Where's the soul in rock and roll?

I think having said some stuff about the local music scene maybe I can go on and talk about what we are missing.

I think that in Singapore when you want to think of a band, usually it’s for entertainment at a pub. There’s nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t make very much for an indie scene. Then you got to examine what kind of a pub scene we have in order to make sense of what music comes out of it. Who is the audience? Expats. (I was going to say “angmohs” but let’s be fair, nowadays not all expats are angmohs.) What do you play to them? Well if those chaps really want to be Singaporean they would be hanging out at your neighbourhood kopitiam, so we can assume they’re not that interested in local culture. So is this a conducive environment to forge original music with a strong Singaporean identity? I dun loveloveloveloving think so.

Now, dun get me wrong. I like pub rock. Pub rock has spawned such songwriting greats like Elvis Costello, Graham Parker and Nick Lowe. But it’s a very rooted, traditional kind of thing, and rather foreign to Singapore. If we get something out of that scene that didn’t need to cater to foreign tastes, well and good. Otherwise, if you want local flavour, you got more of a chance with your getai outfit or your mat rock / death metal set-up.

Then there is indie rock, and there are a lot of people who get together as hobbyists to form bands. I’m sure that there’s something there, there are talented people in Singapore. But can they last? You see all those people who quit their Shenton Way day jobs to pursue music as a career? They make the front pages because everybody thinks that they’re crazy. Is it a financially viable option? No.
Let’s put it this way. Music bands operate on something that is to our PAP government even worse than the lovelovelovelove word. It’s called “welfare”. Ever notice that places like Manchester, which created so much fantastic music 20 years ago, was a rundown place with high unemployment? Ever realised that Detroit became ground zero for house music because it’s a totally loveloveloveloved up place? That’s the problem. Singapore is not loveloveloveloved up enough.

We lack performance venues. We have youth parks, but SCAPE is pretty much let’s say it’s a bit of a joke. Prime land, to be sure, but a concentration camp. Why don’t we have concerts at Hong Lim Park? Why not school halls on weekends? Nirvana showed us 20 years ago that school halls are great venues for rock concerts. The problem is that Singapore is too small, and it’s very very difficult to have concerts in places without ppl complaining. I know that ACDC said that rock and roll ain’t noise pollution but that’s not true.
It’s not true that cities that have high pressure environments cannot come up with good music. Case in point: NYC. So we need to think about what NYC has that we doesn’t. Today, Brooklyn is some kind of a hippie commune where a lot of rich kids use their parent’s money to make indie music. Welfare. Yes, bands need to get funded. Is there a place where we can set up music labs on cheap(er) land so that ppl can work on their stuff? I think that Johor Baru would fit the bill, but a lot of work needs to be done before that happens.

Something that we lack is music journalism. As we all know, journalism is the first draft of history. We don’t have enough fanzines. All we have are blogs that were run by. 20 years ago we had BigO. But, true to its name, it folded before the magazine founders got old. It was a useful platform for bands like the OddFellows, Covent Garden, Padres, Opposition Party and a lot of other familiar names from you +65 compilation to get noticed, and they were putting out stuff in an environment that was harsher than anything that youngsters today have to put up with. Do you know why Singaporeans have to search so long and hard in order to come up with good stuff? Because we don’t have good music magazines who tell us where the good stuff is, to hype up good bands. It would also not be useful if there weren’t good stuff to hype up. But people do have to start talking, start the conversation, start the ball rolling.

And the other thing is that the music scene is not very literate. If you want to talk about what a great band is, what it represents, you have to get people talking about them, talking about what they mean. You need music critics who are willing to devote their time, energy and brain juice to sort the chaff from the wheat. We don’t really have a lot of good music critics. And speaking as somebody who has a Grade 8, even though we have a lot of technically good people, having good taste in music is a different skill. Grade 8s only certify that you know how to play music properly, that you know music theory. You can have a grade 8 and lousy taste in music. You need people discussing – arguing with each other, if necessary – about what makes songs good. And my stand on this matter is precisely the opposite of our poor soft moderators who are sick and tired of bickering that takes place here: arguments are necessary in order for progress to be made.

I know there is this aspect of the Singaporean mentality. Keep your head down and practice your instruments. Don’t think too hard about the vision, the big picture. Words are only words. Anybody who is too good with the language is necessarily only hot air, all talk and no substance. I don’t agree at all. I think this attitude is going to cost us dear.

If people need to speculate on whether Michael Stipe has AIDS (no), so be it. If people need to wonder about whether Bob Mould is gay (yes), so be it. If we need a Blur and Oasis to go head to head with each other and slag each other off in an immature and unseemly manner, guys, this is what rock and roll is all about. You need to have bands who polarise opinions, like half of the world thinks that Coldplay are great songwriting geniuses, and the other half thinks that Chris Martin is a pussy whipped faggot. That is great, because in business speak, branding is the story and controversy makes great stories.

It’s a little embarrassing when if you want to make it big in Singapore, you have to do what Stefanie Sun did, which is go to Taiwan, pretend to be Taiwanese, and then make it big in Singapore. As my sergeant would say, lovelovelovelove you understand.
And another thing, the recent general elections have shown that Singapore is politically liberalising. It might be OK to start writing songs that say “lovelovelovelove”the PAP. Just a thought.

On another note, I do not think that academic excellence is necessarily any hindrance to being a rock star. Remember that Iggy Pop was the top student in his high school. FACT. If he were a Singaporean, he would have been the recipient of a government scholarship.
 
I disagree with some of the above points, when i think of a Singaporean band, what comes to mind is a bunch of kids with $$ in their pockets and fancy gear trying to impress the opposite gender trying their best to hold a tune or covering a song only to fail drastically.

This is the general consensus for local music. And. I agree. wooot. I've seen posers prancing around on make shifts stages in shopping malls poorly hopping along to some tune head banging with out of tune guitars and ear rupturing vocals. Too many rich junkies out there nowadays form bands for the wrong reasons. To be cool, to be respected, to get laid blah blah. Wheres the soul in rock n roll? The TS should have named the thread "Wheres the soul in local music" to begin with. Local music probably gets a thumbsdown from 95% of Singaporeans because of these kids. Theres nothing wrong with being an aspiring musician. Many of us are too. But to have standards before presenting your talent is a different story. To keep your head down and practice. Singaporean bands NEED this. Seriously. But this doesnt have to be the case for your whole life. The problem here is knowing when to lift your head up and say, 'I'm ready.' The idea is knowing when you are ready. Hence, timing is the key.

Lets not talk about what makes a band great. Here in Singapore, to find a vocalist whom can hold his own is already uncommon. Too often the local scene finds vocalists singing songs consisting of notes of which they can barely hit. This doesnt apply to the poser teenagers alone mind you. I may sound like a cynic toward local music, but trust me 80% of the forumites feel the same way. We're not talking about bands being great here, we're talking about the basic standard. Let the front man be someone whom can at least hit the appropriate keys. Bare minimum to keep your guitars in tune eh guitarists?

The point about music journalism I've got to agree with you on. It would be a breath of fresh air to know that there are people willing to go ravage through the music scene to siphon out the rare diamonds beneath the junk, presenting to the public local music worth mentioning..basically more than people whom say they give a damn, but rather people whom give a damn and also have the power to change things with their words and writings. It would be interesting to see a local music magazine or even a small column in the daily newspapers constantly devoted to the change in the local music scene.

All that being said is there no hope for local music? Not at all. There are many great local musicians hiding in pubs, catering to the underground scenes etc. What is required is to bring these people into the open and replace the annoying punks posing about. There has undeniably been significant improvement since the govt started devoting a wee bit more attention to the arts, and local stars such as Jack and Rai becoming more and more noticed.

In all this talk, will this put the soul into our music? Hardly. Not unless you step back from this hectic world and busy environment will you find the necessary time and effort to write music infused with essence that bleeds from the heart. Technology and globalization has diminished the conditions for musicians to truly write soulful music. A few songs may pop by now and then, but are quickly lost. How ironic is it that music in the 70s and 80s was so much more impactful then todays garbage you hear on the radio. We have moved on to the age of technology and bypassed the primitive periods of the past. Efficiency has produced more harm than good in our world today. The music scene has not been spared either with the induction of autotune. I sometimes seriously wonder if instruments are obsolete or no longer required to create the sort of music we hear nowadays.

Wheres the soul in rock and roll? Wheres the soul in music? It has been consumed by the advancement of mankind entering the age of technology.
 
I disagree with some of the above points, when i think of a Singaporean band, what comes to mind is a bunch of kids with $$ in their pockets and fancy gear trying to impress the opposite gender trying their best to hold a tune or covering a song only to fail drastically.

heh. not hard at all to find those kids, even in soft. secondary sch age with gibsons n fenders. and prs and gretch and blahblah. with pedalboards costing more than my whole room. talk gear, buy gear, sell gear. wonder which bank they robbed. or have they got atm machines at home. really. i wonder where these kids got their money from. not surprised if half of them (us) in gear gallery are students.

yes im ranting.
 
local music is mediocre because we have a culture of taking something we like, ripping it off and using the card of "influence" as some sort of defence. sure nothing is new under the sun, but much of local music is just a lesser version of some famous band. or it's just boring. anyone who defends local music as a whole is probably in it, have low standards or they just lie to themselves. i find it pretty sad. b-quartet is awesome though.

however, you have to keep in mind that we are a young country, and much of our lifespan has been spent trying to build a stable economy and country as a whole. the arts have always been put on the backseat. and it is very understandable in the sense that we were and are surrounded by neighbors who would destroy us if their own countries weren't in such a mess. most of singapore has been taught that money is the only thing matters. as a result, most people don't really care for other "unimportant" things like art, or using their brain for things that don't get them something tangible - money.

singapore wants so desperately to be some classic capital while implementing policies that only make us radical realists. we are much like a pretty book(designed by some angmoh dude) not worth reading, unless you look at the size 2 font hidden in some corner of the book. even that is crass and confused sometimes.

to conclude. this problem so to speak has way deeper roots, it has nothing to do with a select few individuals. it has to do with society and the way we were brought up. people are opening up now, so just give it time. crying about rain won't make it stop, it just makes your eyes water.
 
Last edited:
Thats why i wanna Kudos and salute FGL brother,how many people upon reaching 29 yrs old, sell away their pedals amd guitars? and at age 39 hang up the guitar they loved the most on the wall,never to touch it again? a lot. The skilled player after a while get rusty and that's it, the passion gone forever. How many can go into the 40s and still rock out? FGL,u deserves our respects!

Thanks for the kudos bro ... I'm 24 now. :))
 
however, you have to keep in mind that we are a young country, and much of our lifespan has been spent trying to build a stable economy and country as a whole. the arts have always been put on the backseat. and it is very understandable in the sense that we were and are surrounded by neighbors who would destroy us if their own countries weren't in such a mess. most of singapore has been taught that money is the only thing matters. as a result, most people don't really care for other "unimportant" things like art, or using their brain for things that don't get them something tangible - money.

Let's not forget one important reason why you youngsters don't have better role models. In the 70s and 80s, the government was not only not supportive of local music, it was also often downright hostile towards it. In the 70s, if you had long hair or a tattoo, or played in a band, you were a second class citizen. People thought that you were a delinquent or a drug addict. I think I saw signs that said that people lining up to get served at a government office will get served last if they had long hair. They could withdraw the approval for shows at the last minute. I think that the arts in Singapore really suffered for it. Some of the older people said that Singapore had a budding band scene in the 60s. So let's not talk about "because we have to defend our poor island, we can't devote too much time and energy to the arts". Because we probably had a better music scene during the Konfrontasi than we do now.

Then again it was a time when you were so marginalised if you were a member of the opposition party. You had death metal bands naming themselves after horrific things. Some called themselves Obituary, others Napalm Death. We had one band calling themselves Opposition Party.

I don't really think that Indonesia and Malaysia are out to destroy us. And neither do I think that they are totally loveloveloveloved up. And I think that sometimes our security vulnerabilities are exascerbated by the unseemly attitude that we have towards those countries.

OK, things changed in the 90s, and it appears that the government's attitude has changed somewhat. But let's not forget what things were like in the past, and how you got to where you are today. Let's not forget a period in our history that the arts were whitewashed.
 
Thread is turning quite into something sensible and seriousness here. Really glad to see all the constructive criticisms and inputs here. There is some form of music journalism going on but its not catching on. I for one like to highlight and advertise a little here :)

I'm an independent media journalist who has contributed to some websites and some societies and have worked on getting media coverage for local music events. Do check out my channel at: www.youtube.com/drumsolo86
As well as blog: http://sglocalliveacts.blogspot.com

I work on getting videos/photos/interviews as well as insightful write-ups into the lives of musicians. If any performing band or society or musician with any local music event/competition/gig that would like to be featured, I'll be more than happy to have a look and come down and do what I can. Meanwhile, you ought to check out some of the bands on my Youtube channel, there are certainly good music talents in town and more waiting to be unravelled.

IT WOULD HELP GREATLY IF YOU COULD SUBSCRIBE. I put up new content esp on the Youtube channel regularly!
 
anyone who defends local music as a whole is probably in it, have low standards or they just lie to themselves.

I don't get it. You're on a Singaporean MUSIC forum, and from this I can assume you are a musician right? If you're a musician most likely you'll be playing music, in Singapore, and as such you're as much a part of the scene as any Singaporean musician.
Unless of course you're a bedroom musician. I'm sorry but that line was so paradoxical that it bordered on the ridiculous.
 
Blank, here's another reason why people defend the local music scene: because there are good bands here. Perhaps you haven't come across them yet.
 
Last edited:
well, ok. some of da point im about to bring out is said by fellow ts here......

as of european music mostly, each of da bands have interesting stories to tell. for eg.;
1) there band member characters (eg. kurt cobain)
2) how da band is formed (eg. nirvana)
3) where they lovelovelove from (eg. seattle)
4) the place they live in (eg. live in a van)
5) their influences (eg. black sabbath)
6) their labels (eg. subpop)
7) type of music (eg. grunge)
8) their character (eg. love drugs)
n etc etc etc.....

but here in sg, most bands have da same story to tell. im not saying sg bands r boring, coz im in a band too! in fact, all of my friends bands r interesting but not in da european way, but in da sg way.

further more, those old skol bands in sg can survive coz da locals love them....n they love da beatles too! in fact, they support both local n non-local bands coz they have da same mindset, dat is to love rock n roll.

but now, da music genre has widened. from old skol metal (black sabbath) to da numetal (korn). n now most youngster like byonce n justin beiber! so how to change their mindset? muz we rockers change to bcum hip hoppers? no la.....rockers r always rockers, we stay rockers. juz dat we muz have somebody or a body to move n introduce our music to da big audience out there. juz like those hip hop labels advertised there products rigorously.
 
So if you could do me a favour, please pm me some videos of the bands you think can do sg some justice.... how can anyone SUPPORT when the music/band is crap? that's my point. ^^^^^^^^^^

Oh well, I m not a local but have been living in Singapore for 5-6 years. I didn't want to meddle on this issue at first until I read this. But since i m not a local, my stand would be much neutral.
Honestly, I think the local bands are good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir0axhz10tw&feature=related
This is a local band. I admit that its members are my friend but my purpose of posting it here is not to publicise them. I just want to show that Singapore bands are not crap. In fact, please define 'crap'. And define 'good music'. =/
It seems to me that some of the ppl just think that local music is lousy, which sounded much like a prejudice. If you really want to support your own local music, IMHO, you have to bring down that barrier. Maybe by doing so, u will find the soul of the music in local musician better, too.

Feel free to disagree with me. I won't be offended. After all, I am just giving my opinions.
 
I don't get it. You're on a Singaporean MUSIC forum, and from this I can assume you are a musician right? If you're a musician most likely you'll be playing music, in Singapore, and as such you're as much a part of the scene as any Singaporean musician.
Unless of course you're a bedroom musician. I'm sorry but that line was so paradoxical that it bordered on the ridiculous.

im a musician. yes i have played before. the local music scene as a whole is mediocre at best.
elaborate on how this is paradoxical.
 
well, ok. some of da point im about to bring out is said by fellow ts here......

as of european music mostly, each of da bands have interesting stories to tell. for eg.;
1) there band member characters (eg. kurt cobain)
2) how da band is formed (eg. nirvana)
3) where they lovelovelove from (eg. seattle)

Nirvana is not from Europe. If you want to call dem ang moh go ahead but Europe is wrong.

The thing I dun understand is - we dun have the cool factor. Suppose you were to say that you were chillin' in a council home, people would say yeh dats cool. Council homes is the birthplace of trip hop. Tricky, Massive Attack, many cool bands grew up on council estates.

Now suppose you were to tell them "hey this is the music of the HDB" people will look at you like you're wacko. Even though HDB and council homes are essentially the same thing - government housing. So what's going on here? Check this old Massive Attack - it's all about HDB flats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epgo8ixX6Wo

So why isn't the HDB producing the good shit?

Why is it - you know JAmaica, they live in really shitty environments, the whole place is a slum, nothing ever works, but they managed to give the world reggae. And ppl think that they are cool?

Do we have Singaporeans thinking hard enough about how the system works?
 
Was watching "Do the Right Thing". Some guy uploaded the whole thing on youtube. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeSxk4Ky1-Y&feature=related

Somewhere in the middle, Samuel L Jackson starts reciting a list of great black musicians. (Remember this was 1989 so nobody in the last 20 years is mentioned.) Here is the list:

"Boogie Down Productions, Rob Base, Dana Dane, Marley Marl, Olatunji, Chuck D, Ray Charles, EPMD, EU, Alberta Hunter, Run-D.M.C., Stetsasonic, Sugar Bear, John Coltrane, Big Daddy Kane, Salt-n-Pepa, Luther Vandross, McCoy Tyner, Biz Markie, New Edition, Otis Redding, Anita Baker, Thelonious Monk, Marcus Miller, Branford Marsalis, James Brown, Wayne Shorter, Tracy Chapman, Miles Davis, Force MDs, Oliver Nelson, Fred Wesley, Maceo, Janet Jackson, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, George Clinton, Count Basie, Mtume, Stevie Wonder, Bobby McFerrin, Dexter Gordon, Sam Cooke, Parliament-Funkadelic, Al Jarreau, Teddy Pendergrass, Joe Williams, Wynton Marsalis, Phyllis Hyman, Sade, Sarah Vaughn, Roland Kirk, Keith Sweat, Kool Moe Dee, Prince, Ella Fitzgerald, Dianne Reeves, Aretha Franklin, Bob Marley, Bessie Smith, Whitney Houston, Dionne Warwick, Steel Pulse, Little Richard, Mahalia Jackson, Jackie Wilson, Cannonball AND Nat Adderley, Quincy Jones Marvin Gaye, Charles Mingus AND Marion Williams."

Do you feel very sian when you go through the list? I recognise around half of the names and those guys are fantastic musicians.

Guys, this is what we're up against.
 
name me some that you think are good.

Why the lovelovelovelove do you want to defend an opinion like that? What kind of kick do you get out of doing that?

Yeh I know I just talked about how good ppl from other countries are but that's different, I'm pointing out what ppl can aspire towards.
 
elaborate on how this is paradoxical.

Isn't my post already an elaboration of what I stated?
Ok let me break it down for you.

anyone who defends local music as a whole is probably in it, have low standards or they just lie to themselves.

First word: Anyone.
Infinitive, and as such is an extreme generalisation which in turn is most likely false. 'Anyone can sing' = what about those who cannot project their voice? As such, an infinitive such as this is not wise to use an argument.

Second phrase: Is probably in it.
As I pointed out, you're in it as well. As long as you're on Singaporean soil, or are a Singaporean, and in any way has any sort of proficiency in ANY instrument, and is contributing to the music culture in Singapore, is involved in this statement. THIS is the paradox, simply cause you're shooting yourself in the foot as well.

Third phrase: Have low standards.
Singaporeans have low standard? Please the irony in that man! Look at all those 'bred' from young pianists, musicians forced with a ruler on their back to sit straight, practice scales 8 hours a day, they have low standards as well? Singaporeans tend to be critical of plenty of things.

Fourth phrase: They just lie to themselves.
I wouldn't know anything about that. Some people may just prefer local music as a whole, or just wants to support their fellow countrymen. I can't comment nor judge on something as personal as people lieing to themselves to take comfort in a certain fact/truth about local music.

All in all there are plenty of bad bands in Singapore, and plenty of good ones as well. It's all about exposure. Don't forget those US/British bands that are household names are just a tiny pool of the bands who made it. There's plenty who never made the cut, fulltime musicians who perform as a job, only at small localities and never become big in many places. Same as in SG, only difference is we KNOW which are the bands that flopped, and which didn't.
 
Back
Top