintelligent or always playing truant. The guitarist in my band has long hair and he wears a suit every day to work with his hair tied back in a ponytail. The first time I saw him in that, I was pretty impressed. You can have an unkempt image even with short hair. I've seen heaps of guys with short hair who look like they've never touched a comb before. Also, I'm a girl, and I don't mind if my guy has long hair or not. I've seen guys with their hair longer than their girlfriends, and their girlfriends don't seem to mind.
illuminationexcursion
New member
In response to your ultimate question of "Why should the norm be short hair?", I shall make no attempts to provide an answer simply because I cannot. It could be an accepted social convention or simply an arbitrary decision from a person in power at the top of the chain of command. I would even go as far as to concede that there could be absolutely no logical rational reason behind it. This is precisely the reason why I asserted, if I may quote my earlier post, that:
"Let us not be drawn into a absolutist argument on the freedom of students to don hairstyles as they please or let the argument hinge on the lack of any apparent and tangible repercussions."
I thank you for mentioning the examples of uniform and flag raising ceremony. Flag raising is a symbol of patriotism and allegiance to the country. School uniform promotes identification with a particular school or school spirit. These two practices have a practical and rational justification. Allow me to call this the justificatory purpose. But over and above , there is an additional purpose of it which is conformity - the recognition and deference to a system of rules. This I would call the transcending purpose.
My argument is that in coming to a conclusion, the transcending purpose should be accorded more weight than the justificatory purpose. That is all I claim. It is perfectly legitimate for you to insist on the justificatory purpose because that is what you honestly believe to be of greater significance and I applaud you for standing your ground.
l0stwhispers
New member
I'm not arguing that we shouldn't recognise or obey a system of rules. But like what you said, if the system of rules has no substantial logic behind it, I don't see the reason for obeying them. People should not just adhere to rules because they're set in place. I'm proposing the idea of confronting the rules, understanding them, before accepting them completely. If it was made a rule to jump off a building after you've forgotten to do the laundry, should we all just follow it? 
another_storyteller
New member
come guys..grow up..a school is a place where students like yourselves are nurtured to become more valuable assets to society. we live in a system that values self discipline above all else. be patient my young friend. you will earn ur time after u have managed to successfully complete ur basic, secondary and tertiary studies(if ure in jc of course). and if u manage to enter uni, poly etc, KEEP ALL THE HAIR U WANT.
Bearily
New member
What is this Thread about?
'A Petition For Men To Be Able To Keep Long Hair'
The views of many people here
1.Why can't we have long hair like Girls,International Students,Students who study in other countries?
2.Why must we be enforced to keep the 'Appropriate Hairstyle the Learning Institution/Company/Army wants?'
3.Where are the rights? Why must be we different from Women?
These are the points that are factored in, that led to the start of this petition.
The IS NOT whether we can keep long hair or not. Seriously. The problem is The Petition Would NEVER, EVER WORK.
Why? Why won't it work?
School's Views
-School is a place for higher learning. Not a place to play around a make a mess out of things.
Army's Views
-Army is where disciplined is enforced. Its not a holiday or playground. Ground Rules must be set.
-Camping,training,PT is all very vigorous. A lot of sweat and dirt. A person who has short hair would be more hygienic than someone with long hair. Why? Lice may be in the long guy's hair.Dirt would be trapped.
Business World Views
-Having short hair would look more presentable than a person with long hair. Would you rather do business with someone who looks Jimi Hendrix or Bill Gates.
Medical Point of View
-Doctors must not have long hair. Because if during an operation, if the doctor's hair fall into the open wound, infection may happen. It is not hygienic.
Yes. We all want long hair. I want it too. But, we live in the 21st century. Not in the 1950s-70s where Rock N' Roll, Hippies or Disco were the way of life.
We have to accept the fact. This is Singapore. Government calls the shots. We have no say. We are not like America where everything is free.
Somethings can't be done. We have to move on.
bear
'A Petition For Men To Be Able To Keep Long Hair'
The views of many people here
1.Why can't we have long hair like Girls,International Students,Students who study in other countries?
2.Why must we be enforced to keep the 'Appropriate Hairstyle the Learning Institution/Company/Army wants?'
3.Where are the rights? Why must be we different from Women?
These are the points that are factored in, that led to the start of this petition.
The IS NOT whether we can keep long hair or not. Seriously. The problem is The Petition Would NEVER, EVER WORK.
Why? Why won't it work?
School's Views
-School is a place for higher learning. Not a place to play around a make a mess out of things.
Army's Views
-Army is where disciplined is enforced. Its not a holiday or playground. Ground Rules must be set.
-Camping,training,PT is all very vigorous. A lot of sweat and dirt. A person who has short hair would be more hygienic than someone with long hair. Why? Lice may be in the long guy's hair.Dirt would be trapped.
Business World Views
-Having short hair would look more presentable than a person with long hair. Would you rather do business with someone who looks Jimi Hendrix or Bill Gates.
Medical Point of View
-Doctors must not have long hair. Because if during an operation, if the doctor's hair fall into the open wound, infection may happen. It is not hygienic.
Yes. We all want long hair. I want it too. But, we live in the 21st century. Not in the 1950s-70s where Rock N' Roll, Hippies or Disco were the way of life.
We have to accept the fact. This is Singapore. Government calls the shots. We have no say. We are not like America where everything is free.
Somethings can't be done. We have to move on.
bear
Yea, that's why I'm EXPORTING my valuable skills to another society, I believe I can vote with a simple change of citizenship.
unrelated:
To tell all of you the truth, do you know why Singaporeans overseas come scurrying back so quickly? It's not because other societies reject them or what, it's because they love to poke their noses into other's business, be self-righteous and try to play by the rules. Singaporeans NEED to grow up, if you play by the rules, prepare to be left by the wayside. It's a rat race out there, either you step on people, or people will step on you, on the ladder to greatness, if you don't see people as rungs, you won't have no ladder.
I would like to ask why should any purpose other than the justificatory purpose be considered? After all, the 21st century was built on logical and rational thought processes. Transcending purpose should thus be annulled.
A system of rules should not be restrictive, it should allow the individual to express himself, individualism is the celebration of human intellect, collectivism is the celebration of a PERSON's intellect. If I agreed to follow a restrictive and undoubtedly asinine system of rules, I would not only be insulting my intelligence, I would be creating an environment where oppression becomes the norm.
l0stwhispers
New member
XLayaR: I don't mean any personal offence here, but this kind of mentality is precisely why oppression is the norm in this country. Singaporeans rarely ever stand up for themselves and say "look, we want this, this, this and this, and if you don't give it to us, we'll do this, this, this and this". It's always "obey the government rules, stay out of trouble".
Exactly what I am trying to change, by breaking the chains that hold me down, I am sending a message that I am not about to be cowed by the walls of repression, if everybody did the same, we CAN bring about change, we CAN change the norm. I'm not saying it has to be as bloody as the French Revolution (though I secretly want some blood to flow, the blood of the conservatives), but we can vote with informed choices, informed decisions. I am voting already, I have made the decision to leave this country, honestly speaking, no matter how much I support this petition, no matter the efforts of the true heroes of the free world make, Asian values will still stay in the minds of most Asians, it will be hard to banish these misguided beliefs into the realm of history. Therefore, I believe that I am perfectly justified in leaving my ( soon to be former) countrymen behind to wallow in self pity.
Sorry bro, but this makes you sound so much more cowardly. If you really want something to change, stay and fight. What makes you think I'll be wallowing in self-pity? I'm ready to fight all my life right here. In Singapore. But please, can the weatherman make Singapore colder or something?
Oh, and I disagree with conformity. Conformity is good to some extent but in my opinion, when rules turn grey, conformity should never be encouraged or allowed because the lack of questioning and only the desire to follow will just make you oblivious to whatever that is happening around you. Conformity should not be justified with the plain notion that rules are there to create/run a better and coherent society. I believe rules guide but not all rules are substantial or logical. The lack of reasoning behind some rules are mind-boggling and I find it amazing and incredulous that there are actually people following some rules blindly. People should have a choice over conformity. They have to see what's right and wrong for themselves. If they actually lack the maturity to see what's right and wrong for themselves, I think the world will come to a still soon. Besides, men create the rules and actually expect fellow humans to adhere to the rules they have laid down. What authority does a man actually have over a fellow man?
By the way, meekahsoh, which school are you from?
luxen-ilyich
New member
In this one has lost oneself in the most satisfying arguments, but with this no change will ever be seen.
Change is to be effected, not thought of and presented.
Change is to be effected, not thought of and presented.
hifi_killer
New member
I think , using cultural/ideological differences to justify migration is really really myopic. You are not exactly a political dissident.
If you cant even adapt to the local culture, chances are you will be worse off trying to adapt to an alien culture.
blind persistence is just as bad.
change is inevitable and inherent of all societies.
the question is whether you should tamper with the existing system or should you let the forces of society takes its natural course.
If you cant even adapt to the local culture, chances are you will be worse off trying to adapt to an alien culture.
blind persistence is just as bad.
change is inevitable and inherent of all societies.
the question is whether you should tamper with the existing system or should you let the forces of society takes its natural course.
illuminationexcursion
New member
To Hydrofly
I have a few questions for you.
1. How old are you and have you completed your NS?
2. Why are you fervently defending the petition and its cause when you have already decided to abandon this country for greener pastures that you seek?
3. You said: "Asian values will still stay in the minds of most Asians, it will be hard to banish these misguided beliefs into the realm of history." Is that a personal belief or is that a substantiated claim?
4. What is so misguided about Asian beliefs?
5. You said: "Yea, that's why I'm EXPORTING my valuable skills to another society, I believe I can vote with a simple change of citizenship." Could you enlighten us as to exactly what you mean by valuable.
To empihsrow,
Yes absolutism is never good. Conformity and compliance should always be tampered with some common sense.
You said: "Conformity is good to some extent but in my opinion, when rules turn grey, conformity should never be encouraged or allowed because the lack of questioning and only the desire to follow will just make you oblivious to whatever that is happening around you."
I agree but I warn of the subjective nature of "grey". Drawing this discussion back to the issue of short hair for boys rule, I don't see the "gray" in the rule that warrants our refusal of compliance.
You said: "Besides, men create the rules and actually expect fellow humans to adhere to the rules they have laid down. What authority does a man actually have over a fellow man?"
Its called political position. There are proper channels and pathways towards obtaining political power. However, with this I wish to stress that I do not concede to Hydrofly's ridiculous theory about how the short hair for boys rule is an exemplification of "oppression of the politically unempowered".
I have a few questions for you.
1. How old are you and have you completed your NS?
2. Why are you fervently defending the petition and its cause when you have already decided to abandon this country for greener pastures that you seek?
3. You said: "Asian values will still stay in the minds of most Asians, it will be hard to banish these misguided beliefs into the realm of history." Is that a personal belief or is that a substantiated claim?
4. What is so misguided about Asian beliefs?
5. You said: "Yea, that's why I'm EXPORTING my valuable skills to another society, I believe I can vote with a simple change of citizenship." Could you enlighten us as to exactly what you mean by valuable.
To empihsrow,
Yes absolutism is never good. Conformity and compliance should always be tampered with some common sense.
You said: "Conformity is good to some extent but in my opinion, when rules turn grey, conformity should never be encouraged or allowed because the lack of questioning and only the desire to follow will just make you oblivious to whatever that is happening around you."
I agree but I warn of the subjective nature of "grey". Drawing this discussion back to the issue of short hair for boys rule, I don't see the "gray" in the rule that warrants our refusal of compliance.
You said: "Besides, men create the rules and actually expect fellow humans to adhere to the rules they have laid down. What authority does a man actually have over a fellow man?"
Its called political position. There are proper channels and pathways towards obtaining political power. However, with this I wish to stress that I do not concede to Hydrofly's ridiculous theory about how the short hair for boys rule is an exemplification of "oppression of the politically unempowered".
oh ho, now the fun starts again.
1. 17, going into NS next year.
2. I didn't write the petition, but I am defending it because it (rather crudely) supports the stand which I have taken up, around say, when I was 12.
3. I think it is very much a personal belief for now as I do not have the resources to fully conduct a survey across all levels of society, if we were to take a stratified sample from all levels of Asian societies, we would find them much more conservative than we would like to think. Remember, conservatism is a relative term.
4. It condones the act of suppressing the individual. Remember, individuality is the celebration of the human intellect, collectivism is the direct opposite, it kills the beauty of the human mind.
5. Well, I'm not exactly stupid, in fact, as part of the JC population, I am part of what the local government views as "the smarter lot" (this view is nothing short of myopic and will only serve to alienate those who cannot succeed in the local system). I am someone who works hard, if it is something I enjoy doing, for example, guitar, I'm sure some of you have asked how I got so fast in such a short time. I know myself better than anyone else because I spend my free time conducting thought experiments with myself. I have set a goal for myself, to graduate with first class honours in Architecture, when I get a hold of that, I would be considered 'talent' to the Singapore government. Therefore, I am thus exporting my valuable skills.
=empihshrow
I don't think so, by shoving myself out of Singapore, I'm moving out of my comfort zone, so therefore, it is not being a coward. I am not willing to fight for people undeserving of it, like I said, I'd gladly serve on the front line in Iraq and get my reconstruction surgery on my knee, if it's in service of the free world. Look around you, from what I see, there are just far too many incorrigible people around in Singapore.
=hifi_killer
I have already adapted to the 'alien' culture, indeed, I have alienated myself from most of my schoolmates by doing so (not that their going to be of any use to me). I feel far more comfortable hanging around liberals, I assure you.