Why do we need to pay to perform nowdays???

[dezng]

but even with what dezng said, you dont see much an industry here either?

I mean if a local band can really sellout tickets then that will create the intended industry. Organisers will look for you. Record labels will look for you and you will get paid and never need to pay to play ever again. Simple equation that applies all around the world.

 

[ridethetiger]

I disagree with the phrase " can really sellout tickets ".

A salesman can sell a lot of tickets,but whether people really like your music or because they bought a tic and must come down and oblige u is another thing totally.

 

[ridethetiger]

Touché. So I guess it depends on how many years back we see as "many years back".



I got a bit confused when TS said "as of lately". I guess "as of lately" could also mean "in the last 10 years", where I thought it would mean "in recent months".


Hi all as of lately i've been noticing that I my Laserdiscs can't fit into the players. How come players the hole so small? Do I need to fold the disc to put inside?

And how come recently all the computers no place to put my floppy disc? My whole music collection (all 10 songs of them) are inside. Somebody help!

The TS also used the words "old times", Seems like the pathetic Blueark has no idea what that means.

 

[dezng]

I disagree with the phrase " can really sellout tickets ".

A salesman can sell a lot of tickets,but whether people really like your music or because they bought a tic and must come down and oblige u is another thing totally.

You don't get the point.

Does it matter? You have to get to play before people can have the opportunity to like your music. If there's no audience what's the point of a gig? Securing one is the only way to get your music across if it's not important to you, why are you playing in a band? Self pleasure?

 

[ridethetiger]

Does it matters? Of cos it does. How many times can friends or relatives Oblige u? and if there's no sales for the tixs,u as an organizer would u help the bands? my bet is you won't. Cos your prime concern is headcounts aka. Cash in your hand.

 

[dezng]

Does it matters? Of cos it does. How many times can friends or relatives Oblige u? and if there's no sales for the tixs,u as an organizer would u help the bands? my bet is you won't. Cos your prime concern is headcounts aka. Cash in your hand.

Know more friends. LOL

 

[lordie]

You don't get the point.

Does it matter? You have to get to play before people can have the opportunity to like your music. If there's no audience what's the point of a gig? Securing one is the only way to get your music across if it's not important to you, why are you playing in a band? Self pleasure?

hahaha and the point being pay to play and get 30-40ppl turn up for a gig? what a waste of $$$$.

ppl can get opportunity to listen or like your music by spending hours in the studio recording your songs and aggressively marketing your CD maybe with the help of local or overseas record lables and distributors

the reach and captive audience a well recorded tracks is so much wider than some paid to play gig that with turn out of 30-40 ppl hahahaha

 

[paradox.]

maybe coz the renting is expensive? try forking out 300++ just to organize a gig. 8 bands perform. and you are the one losing out, maybe 100+ satisfied faces, time's change guys. we need to pay, use toilet paper also need pay.

 

[lordie]

maybe coz the renting is expensive? try forking out 300++ just to organize a gig. 8 bands perform. and you are the one losing out, maybe 100+ satisfied faces, time's change guys. we need to pay, use toilet paper also need pay.

so forking out 300++ and get 8 bands to play and 100+ turn up. with $10 tix each x 100 folks = $1000. minus 300, get 700 profits. band pays and get nothing accept 100+ smiling faces. no merchandise sold, no nothing. lol... and still bands wanna pay to play. idiots.

 

[ridethetiger]

Lordie,this type of organizers r targetting the youngs. The 16+ before 21 yrs olds, who are so eager to stand in front of people. They tot that thats the reason they form a band,buy a guitar n Jam etc. On stage, wrong tunings nevermind,sing out of tune nevermind,just as long 'we are performing' is in the mind can oready. How can they compare with serious musicians who are commited to the art? like those top scorers at "loudest band competition" here in Soft? so still young bands wanna pay to play,until they wake up to see the disadvantages they are in. If everyone boycott the "pay to perform",these organizers will soon need to get a job in the factory,LoL.It's a fact.

 

[ancientmariner]

Simple answer to a rather tiring question.

Rising costs, there is inflation every year but ticket prices for local gigs still remain unchanged for the last decade or so... Even gig organizers need to think of breaking even... unless you want to support them by paying for their food and transport lah...

Apathetic music listeners who does not want to pay for local gigs despite all the B.S. they spew online about supporting local music... and some of these pathetic "local music supporters" happen to play in a band. They want people to watch their band but they don't watch other bands perform... yeah, long live local music!

Profiteering venue operators who think they can charge high rent for small spaces... but nowadays land and property prices keep rising... something which "local music" scene kids have yet to understand because they don't follow the news...

Lazy bands whose idea of promotion is just to have a Myspace or Facebook account, expecting MANY people out there are dying to come to their boring shows...

Bands who still have their rock star egos stuck in their asses, thinking that times have not changed, refusing to adapt to changing conditions in today's music landscape...

Don't wish for free gigs here in Singapore (unless got big sponsor or some kids with rich daddies organize one)... even our politicians used to say there's no free lunch in Singapore... but when got free gig, you see all the lazy bands and rock star wannabes wanna play... and you have all those lip-service "we support local" kids will come and watch...

So, adapt to these changes or just go ahead and dream about the good old times that won't come back, just like how the days when bus fares were as cheap as 15 cents won't ever come back. Last time, you produce demo, got people buy. Now you spent thousands to produce CD, who will buy?

So enough said. Talk a lot also no use. Live and learn, people.

 

[ancientmariner]

In addition, if you just starting to play in a band, start small first lah... Bon Jovi also never play in big stage in front of thousands when they first formed.. Metallica played in garage shows.. as in literally, at other people's garage... so what's wrong with pay to perform or don't get paid to perform? Seriously, who wants to watch your new band in the first place?

If your band is like established and you know for sure, and organizers know for sure, that many people want to watch you.. then you can start talking about making money from gigs...

If music to you is just hobby, then treat it as it is... a hobby... an expensive hobby... most hobbies you need to spend what? So paying to perform is part of the cost of your hobby.. if you want a cheaper hobby, maybe go collect tin cans or bottle caps...

By the way, simple economics... if there is no demand for you, why should people pay to listen to you? Why would then organizers put you in their show? So bands... instead of whining about the music scene nowadays... go and CREATE DEMAND for your own selves...

 

[irmancino]

Ya i guess its true its all simple economics of supply and demand... the supply is abundant but the demand sadly to say cant fill up that gap. What can we improve? I believe IGNITE was a blast featuring local bands that was great performers from the newbies and the regular acts... Really hoping our music industry and even Radios to start noticing our Music~

 

[ridethetiger]

Rising costs, there is inflation every year but ticket prices for local gigs still remain unchanged for the last decade or so... Even gig organizers need to think of breaking even... unless you want to support them by paying for their food and transport lah...

Apathetic music listeners who does not want to pay for local gigs despite all the B.S. they spew online about supporting local music... and some of these pathetic "local music supporters" happen to play in a band. They want people to watch their band but they don't watch other bands perform... yeah, long live local music!

Profiteering venue operators who think they can charge high rent for small spaces... but nowadays land and property prices keep rising... something which "local music" scene kids have yet to understand because they don't follow the news...

Lazy bands whose idea of promotion is just to have a Myspace or Facebook account, expecting MANY people out there are dying to come to their boring shows...

Bands who still have their rock star egos stuck in their asses, thinking that times have not changed, refusing to adapt to changing conditions in today's music landscape...

Don't wish for free gigs here in Singapore (unless got big sponsor or some kids with rich daddies organize one)... even our politicians used to say there's no free lunch in Singapore... but when got free gig, you see all the lazy bands and rock star wannabes wanna play... and you have all those lip-service "we support local" kids will come and watch...

So, adapt to these changes or just go ahead and dream about the good old times that won't come back, just like how the days when bus fares were as cheap as 15 cents won't ever come back. Last time, you produce demo, got people buy. Now you spent thousands to produce CD, who will buy?

So enough said. Talk a lot also no use. Live and learn, people.

Gig organizers depend on ticket sellers for their "career"? better get a Job like i say as a factory worker,get paid more. Dont have to quote your political daddy on anything, there's free food around i can show u a list. U seriously think Local bands dont know it's essential to start it small? but u guys just wanna cash in on that too,now that is what i call 'pure greed'. And don't have to sarcastically compare hobbies, "pay to perform' is a matter of choice,it is not A PART of the cost of this 'hobby'. Gosh,i dont think u know how bands work,how much blood and efforts,energy it is for every Jam and band to progress. And here u are, comparing 'hobbies". I don't think bands r whining about the music scene nowadays. But your attitude of telling hardworking bands to "go and CREATE DEMAND" for your own selves is disgusting and purely selfish.

 

[ancientmariner]

Hey ridethetiger bro,

Nice to see an idealist like you still around.

FYI, I have been following the local music scene for the past 20 years. I started out as a fan, going to gigs (free ones like those at old WTC Amphi), buying demos from up-and-coming local bands (and I still keep them today), reading underground news on fanzines (before the internet). I can say that I care more about the local music scene than many online posers nowadays.

And I don't make such comments on a fancy. I have interacted and discussed this issue with many musicians and organizers. And we get very heated and blunt about this issue. But the main thing that every aspiring hardworking band must realise is that the times have changed. THE TIMES HAVE INDEED CHANGED! With MP3 and downloading, making demos or CD may no longer be sound so bands have to think of a better way to reach out...

Seriously, you sound very emotional in your argument that you don't see the merits in my argument. I played in bands before and I jammed countless numbers of times. And seriously, the money I spent on jamming and on gears... it's a lot.. but I don't care.. because I am very passionate about this whole music thing... so I know about sacrifice and hard work...

But wait until you start to have your own family... when money becomes a constraint... when you need to prioritize your time and money on the essential family things... you start to think twice or thrice or many times about sacrificing time and money just to play music... So if I still want to play in band when I already got my own family to support, I better think of a way that playing in a band is fruitful, personally and financially... at least the missus won't be angry with me! So there must be an endpoint: If my band wants to play for a large crowd, then my band better not just treat this as an expensive hobby but do something to create demand for ourselves so that many people want to watch... If my band wants to cut a full-length album, better make sure that there are enough people out there who want to listen to my band or else I have to keep the hundreds extra CDs underneath my bed or store-room.... Understand now?

But the issue here is not about this.. It is about why bands have to pay to perform... I don't want to repeat myself... simple argument... Organizers won't pay you if you don't attract crowds... If organizers want to be "kind" enough to give you a slot and ask for payment as financial security for themselves, if you see this as a band investment, go ahead and pay...

If bands hate these capitalists organizers, then bands should go ahead book and organize their own gigs. If people or bands not whining, surely this topic won't be resurrected again, eh?

 

[theblueark]

The TS also used the words "old times", Seems like the pathetic Blueark has no idea what that means.

lol, you're a funny guy. Ok i'll play along, tell me what old times means. Does it mean the 60's, the 70's, the 80's, the 90's, the 00's or is it a relative term?

 

[ancientmariner]

BTW ridethetiger bro,

Since when did I bring up organizing gigs as a career in my argument?

Also since you sounded angry, have you directly engaged the greedy organizers about their unethical mode of business?

If you've not directed your anger at these organizers, maybe you want to do something about it? Or at least think for a solution to it?

If you want to do something about the situation, let me share with you the following existing situations, all happening almost simultaneously:

1) many people are not watching local gigs if they have to pay more than $5 (in some cases, people don't want to pay to watch local gigs)
2) so many gigs organized in one day
3) a lot of bands, both good and bad, want to perform in front of an appreciating audience (and this audience consists of people in point no. 1)
4) the people who rent out venue for gigs put a relatively high rate (and they may have their own justified reasons to do so)

So maybe if you have considered the above points, and you have came up with solutions (you can keep it to yourself, no need to share cos I know they're intellectual property), good for you and hopefully you can come out of this thread with something good for the hardworking musicians.

Oh.. and I'm just a local music fan who later became a disillusioned musician after a few band failures... for the past 20 years.. not a greedy organizer...

 

[ancientmariner]

My age is 46 this year.

Many years back, there are no such pay to perform organisers. Now, there are such organisers.

Many years back, there are free gigs. Now, there are very very few free gigs.

OK, my fault for not reading earlier posts so I don't realize you are senior than me. I am only 34 years young (not old yet). Which means you have seen and experienced more things than I do and that makes you very OTAI, more OTAI than me.

But really bro, we need to realize that times have changed... situations have changed... the realities today are way different from the good old days in the past... either we adapt or we try to change things instead of whining and wanting the past to come back.

That's all I have to say.

 

[kongwee]

I am curious about one thing, is band really appeal to us(locally)? I am not interested in band really. Also local people can pay more than $5 to watch a local performance(in different genre). The highest I bought for local performance is $22. If nobody wanna pay more than $5 for a band then sometime must be wrong there.

 

[sharp__edge]

yeah. putting aside the bands themselves, could the more experienced musicians provide us with more information?

out of 10 gigs organised at a local club level, how many are actually ptp gigs, or gigs where you have to sell your own tickets/organiser can't be bothered to promote at all?