Keyboard questions...(Organ -> keyboard?)
- Thread starter bluelite
- Start date
bongman
New member
piano vs electone?
classical trained pianists are used to reading note by note transcription score
whereas electone players are trained the pop music way with chords and notes, that's why they are better equipped to do sequencing.
there is a rare breed of keyboardist/pianist who is trained in both electone and classical piano. this breed are the highly talented.
one example is local music arranger Goh Kheng Long, arranger/pianist for Stephanie Sun 'Cloudy Day'. He is electone trained and it is said he took 2 years to finish the ABRSM grade 8.
listen to David Tao 'the great leap 2005' album, Goh arranged most of the songs and one of the ballad features him playing a classical style solo in a song.
afterall, there is opportunity to be a full-time musician in Singapore as long as you are good
classical trained pianists are used to reading note by note transcription score
whereas electone players are trained the pop music way with chords and notes, that's why they are better equipped to do sequencing.
there is a rare breed of keyboardist/pianist who is trained in both electone and classical piano. this breed are the highly talented.
one example is local music arranger Goh Kheng Long, arranger/pianist for Stephanie Sun 'Cloudy Day'. He is electone trained and it is said he took 2 years to finish the ABRSM grade 8.
listen to David Tao 'the great leap 2005' album, Goh arranged most of the songs and one of the ballad features him playing a classical style solo in a song.
afterall, there is opportunity to be a full-time musician in Singapore as long as you are good
Cheez
Moderator
bongman said:
I beg to differ in opinion here! Electone players have the added advantage in that they start of by learning chords, which helps in terms of music composition and easy arrangements that require their electone. Remember that the electone does almost everything automatically - the rhythm runs by pressing a button; press another button and you get a fill-in etc. This does not require a lot of musical arragement skills, although some form of arrangement skills are needed. It does need knowledge of usage of chords and quick hands, fingers and feet coordination.
Classically trained piano players are trained in reading notes. That also means that they are not trained in playing chords, that is, inherently. But remember that chord progression is really part of theory. If they learn that properly and apply it, they have quite extensive knowledge on how to use them. Also remember that part of the ABRSM exam, we can choose between either sight-reading or be given a melody line and we come up with an arrangement with chord progression on the spot. The problem is most classically trained pianist focussed too much on the practical (technique and skills of playing etc) and not on the practicality and application of theory.
Sequencing is an art and a skill that can be learned. Here, we are not talking about arrangement of music, of which should be part of the package for those who sequence. But for the sake of simplicity, I'll mention sequencing strictly in the sense of converting a musical piece into midi and notations. In this case, sequencing will involve:
1. The skill to translate a musical piece or phrase into the exact notations. Here, ear-training is essential.
2. The skill to use different instruments to portray a musical idea. A lot of creativity is needed here.
3. The ability to tweak each instrument/sequence such as to make it alive. Sequencing is more than just pressing the record button and play the keyboard. It requires extensive cc messages changes in each and every note (if necessary) after the recording is done. 2 people can use the same instruments in sequencing the exact same piece with the exact same notes but will arrive at 2 different results.
Neither of these skills are specific to electone players or pianists. Either can acquire them - it just need training and experience. However, if we talk about arrangements, then it's a totally different ballgame.
bongman
New member
err.... maybe can gather some info from my observation:
electone players - cannot play the hammer-action piano well as a classical
pianist.
classical pianist - cannot play music from chord charts, very dependent on
score and also cannot play by ear very well. no knowledge
about chords and soloing scales.
anyway, whatever, as long as the passion is there, one can progress and move on to learn beyond his training regiment
electone players - cannot play the hammer-action piano well as a classical
pianist.
classical pianist - cannot play music from chord charts, very dependent on
score and also cannot play by ear very well. no knowledge
about chords and soloing scales.
anyway, whatever, as long as the passion is there, one can progress and move on to learn beyond his training regiment
Mr_KeyboardMan
New member
There isnt any rule why a classical pianist should not learn chord progressions and how to improvise is it?
Or
An electone player to learn how to sight read music scores?
So why not learn both at the same time? It is all music anyway. Why you have to divide them?
I was fortunate to have the opportunity to learn organ and classical piano at the same time. I feel that both are equally important as it complements each other and makes my playing whole.
Improvisation, theory, technique, being ear-trained, reading scores are essential skills to improve on in order to make you complete as a musician.
Or
An electone player to learn how to sight read music scores?
So why not learn both at the same time? It is all music anyway. Why you have to divide them?
I was fortunate to have the opportunity to learn organ and classical piano at the same time. I feel that both are equally important as it complements each other and makes my playing whole.
Improvisation, theory, technique, being ear-trained, reading scores are essential skills to improve on in order to make you complete as a musician.
Mr_KeyboardMan
New member
I was just fortunate my surroundings are very musically inclined ... lots of things that i can suck up from them 
Cheez
Moderator
Actually, most of the people I know who "plays chords" and improvise are piano trained. A few I know are neither piano nor organ trained - they just pick it up. THEY are the rare breed.
I play chords and improvise, and I'm a classicaly trained pianist. And I don't think I'm a rare breed at all.
I play chords and improvise, and I'm a classicaly trained pianist. And I don't think I'm a rare breed at all.
teraslasch
New member
its rare in singapore la.. i don think any of my frens even know how to improvise at all man.. lol.. other countries hard to say.. now even learning music in sg is also like sg education system lol..
DoubleBlade
New member
Errr....extinct in what way?
Anyways I'm also trained to play chords and improvise. I won't say I'm good in it but I'm more or less getting the hang of it....
I've seen classical pianist in my school both local and foreign who hold grade 8 certs and above and find the word "Improvise" taboo to them but I got to agree , their sight reading skills are really kick ass man!!!! 8)
Anyways I'm also trained to play chords and improvise. I won't say I'm good in it but I'm more or less getting the hang of it....
I've seen classical pianist in my school both local and foreign who hold grade 8 certs and above and find the word "Improvise" taboo to them but I got to agree , their sight reading skills are really kick ass man!!!! 8)
DoubleBlade said:
In fact, it's also been observed (and it's very true!) that Indonesian musicians kick ass when it comes to jazz and improvisation, but also, many a times when you drop an elementary sight reading piece in front of them, they "freeze"!
No dis-respect to the Indonesians here of course, as in many fronts, they are wa--ay ahead of us in musicianship!
QF
Indigo_blues
New member
yeah, the filipinos and indonesians are superb musicians. its in their blood i think.
Cheez
Moderator
Most of my cohort who improvise very well have either Grade 8 or diploma ABRSM. Most will think they should be sight-reading experts and knows nothing about improvisation. Well, they are certainly experts in improvisation as far as I know. The reason - application of theory and practical.
And I'm talking about one of two people I know - I know of at least 8-10.
And I'm talking about one of two people I know - I know of at least 8-10.
Cheez said:
I see. Well, on the pianists/electone players' ability (or inability) to improvise, I think I'd have seen/auditioned almost 150 people and perhaps 10% can do it? So that about equals the 8-10 people you know, eh? I guess that's about the same number of people we know, then! :wink:
QF