Even in flood, India's `untouchables' last rescued
- Thread starter THOA
- Start date
theunknown
New member
yay ts has got his questions answered! case close!
tim098
New member
You disgust me. What gives you the right to say that an unfortunate soul who happens to be born unto a father who is a sudra, but is himself ridiculously intelligent, diligent and pure of heart, and ends up growing up to be well liked by all, ends up still being the lowest?
You disgust me.
If there was a nobel prize for stupidity and brainless thrash talking, I am sure Martel will win it hands down.
Seriously if you are an indian, I feel ashamed of the way you represent being an Indian... Seriously dude, even if a brahmin is lazy and the biggest ****head in this world we should just respect him/her? Did you have a tough time in your office today....oops! do you work or are you lazy???
:twisted:
Originally Posted by martel
betsybug, bear in mind why sudras are not allowed to touch scriptures,they are not only crimminally inclined but unclean to the core within the DNA cells. Thus,it is the characters which evolved from the DNA structures of the certain castes. Even if someone from the sudra caste were to get a PHD he is and will always be a sudra. That is the stauch point i am making,and even if a brahmin is lazy,still he should be respected in all respect. Understand?
Seriously if you are an indian, I feel ashamed of the way you represent being an Indian... Seriously dude, even if a brahmin is lazy and the biggest ****head in this world we should just respect him/her? Did you have a tough time in your office today....oops! do you work or are you lazy???
:twisted:
Originally Posted by martel
betsybug, bear in mind why sudras are not allowed to touch scriptures,they are not only crimminally inclined but unclean to the core within the DNA cells. Thus,it is the characters which evolved from the DNA structures of the certain castes. Even if someone from the sudra caste were to get a PHD he is and will always be a sudra. That is the stauch point i am making,and even if a brahmin is lazy,still he should be respected in all respect. Understand?
I still find whatever martel posted contradicting.
I understand the part that every caste has a role to play in an orderly society, but as far as order is concerned, I don't see the need for discrimination.
It's wrong to assume that sudras are born to be criminals and neither is it right for lazy or incapable brahmins to get all the incentives that they can. It's foolish to think likewise and I believe your Lord wouldn't want a useless king to rule his people!
There's such a big contradiction somewhere in between and I have to point it out.
And besides, martel pointed out that the Aryans invasion is unreliable and only Lord Vishnu is right. But what makes you so sure that Lord Vishnu is right? I mean, I find it immature to simply dismiss what others say and enforce your own thoughts.
I understand the part that every caste has a role to play in an orderly society, but as far as order is concerned, I don't see the need for discrimination.
It's wrong to assume that sudras are born to be criminals and neither is it right for lazy or incapable brahmins to get all the incentives that they can. It's foolish to think likewise and I believe your Lord wouldn't want a useless king to rule his people!
There's such a big contradiction somewhere in between and I have to point it out.
And besides, martel pointed out that the Aryans invasion is unreliable and only Lord Vishnu is right. But what makes you so sure that Lord Vishnu is right? I mean, I find it immature to simply dismiss what others say and enforce your own thoughts.
Lol, I think we need a Hindi expert here. Someone who can really give guidance and provide the essential information. Because as far as I can feel and read, whatever martel writes here is of a biased nature.
I am reading this thread and laughing and rolling on the floor cos of certain comments posted by a certain someone. 
Oh my what narrow thinking. so shallow,
hmmm... martel let me ask u this question. are u a doctor of some kind? have u actually analyzed the DNAs of a brahmin and a sudra? if yes, den pls kindly support ur claims tt a sudra's DNA is more inclined to criminal intent than a brahmin. Can u also pls also support ur claims about y a lazy person, who sits at home and lives off their parents money, from a so called "higher caste" shld be respected while a hardworking person, who's incredibly intelligent with a PHD from a so called "lower caste" shouldn't.
So martel, ur saying that u'd rather have a person from a so called "higher caste" lead ur country even if tt person has no idea what he's doing rather than a person who has the right ideas, work attitude and ideals from a so called "lower caste".
Oh my what narrow thinking. so shallow,hmmm... martel let me ask u this question. are u a doctor of some kind? have u actually analyzed the DNAs of a brahmin and a sudra? if yes, den pls kindly support ur claims tt a sudra's DNA is more inclined to criminal intent than a brahmin. Can u also pls also support ur claims about y a lazy person, who sits at home and lives off their parents money, from a so called "higher caste" shld be respected while a hardworking person, who's incredibly intelligent with a PHD from a so called "lower caste" shouldn't.
So martel, ur saying that u'd rather have a person from a so called "higher caste" lead ur country even if tt person has no idea what he's doing rather than a person who has the right ideas, work attitude and ideals from a so called "lower caste".
Do you know the difference between the Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, Muslim fanatics and Hindu fanatics (of the martel stripe)?
Nothing. All of them will be able to quote you chapter and verse, and even scientific proof why they are the chosen ones and deserve to be top of the heap. In the perverse logic of their respective philosophies, the so-called purity of their bloodlines will reign supreme - they suffer no mixing with the "mongrel" races (in the case of the Nazis and KKK these are the Jews and blacks, for the Muslim fanatics the infidels, and for martel, the Sudras and the lower castes).
People like martel sees only differences between people. They argue for separation between communities, they raise walls, and they grind down those who are less fortunate. And they justify this by claiming some pre-ordained destiny that, not surprisingly preserve and perpetuate their positions.
People like him do not deserve our respect nor our understanding for they do not offer any in return. More than that, throughout history, millions have died from their efforts.
His views may seem laughable to us here, but make no mistake that they are extremely dangerous. They are the same sort that drive his kind onto the streets to kill and maim, whether that is in India, or Pakistan, Indonesia, and many other sad places.
(THOA, you'd be better off seeking your understanding from more credible sources - martel is not one of these)
Nothing. All of them will be able to quote you chapter and verse, and even scientific proof why they are the chosen ones and deserve to be top of the heap. In the perverse logic of their respective philosophies, the so-called purity of their bloodlines will reign supreme - they suffer no mixing with the "mongrel" races (in the case of the Nazis and KKK these are the Jews and blacks, for the Muslim fanatics the infidels, and for martel, the Sudras and the lower castes).
People like martel sees only differences between people. They argue for separation between communities, they raise walls, and they grind down those who are less fortunate. And they justify this by claiming some pre-ordained destiny that, not surprisingly preserve and perpetuate their positions.
People like him do not deserve our respect nor our understanding for they do not offer any in return. More than that, throughout history, millions have died from their efforts.
His views may seem laughable to us here, but make no mistake that they are extremely dangerous. They are the same sort that drive his kind onto the streets to kill and maim, whether that is in India, or Pakistan, Indonesia, and many other sad places.
(THOA, you'd be better off seeking your understanding from more credible sources - martel is not one of these)
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rottenramone
Active member
our very first fundamentalist hindu 
THOA
New member
Let me try to put together what I understood. Without emotional cloudiness or biased opinions. Something that is my own.
I believe in any system of faith or order, when it was first conceived it has a certain purpose to it. It doesn't matter what the system or believe is, whether it is right or wrong, there is a reason why the society of that time accepted it and made it into a way of life (perhaps forcibly so, but who are we to know the actual facts?)
For a system that seemingly discriminates and separates its fellow followers; for it to last this long... there must be something about it that works. I believe that it was first introduced to put balanced into social and ecomonomic output. Otherwise, everyone wants to be Brahmins and noone wants to be Shudras, which means the lesser jobs which, mind you, is equally as important... basically noone wants to do it. Then you get a society where it is all scholars and priests and talk but no action. Not a good thing for any society or country.
I believe the idea was first accepted because, as a Shudra, there is the promise of a better life after reincarnation, which they perhaps could be reborn into Brahmans.
However, I believe the caste system does not say that the Shudras be looked down upon. I believe that Lord Vishnu, of whom created this system, would expect the higher caste to help the lower caste fulfill that better future life, as much as the Shudra's are there to fulfill the needs of the Brahmans in the present life.
Now this is where it gets interesting. I believe that as human beings, we ourselves are equating the lower caste as something to be that is bad, evil, filthy etc when they are there to fulfill a purpose of a system of balanced life which might actually be equal but opposite. I'm not an expert in Hindu pantheons and mythology but doesn't Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva represent 3 different spectrum of a holy being?
I am inclined to think that the discrimination and prejudice boils down to how the believers are interpreting the caste system, rather than the system itself. Hence we have examples of the flood, or how women are being paraded and raped and such.
Of course, you have to also understand that a lot of system of belief applies to the time it was conceived. The disadvantage of religion is that as time evolves, there is very little room for it to evolve along with the times, so it becomes frustrating to adopt as time goes by, which leads to a natural animosity for it, which leads to people relinquishing it totally and eventually.
Your thoughts?
I believe in any system of faith or order, when it was first conceived it has a certain purpose to it. It doesn't matter what the system or believe is, whether it is right or wrong, there is a reason why the society of that time accepted it and made it into a way of life (perhaps forcibly so, but who are we to know the actual facts?)
For a system that seemingly discriminates and separates its fellow followers; for it to last this long... there must be something about it that works. I believe that it was first introduced to put balanced into social and ecomonomic output. Otherwise, everyone wants to be Brahmins and noone wants to be Shudras, which means the lesser jobs which, mind you, is equally as important... basically noone wants to do it. Then you get a society where it is all scholars and priests and talk but no action. Not a good thing for any society or country.
I believe the idea was first accepted because, as a Shudra, there is the promise of a better life after reincarnation, which they perhaps could be reborn into Brahmans.
However, I believe the caste system does not say that the Shudras be looked down upon. I believe that Lord Vishnu, of whom created this system, would expect the higher caste to help the lower caste fulfill that better future life, as much as the Shudra's are there to fulfill the needs of the Brahmans in the present life.
Now this is where it gets interesting. I believe that as human beings, we ourselves are equating the lower caste as something to be that is bad, evil, filthy etc when they are there to fulfill a purpose of a system of balanced life which might actually be equal but opposite. I'm not an expert in Hindu pantheons and mythology but doesn't Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva represent 3 different spectrum of a holy being?
I am inclined to think that the discrimination and prejudice boils down to how the believers are interpreting the caste system, rather than the system itself. Hence we have examples of the flood, or how women are being paraded and raped and such.
Of course, you have to also understand that a lot of system of belief applies to the time it was conceived. The disadvantage of religion is that as time evolves, there is very little room for it to evolve along with the times, so it becomes frustrating to adopt as time goes by, which leads to a natural animosity for it, which leads to people relinquishing it totally and eventually.
Your thoughts?
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Thoa,you know something about you which i fully respect? it is your ability to raise above emotional tensions and issues to focus the past and present reality into perspective. Yes,if everyone wants to be a scholar and priest,it will result in all talks and no works. Eventually,arguments and challenging debates are everywhere. In every society,there is a need for classification of work,it is that simple. And in the Indian society,it is linked with spiritualism as Lord Vishnu points out that according to one's nature,he is born within a certain caste and exhibiting the quality of that particular castes.Shudras as compared to brahmins are capable of more sinful acts,thus they have to take order and advice from their more intelligent governors. It is prevailing in every society,only that there might be less obvious and the name of 'caste' is not there. But everyone got a duty to do. At this present times,nobody think others know better than him or should i say everyone thinks he knows the best and hence nothing can be worked out. However,i sense a certain spiritual nature in Thoa which qualifies him to inquire about higher spiritual knowledge which directly influenced a society like india's caste system framework. You have my blessings,Thoa. You will be benefited due to your nature. Are you a muslim?
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rottenramone
Active member
like i mentioned earlier, it can operate in an ideal world where everyone accepts their fate. but there is a lack of choice in this system, which is contrary to basic human rights no?
it smacks of prejudice as the lower castes are led to believe that they must have done something wrong in their previous life. are they born into the guilt, and do they deserve it?
it smacks of prejudice as the lower castes are led to believe that they must have done something wrong in their previous life. are they born into the guilt, and do they deserve it?
henryvelge
New member
actually thinking about it, singapore as well, has a very racial tension issue.
although we seldom see it, but it is very evident in all of us.
rarely do i see a close group of friends with mixed races.
i guess every society has this kinda problem.
although we seldom see it, but it is very evident in all of us.
rarely do i see a close group of friends with mixed races.
i guess every society has this kinda problem.
THOA
New member
=Martel
Yes, I am a Muslim. I just have an inquiring mind, and I believe a damn good understanding of faiths and believes would help me understand certain things about other faiths that even the believers themselves might miss out.
Mind you, I do not agree with some of the things you say (eg Shudras are prone to be more sinful than Brahmins, Brahmins are more intelligent etc) but please do understand I am in no position to question your believe in such matters, for I am as ignorant as I am inquisitive. I certainly did not create this thread to argue with anyone, or start an argument among other people.
I do however understand your frustration in the lack of understanding of your faith. I believe your frustration stems from the fact that you felt that this is something that has been unfairly questioned and attacked.
Again, I do not agree with everything you say. I believe all human beings are created equal, and should be fairly treated. But I think you put a bit of perspective that helped open a door to understanding your faith, and for that I thank you.
Yes, I am a Muslim. I just have an inquiring mind, and I believe a damn good understanding of faiths and believes would help me understand certain things about other faiths that even the believers themselves might miss out.
Mind you, I do not agree with some of the things you say (eg Shudras are prone to be more sinful than Brahmins, Brahmins are more intelligent etc) but please do understand I am in no position to question your believe in such matters, for I am as ignorant as I am inquisitive. I certainly did not create this thread to argue with anyone, or start an argument among other people.
I do however understand your frustration in the lack of understanding of your faith. I believe your frustration stems from the fact that you felt that this is something that has been unfairly questioned and attacked.
Again, I do not agree with everything you say. I believe all human beings are created equal, and should be fairly treated. But I think you put a bit of perspective that helped open a door to understanding your faith, and for that I thank you.
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THOA
New member
True. Then again as I mentioned, a lot of faith system are flawed in one way or another, and the caste system is no different.
I guess the "ideal" idea is to have believe of guilt be the motivation factor for the lower caste to lead a good life for that "promise" or a better future life? We can only deduce and assume, for we are not the ones who created the system.
You are most welcome. It is good that you inquire more.Because like i said,such constructive mind with it's thinking capability will only help you to gain further knowledge and understand spirit as well as matters.I am not frustrated as to whether i lack understanding of my faith.The points are clear and i even gave quotes derived from Bagavad Gita cause someone challenged me. Regarding "Shudras are prone to be more sinful than Brahmins",it is the genes at work.We can argue forever and i know Islam preached equality too but just take a look around you and examine it with a cool mind like what you have.Example,what are the entertainments of certain types of people who does certain types of work.You will know what i mean.I am glad you open yourself up in this holy month of Ramadhan. You will be rewarded unknowingly by the Lord.
THOA
New member
Bro, I was meaning to say that you are frustrated by Other people's lack of understanding of your faith. Not about you lacking understanding. You are definitely knowledgeable enough, or at least more knowledgeable than me heh.
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KDY
New member
"The tendency of brahmins to do those bad things are practically zero. Whereas sudras are very frequently indulging in sinful acts."
No offense, but i find that sentence biased as there are no proven facts/statistics to prove that the crime rate/IQ level of brahmins are higher that sudras and i have practically no idea what Martel is trying to say for the past 12 pages.
No offense, but i find that sentence biased as there are no proven facts/statistics to prove that the crime rate/IQ level of brahmins are higher that sudras and i have practically no idea what Martel is trying to say for the past 12 pages.
=betsybug
betsybug: i totally agree with u on this altho i dun think martel has any scientific proofs whatsoever
martel, it seems tt ur online and have chosen to ignore my questions. no matter, u haf just proven to me tt u haf no proofs whatsoever for ANY of ur claims and thus have also proven to me tt ur nothing but an empty vessel, im sure you know the phrase bout an empty vessels. cheers martel, when u pass on, the world will definitely be a better place. cheers.
i actually thank goodness tt there is no caste system in singapore as there would have been no way tt singapore would have progressed till the way we r now if there was one, or if any of our forefathers think the same way as martel does.
as a matter of fact i'm disgusted by martel. i pray to GOD tt i will never meet u or anyone like u.
martel, singapore is a country with a multiracial society. ur one sided views on caste system is bordering on racial prejudice, as anyone not born into the caste system is considered as an untouchable n therefore shldn't be treated with respect, is not welcomed.
peace out
betsybug: i totally agree with u on this altho i dun think martel has any scientific proofs whatsoever
martel, it seems tt ur online and have chosen to ignore my questions. no matter, u haf just proven to me tt u haf no proofs whatsoever for ANY of ur claims and thus have also proven to me tt ur nothing but an empty vessel, im sure you know the phrase bout an empty vessels. cheers martel, when u pass on, the world will definitely be a better place. cheers.
i actually thank goodness tt there is no caste system in singapore as there would have been no way tt singapore would have progressed till the way we r now if there was one, or if any of our forefathers think the same way as martel does.
as a matter of fact i'm disgusted by martel. i pray to GOD tt i will never meet u or anyone like u.
martel, singapore is a country with a multiracial society. ur one sided views on caste system is bordering on racial prejudice, as anyone not born into the caste system is considered as an untouchable n therefore shldn't be treated with respect, is not welcomed.
peace out
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