Keyboard questions...(Organ -> keyboard?)

B

bluelite

New member
Well..i have some questions that need answering...


1) I've learnt organ to grade5..now i wish to sell my organ and get a keyboard cause i wish to form a band..do u guys think its a waste of my organ skills? basically i dont think so because it taught me improvisation for different kinds of music...but i hope to hear more opinions.. and if anyone is of the same case as me..


2) In organ we always have the pedal as base...what about keyboard...how is anyone gonna play techno with keyboard (besides using the accompainment feature) how does u keyboardist do base .. chords...and melody all at once...is it possible?


3) Does any keyboards have accompainment without the drum beat? u guys understand? i mean like having variations for the chords when u hold the chords but not hearing the bom boom pak of the drums? lol... I ask that cause sometimes i hope to jam with my drummer like maybe playing some techno but i need the accompaintment so i can play the melody...anyone?


4) What are the roles of a keyboardist? solos? chords? bass? or all at once?

5) Is it possible to fit an organ pedal to a keyboard? so it looks like a portable organ? LOL.... or do u guys think a band can actually include an organ? i mean ... the organ is huge..bulky...heavy..yeah u guys know what i mean la...

I just need answers..hope to receive at least some of them..thanks guys...music rox...
 
Well I can only answer a few of your questions to the best of my knowledge...

Question 1 :

I don't think that it would be waste of your organ skills because both an organ and keyboard has 7 white and 5 black keys right? You're still learning pretty much the same stuff as the keyboard but definitely not completely. The very fact that you have learnt improvisation skills for different types of music already gives you an advantage when taking up the keyboard. You need it heavily when playing keys in a band

Question 2 :

There is a function in most keyboards called the appaeggioator. Basically with proper settings even by holding one note on the keyboard can trigger off a constant techno beat. You combo that with a split keyboard function and what you get is one half of the keyboard is playing techno beats while the other half of the keyboard is playing the accompaniment

Question 3 :

Sorry I did not get what you're trying to say....

Question 4 :

Roles of a keyboardist? Everything. You can choose to omit playing Bass if your band already has a bassist....

Question 5 :

Almost every keyboard has an organ sample. As for the pedals , I'm not really sure about it. You're referring to those 12 pedals that represents each key on the organ right? Or is it the volume pedal?
 
Organ and piano skills are slightly different. But I believe an organ player maybe more suited to play in a band than a pianist. A pianist is trained to be a soloist - so both hands play melody/chords/bass. All can happen at the same time. In a band, you don't need to play the bass since somebody is already playing it (ie the bass player). Sometimes, the pianist can get lost if his left hand doesn't play the bass - ie if he's not used to not playing the bass.

Many portasounds (eg Yamaha) comes with accompaniment. Just turn off the drums track and you get accompaniment without the drum beat. Each accompaniment track/instrument can be turned off or on - quite flexible.

Definitely possible to fit an organ pedal to a keyboard via midi. It is not cheap. Check out this website for a 32-note pedalboard:

http://www.organworks.com/Web/products/products.asp?categoryid=17&category=MIDI Works

You don't need to bring an full sized organ to a gig. Keyboards function almost the same way as the organ in terms of touch and sounds. If you're used to playing 2 different sounds with the right and left hand (upper and lower keyboards), you can always split the keyboard into upper and lower zones, each with different assigned sounds. Can also get drawbars like an organ - examples are Roland VR760, Doepfer modular organ (expensive) or the link above. The only thing that makes it more into an organ is the pedalboard. But in a band, you don't really need that do you? The bass player does all that.
 
bluelite, welcome welcome!

1) Sell the organ if you do not wish to continue with the grades anymore. Keep it if you want to maybe give lessons to earn some pocket money? I came from similar background as you. Learnt the electronic organ, piano and then went on to learn keyboard/synthesizer. you will appreciate the boom bom pak better when you start sequencing your drums.

2) keyboardist usually do not do the bass (it is bass and not base). in a band context, we have the bassist!

3) some of the higher range keyboards have this function where you can control the volume of drums and accompainment individually.

4) Roles of keyboardist - EVERYTHING!
 
I think what's important is also that the skills you have acquired as a musician in general should enable u to apply them in various context, whether u play in a band, duo or whatever, if I get your question right. As for sounds, a good keyboard would have organ sound samples and more yeah? As for your role as a keyboardist, it depends on your bands direction and creativity, i guess. Not all rock bands relegate keyboards to supporting roles. Keane features the pianist/keyboards as their main instrument. Actually, everybody'a role in a band carries equal weight.
 
U know guys..this is a great forum...i'm glad to see so many replies and views...basically i get what u guys mean by "there's a bassist"..so there...

Many portasounds (eg Yamaha) comes with accompaniment. Just turn off the drums track and you get accompaniment without the drum beat. Each accompaniment track/instrument can be turned off or on - quite flexible.
Click to expand...

Which model? do u know? i've been to yamaha and i couldnt find one...and if anyone knows which model has this feature can tell me thanks...


Cheers~
 
erh you can check out the korg PA series..i had a go at it in citymusic and it sounded pretty ok...as for yamaha...erhh im not very sure about that...
 
Most yamaha PSR series portasounds do. The higher end ones have gives you quite a number of variations per style. My experience is that Yamaha portasounds are the most flexible and ser friendly compared to the other manufacturers.
 
this is an interesting thread. i'd like to offer my opinion to bluelite's questions:

1) your organ skills will not be a waste, but merely offers you basic training in one aspect of keyboard playing. there are many styles to keyboard playing. playing chords instead of appregios in the left hand is a good skill that pianists take a long time to pick up. on the other hand, the yamaha electone course trains u to rely on your feet for the bass, which is also something you need to unlearn. sometimes you really need to cover full chords(with rhythm, not just holding) and moving bass lines with your left hand.

2) many hammond organ trios have the organ player playing the bass lines wiht the LEFT HAND(no bassist usually). some use their feet on the pedals but only to emphasise and maybe cover up certain parts that may be hard to play with only 10 fingers. so, if you're going to play techno, you should be prepared to use your hand to do the bass line. simply because the fingers are far more flexible than the feet.

3) as for the auto accompaniment that comes on electones.. you gotta learn to live without that. in fact, it is your job as the keyboardist to provide that auto-accompaniment for the band(not only the rhythm guitarist, contrary to popular belief). holding chords and having a machine generate rhythmic patterns for you isn't going to work in a dynamic band. if you already have this mindset, you should unlearn it.

4) i like to think of the role of a keyboardist as the multi-purpose section as well as the main body of the band working closely with the drummer and bassist. then again depends on what music you wanna play. for genres such as r&b or techno, the mainstay of the band is the keyboardist(s). in general, you should not develop the mindset that any musician in the band has a more or less definite role, e.g one man to take the solos, one man to play rhythm etc.. not healthy, IMO. it is more impt to learn to discern what is most suitable for the song/music you're playing.

5) as for midi pedals, not really necessary. if you wish to gig as a keyboardist you'll probably wish you didn't even have to carry too much gear around. heh. but of course, whatever makes you happy you know. IMO you don't really need a new synthesizer for now until you come to a point when you feel that you really need one, e.g for certain sounds that you can't get on the electone, or the limited octave range of the electone etc. if you're new to the whole band concept i'd say you should invest time in practicing, ACTUALLY PLAYING WITH A BAND(very impt), and going for gigs to learn from other musicians(very impt too).

hope this is useful and comprehensible..
 
Wow..that provided me with some insights..from the things u say i assume u were once an organ player too? But no matter what, u have inspired me to work real hard to learn the keyboard...thanks for the comments. I'll take note...
 
that's great to hear.

actually i went through the yamaha piano course, and i had some friends who took the electone course. i also used to have an electone at home so i know pretty much what you're talking about and understand where you're coming from.
 
Hm...
if you doing arrangement for your band,
Electone is quite useful.

As keyboardist in a band, you may happen to play everything.
the difference between electone and keyboard is...
-no need to play bass with leg,
-play on one keyboard instead of 2, ie both hands on the same keyboards.

your electone knowledge sure benifit you as a keyboardist in a band.

:wink:
 
i agree with the unlearning of the playing of bass with yr left leg and relying on auto accompaniment that comes with chord playing on yr left hand.

but u can think of it as as exposure. having played bass lines b4, and listened to all the numerous accompaniment patterns form the electone, u may find it easier to add yr own stuff and creativity to yr left hand playing when u do a "duet" with yr vocalist for some ballads.

other than all the wonderful things that cheez ian and james higlilighteed which i totally agree wif, i guess on of the unique traits that u can develp and bring to yr jaming band is MIXING and song structure. yr electone exams also const of a self arranged song rite.?

many have already mentioned in this forum that shredders are too loud, keyboardist too overshadowed. but it need not be so all the way some times its also MEANT to be tat way depedning on the song or part of the song.



if ur members are modest and openminded enuff, u can give insight on the arrangement of a song, who shld come in when and where, and when to be loud and soft..a seasoned player shld always have his hand on the volume knob( or volume slide for keyboardists).

personally i still have a problem with volume control..ahahah.

its very true to say that u learn to adapt most by jaming, first of all with normal keys. u get used to the dual keyboards in some studios( i LOVEE weelee aljunied) than a normal pianist. but what u dun get as much in elcectones compared wif a live jam, is solo parts. how do u do a basssolo or a durm solo wif the electone.? and most electones pieces dun have "shreddin leads solos" susuag strings pr piano interludes only. tats some thing u can try with the organs adn leads on the keyboards or synthesizers.


u noe ar.. from yr electone that u can preprogram the volume mixes and order of instruments into the registrations buttons.

as u advanced form normal synthesizers in most studios to maybe playing around wit a synthesizer with a sequencer whereby u prerecord intro riffs and even symphonic parts. yr electone exposure will definately come in much handier than a even a seasoned classical pianist.

but after i used inboard sequencers and PC softwares, i start to miss the ease of arrangement with the electone, its such a breezeee..ahahah.
 
Yea...the electone course requires a self improvised song...2 arrangements actually...i guess i gotta put my skills into use...

Keeping one hand on the volume control? wouldnt that hinder your playing? Wont u be using only one hand? lol..that sounds tough...

About getting exp from jamming..i understand what u mean...guess what...i just went weelee on saturday! to try our jamming with my friends...scully u got see me b4...haha ... but dont u think weelee abit old? the keyboard's a little old also right? Maybe the ppl reading this can intro some good jamming studios...some cheap place with satisfactory intrus provided...anyone? Or somewhere where i can get a membership so that i can jam there regularly at cheaper rateS? anyone?

Oh u mentioned bout the synthesiser...
during my jaming session i only used the electric piano (if it is one...) the synthesiser i had a hard time using...although i realised there were a function called "appegio" which someone mentioned in this thread b4...and it will provide chord improvisation by just holding on to the chord..thats all i figured out...i tried using it but the sound seemed wierd and doesnt really fit... i guess i might need more info bout it...can someone just tell me how a syn. is different from a keyboard and why it is needed?

So there...thanks all bro!

Music Rox!
 
i disagree about having one hand on the volume control. a seasoned player would know how to pre-adjust the volume or make minor adjustments from time to time, but there is no need to have one hand constantly on the slider or knob. in fact, i think it would look weird, like u can't control your velocity properly or u don't know what to do with your left hand.

volume pedals should be used for expression, not master volume control.

about jamming studios.. most studios provide old keyboards, some not fully functional. unfortunately this is the way it is for keyboardists unless you're willing to lug your own synth all the way down. weelee keyboards are getting better, in fact one of the best available at such standard rates. sounds like you booked room 3, with the korg digital piano and roland rs-50 synth? the appregiator does not necessarily provide chords. as the name suggests, most of time it's a pre-programmed rhythmic pattern of running notes(or stationary, depends) based on the notes you are holding down without the appregiator octave range of the keyboard. it's nothing like the ones on the electone, FYI. the electone employs chord recognition techniques and generates appropriate rhythmic patterns based on the chord you're holding as well as the rhythm patch you have chosen. whereas not all synthesizers do this. in fact, few.
 
Hey, which model of electone are you using?
Btw i dont think its a waste cause wow, grade 5!! At this grade you would have good knowledge on music composition, impro e.g. So ya, make good use of them :wink:
Btw do you have to play on piano at this grade?
 
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