Which burger should i get?
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Mobius
New member
edo83, attitudes are difficult to change, just like yours for calling people stupid and being ignorant abt stickies. So one way is to guide them to the stickies by making them "very obvious" And if u going to change attitudes, how are u going to carry that out? start an education campaign? there's always going to be new people joining, and u goin to "educate" all the time? This is wat happening now, we keep telling people to refer to the stickies, but people will either forget or there are always new people joining.
have also observed that there's snappy attitudes to newbs who ask qns that has been repeated. This is quite uncalled for really, everyone was once a noob, if u dont like their qns, jus ignore and it will die out. be nice, its good for ur karma. No offense intended.
have also observed that there's snappy attitudes to newbs who ask qns that has been repeated. This is quite uncalled for really, everyone was once a noob, if u dont like their qns, jus ignore and it will die out. be nice, its good for ur karma. No offense intended.
Cheez
Moderator
edo83, the sticky may not work as well as we hope to. If I'm a newbie looking for a new guitar and wants help, the titles of the threads in the stickies are not overtly clear to me that I'll be getting help there.
What the FAQ does is that it categorizes nicely with an appropraite topic pointing to the relevant threads. I think that helps a lot.
I'm not sure why people are arguing whether we should or should not have it. The FAQ section works marvellously for the keyboard section. Now, it only remains to see whether there are any more people asking these same questions again.
Perhaps the only shortfall is that the FAQ section is not clear in itself. Take for example - I'm a newbie looking for a guitar. This is the first time I've come to SOFT. There will be no way I'll be clicking on the FAQ section first since it doesn't tell me what's in it. I'll probably click the "forum" section, get overwhelmed, and post the same old question again before somebody pointing me to the FAQ section. I think this is more of an issue rather than whether we should have an FAQ section or not.
What the FAQ does is that it categorizes nicely with an appropraite topic pointing to the relevant threads. I think that helps a lot.
I'm not sure why people are arguing whether we should or should not have it. The FAQ section works marvellously for the keyboard section. Now, it only remains to see whether there are any more people asking these same questions again.
Perhaps the only shortfall is that the FAQ section is not clear in itself. Take for example - I'm a newbie looking for a guitar. This is the first time I've come to SOFT. There will be no way I'll be clicking on the FAQ section first since it doesn't tell me what's in it. I'll probably click the "forum" section, get overwhelmed, and post the same old question again before somebody pointing me to the FAQ section. I think this is more of an issue rather than whether we should have an FAQ section or not.
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
Is there a way to have a welcoming 'welcome to soft.. how-to-get-around-and-hopefully-have-your-newbie-questions-answered' kind of pop-up window or perhaps a small text appearing on the welcome screen, when a new softie signs up?
Is there a way to have a welcoming 'welcome to soft.. how-to-get-around-and-hopefully-have-your-newbie-questions-answered' kind of pop-up window or perhaps a small text appearing on the welcome screen, when a new softie signs up?
killinghall
New member
I've got to say that the burger banner advertisment on the forum's landing page simply takes the cake!
That's what I call 'genius', soft...hahaha!
That's what I call 'genius', soft...hahaha!
exin
New member
somehow i believe that the search function for SOFT isn't too obvious for newbies.
I think it's perfectly okay to ask valid questions but alot of times i believe newbies do not know how to phrase their question properly.
Alot of times in a zeal of wanting to get their questions answered especially "what guitar/bass should i get" newbs would just post it to get answers fast without taking the time to look through the forum.
Have to agree on the point that this forum is of course to discuss gear and all things music.
Maybe a good start would to make the search function more obvious for all users?
I think it's perfectly okay to ask valid questions but alot of times i believe newbies do not know how to phrase their question properly.
Alot of times in a zeal of wanting to get their questions answered especially "what guitar/bass should i get" newbs would just post it to get answers fast without taking the time to look through the forum.
Have to agree on the point that this forum is of course to discuss gear and all things music.
Maybe a good start would to make the search function more obvious for all users?
Look if there's a newbie to the forums, won't he/her be a newbie to whatever search functions and faqs and method of phrasing his/her inquiries?
Why not you create an entire link to a whole set of pages with brief writeups on what to note for when looking for his/her first guitar?
Maybe you can name the link like "Getting Your First Axe?" It's bound to divert attention to the link rather than opening up oppurtunities for them to create a thread on something that's already posted a millions times...
I agree with the comment that attitudes should change. We are a fun-loving and very accomodating virtual community. All of us have had our noob days where we wanna gather as much information as possible. Credit given to those who took the effort in googling by themselves. However, I don't think it's correct to pin-point on mistakes such as a noob coming in to ask questions about stuff that we have already answered before. It's his method on gathering info right? What's wrong with it?
In fact why not just create a link that goes straight to Harmony Central or something?
Why not you create an entire link to a whole set of pages with brief writeups on what to note for when looking for his/her first guitar?
Maybe you can name the link like "Getting Your First Axe?" It's bound to divert attention to the link rather than opening up oppurtunities for them to create a thread on something that's already posted a millions times...
I agree with the comment that attitudes should change. We are a fun-loving and very accomodating virtual community. All of us have had our noob days where we wanna gather as much information as possible. Credit given to those who took the effort in googling by themselves. However, I don't think it's correct to pin-point on mistakes such as a noob coming in to ask questions about stuff that we have already answered before. It's his method on gathering info right? What's wrong with it?
In fact why not just create a link that goes straight to Harmony Central or something?
Cheez: I think it's same to assume that the amount of members joining being guitarists far outweighs those in the keyboard section...thus the glaring difference at those so called "noob" questions asked imo.
I'm not saying that the stickies or the FAQ section is almighty in our own forum, but when it states explicitly that to *READ BEFORE POSTING*......i don't know what other forms of language that could better convey that 3 words. Visual indication missing yes, but i don't really see the problems in some of the other forums i frequent which also has FAQs/stickies in place. Perhaps the lack of establishing such database wasn't present since day 1 and there wasn't a fixed concept of how things are to be run here i guess.
Mobius: No offense, i know myself that i'm just short tempered...if you'd noticed, i've reduced posting by more than 80% of what i usually post.
I'm not saying that the stickies or the FAQ section is almighty in our own forum, but when it states explicitly that to *READ BEFORE POSTING*......i don't know what other forms of language that could better convey that 3 words. Visual indication missing yes, but i don't really see the problems in some of the other forums i frequent which also has FAQs/stickies in place. Perhaps the lack of establishing such database wasn't present since day 1 and there wasn't a fixed concept of how things are to be run here i guess.
Mobius: No offense, i know myself that i'm just short tempered...if you'd noticed, i've reduced posting by more than 80% of what i usually post.
Cheez
Moderator
I know how tiresome it can be when after going through a very long time (days) answering one person's queries only to be met with the exact same question a few days later by somebody else (my passive response is just to ignore it and hope somebody else post an answer... )
I guess there's no way to stop that. In other forums, I see that no matter how hard people try (good search functions etc), people still ask the same old questions. It just take a kind soul to post a link to the right place. But yes, it does get tiresome when you keep reading it again and again!
Anyhow, my point is this. No matter how we try, we're probably going to accept that there are going to be newbies, and newbies being newbies will post and ask questions, and some of these questions will be questions asked previously. Perhaps having a FAQ section where all the links are put in one place may be easier at least for us to post 1 link as an answer (rather 5 links!). I noticed sometimes people like Bongman, in response to somebody's question about keyboards, took the effort to search through links within SOFT and outside (sometimes coming out with 4 or 5 different links). That may be spoonfeeding, but his effort is appreciated.
Of course, the other responses could be: post an angry post to the person, post a sarcastic post person (all had happened before), ban the person (glad that hasn't happened yet...), passively ignore (I'm guilty of that), or start a thread like this with an FAQ section...
Or any other solutions?
)I guess there's no way to stop that. In other forums, I see that no matter how hard people try (good search functions etc), people still ask the same old questions. It just take a kind soul to post a link to the right place. But yes, it does get tiresome when you keep reading it again and again!
Anyhow, my point is this. No matter how we try, we're probably going to accept that there are going to be newbies, and newbies being newbies will post and ask questions, and some of these questions will be questions asked previously. Perhaps having a FAQ section where all the links are put in one place may be easier at least for us to post 1 link as an answer (rather 5 links!). I noticed sometimes people like Bongman, in response to somebody's question about keyboards, took the effort to search through links within SOFT and outside (sometimes coming out with 4 or 5 different links). That may be spoonfeeding, but his effort is appreciated.
Of course, the other responses could be: post an angry post to the person, post a sarcastic post person (all had happened before), ban the person (glad that hasn't happened yet...), passively ignore (I'm guilty of that), or start a thread like this with an FAQ section...
Or any other solutions?
penta-tonic:
Remember years back then when you know nuthin about guitar and pentatonic scale :lol: , you also trouble your friends, ask stupid questions, etc.
Everyone need to start somewhere. So it's perfectly ok for a newbie to ask question. Yes, to oldies, it's like same question over and over again, but it's different newbiew everytime. We could help by pointing to the correct previous thread, if any.
We heard some self proclaimed pro raving about the same boring gear over and over again too over here. But since they's oldies, very few people dare to complain :lol:
And that's one of the purpose of the forum, IMHO. Who says that the forum is for pro only? :roll:
Remember years back then when you know nuthin about guitar and pentatonic scale :lol: , you also trouble your friends, ask stupid questions, etc.
Everyone need to start somewhere. So it's perfectly ok for a newbie to ask question. Yes, to oldies, it's like same question over and over again, but it's different newbiew everytime. We could help by pointing to the correct previous thread, if any.
We heard some self proclaimed pro raving about the same boring gear over and over again too over here. But since they's oldies, very few people dare to complain :lol:
And that's one of the purpose of the forum, IMHO. Who says that the forum is for pro only? :roll:
Impromptu, penta refers to the guitar - gear section, he is correct.
Funny you mention how recommending the same gear over & over again as something "bad" :lol: Recommend different gear that one never used sure kena slammed... recommend what you use, also can kena slammed - can't please everyone! :wink:
The issue is larger at hand... it isn't just that simple.
With the Internet age and the coming-to-age of digital natives, kids seem to want to be spoon-fed MORE THAN EVER.
Look at the postings.
Worse, post, suck in the info, walk off never to be seen again. Contributes nothing more. A-typical of take-no-give!
When I wanted an electric guitar. I yahoo-ed like crazy. I discovered harmony-central. I discovered Jemsite. I discovered a lot of cool online resources on guitars and stuff... and I pm-ed people in the Jemsite forum for their take on specific models.
Sure. Its fine for a newbie to ask questions. It is.
But at the frighteningly increasing rate the "What burger should I eat" questions keep popping up... I'm more inclined to think they are just lazy.
Maybe we should be like TGP, when such a question comes up, just ignore and don't bother replying. How's that? Seen such threads there appear and disappear - 0 replies. Cruel but then perhaps the desperation of not being able to get an easy answer will lead to some google-ing.
Funny you mention how recommending the same gear over & over again as something "bad" :lol: Recommend different gear that one never used sure kena slammed... recommend what you use, also can kena slammed - can't please everyone! :wink:
The issue is larger at hand... it isn't just that simple.
With the Internet age and the coming-to-age of digital natives, kids seem to want to be spoon-fed MORE THAN EVER.
Look at the postings.
Worse, post, suck in the info, walk off never to be seen again. Contributes nothing more. A-typical of take-no-give!
When I wanted an electric guitar. I yahoo-ed like crazy. I discovered harmony-central. I discovered Jemsite. I discovered a lot of cool online resources on guitars and stuff... and I pm-ed people in the Jemsite forum for their take on specific models.
Sure. Its fine for a newbie to ask questions. It is.
But at the frighteningly increasing rate the "What burger should I eat" questions keep popping up... I'm more inclined to think they are just lazy.
Maybe we should be like TGP, when such a question comes up, just ignore and don't bother replying. How's that? Seen such threads there appear and disappear - 0 replies. Cruel but then perhaps the desperation of not being able to get an easy answer will lead to some google-ing.
thor666
New member
I've already suggested solutions, from placing a new subforum to archiving threads into a new forum so no one can complain about not being able to search the forum. We can also limit postings for newcomers. Whether it will be done depends on whether James is receptive. We can argue until the cows come home but it does depend partially whether James wants to respond to what we've posted here.
Expecting mindset changes from forummers alone would be insufficient. The solution has to be multifaceted.
Expecting mindset changes from forummers alone would be insufficient. The solution has to be multifaceted.
Cheez
Moderator
Perhaps that's the perfect reason why we should be careful on being too hasty to turn people away.
Many years ago, my seargent in the army really gave me a hard time. The only reason was he couldn't find any fault in me. He tried his best to find some way of punishing me but got frustrated as he couldn't. So he really tried to get me into trouble. Little did he dreamed one fine day he would walk into my consulatation room in the army camp and saluting to me as his MO.
Anyway, the point is newbies/noobs will and may one day turn professional - and better than any of us here discussing about gears. Who knows, some of us may one day end up playing and asking that person about a piece of instrument that person created and marketed. In this small world, you never know...
I always find it funny about a post about 8 years back in another music forum. One sample developer was way too critical over a young composer's music. He think he faked it because he didn't believe anybody could make his music sound so real. The thread went for many pages - mainly accusations and bad attitudes. In the end, the sample developer was proved wrong despite him not admitting to it. More interesting, that young guy eventually became a big time composer with lots of offerings including hollywood. That sample developer ... well, the company folded.
Not a very good analogy, but generally the same kind of idea...
thank you for all the suggestions/responses.
from the feedback, there are 2 things we can try.
1. Improve the usability of the site
a. Organise FAQs
b. Highlight FAQs to make it more obvious
2. User self-regulate
a. Users are encouraged to do more research in the forum/Internet
b. Do not be hostile to users who post questions which answers could easily be found by a simple search
Please pardon me if the implementation seems alittle slow but I can only do so much on my own. If anyone like to help me with the FAQs, please head over to http://soft.com.sg/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25933
from the feedback, there are 2 things we can try.
1. Improve the usability of the site
a. Organise FAQs
b. Highlight FAQs to make it more obvious
2. User self-regulate
a. Users are encouraged to do more research in the forum/Internet
b. Do not be hostile to users who post questions which answers could easily be found by a simple search
Please pardon me if the implementation seems alittle slow but I can only do so much on my own. If anyone like to help me with the FAQs, please head over to http://soft.com.sg/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25933
slutgarden
New member
but i must say not all new registered soft would be newbies on music. it might be they just discovered this page and signed up.
but through the classifications upon forums, i guess it's up to their own IQ rate of thinking where to put stuffs.
like you don't put your food in the coffee cup and dont drink coffee on your plate dont you?..
maybe the tittle of the forum threads failed to attract certain genres of ideas and questions that they might want to ask or refer to.
with all due respect, i've never seen any much more stupid questions about asking 'what guitar should i buy'...
give me a break.. maybe those are the kids whom their mommy bought them clothes shoes and other stuffs.. and later on, the internet which spoon feeds them 24/7.
there are many soft members here who asks really dumb question at times, the questions that can be searched easily on yahoo or maybe dictionary.com for those really idiotic questions.
but of course there are wikipedia.org to find out more(about guitar models or perhaps from it's orignin. not on how to play) and also i hope softies will pm instead of posting a reply whenever they have some personal stuff to ask another softie on the same thread..
like they are conversing publicy for the sake of it.
no fame and glamour. no offense. but i think it's stupid.
cheers to those who may have this same concern as me ...
let's make this forum more organized, sweet & simple and within a click away.
but through the classifications upon forums, i guess it's up to their own IQ rate of thinking where to put stuffs.
like you don't put your food in the coffee cup and dont drink coffee on your plate dont you?..
maybe the tittle of the forum threads failed to attract certain genres of ideas and questions that they might want to ask or refer to.
with all due respect, i've never seen any much more stupid questions about asking 'what guitar should i buy'...
give me a break.. maybe those are the kids whom their mommy bought them clothes shoes and other stuffs.. and later on, the internet which spoon feeds them 24/7.
there are many soft members here who asks really dumb question at times, the questions that can be searched easily on yahoo or maybe dictionary.com for those really idiotic questions.
but of course there are wikipedia.org to find out more(about guitar models or perhaps from it's orignin. not on how to play) and also i hope softies will pm instead of posting a reply whenever they have some personal stuff to ask another softie on the same thread..
like they are conversing publicy for the sake of it.
no fame and glamour. no offense. but i think it's stupid.
cheers to those who may have this same concern as me ...
let's make this forum more organized, sweet & simple and within a click away.
ya, quick go and fill up my FAQ page.
http://soft.com.sg/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25933
http://soft.com.sg/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25933