Where's the soul in rock and roll?

[AzNjT]

Oh well, I m not a local but have been living in Singapore for 5-6 years. I didn't want to meddle on this issue at first until I read this. But since i m not a local, my stand would be much neutral.
Honestly, I think the local bands are good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir0axhz10tw&feature=related
This is a local band. I admit that its members are my friend but my purpose of posting it here is not to publicise them. I just want to show that Singapore bands are not crap. In fact, please define 'crap'. And define 'good music'. =/
It seems to me that some of the ppl just think that local music is lousy, which sounded much like a prejudice. If you really want to support your own local music, IMHO, you have to bring down that barrier. Maybe by doing so, u will find the soul of the music in local musician better, too.

Feel free to disagree with me. I won't be offended. After all, I am just giving my opinions.

Nah man, it's all good, previously I said that Great bands have great material and put on KILLER shows, that's my definition of a Good band.

Good music doesnt have to be technically insane or any of that, we all know this. Its about the way the music makes you feel, and which relates to my point above, Song writing and Live shows. Good band = Good material AND Killer shows.

I mean "literally" Killer Live shows, don't know how else to phrase it. Most of the time, there's that ONE person (or more) in a band that just ruins the entire performance.

Good bands are tight sonically. A band that brings THE SHit to the stage and Owns it.

I like ur mate's band
It makes me smile! fan power +1

I'm here wanting to be proven wrong. The more the merrier

I think what I'm trying to say is that when friends decide to put a band together and write material to put out to the world, I would expect nothing less than PERFECTION.

It's fine if we're just doing our own thing and not entirely making videos or writing songs that are meant to be performed to people at a certain level. But when the goal IS to gig. I would think that, ANYONE, would want to get their acts together BEFORE taking the stage. But it seems that it's not the case for the Fayul bands. Like superpotato said. These people are in it for the wrong reasons and just ..... Sigh* i dont even know.

Chris "Izzy" Cole layed it down perfectly. He said "Basically, my pursuit of perfection was relentless because I think at that stage, the music deserved that"

 

[blank]

First word: Anyone.
Infinitive, and as such is an extreme generalisation which in turn is most likely false. 'Anyone can sing' = what about those who cannot project their voice? As such, an infinitive such as this is not wise to use an argument.

you missed out the "probably" in my sentence.

Second phrase: Is probably in it.
As I pointed out, you're in it as well. As long as you're on Singaporean soil, or are a Singaporean, and in any way has any sort of proficiency in ANY instrument, and is contributing to the music culture in Singapore, is involved in this statement. THIS is the paradox, simply cause you're shooting yourself in the foot as well.

you're wrong. the paradox would be if i said that all local music was bad and that b-quartet was awesome. never said that.
im guessing what you're trying to say, is that the paradox is that i am technically in the singapore music scene and i am saying that the local music scene as a whole is mediocre. that is not a paradox.

Third phrase: Have low standards.
Singaporeans have low standard? Please the irony in that man! Look at all those 'bred' from young pianists, musicians forced with a ruler on their back to sit straight, practice scales 8 hours a day, they have low standards as well? Singaporeans tend to be critical of plenty of things.

plenty of things(like when the gahmen takes $$), agreed. creativity in music? no way.
also. there is no irony in that.

Fourth phrase: They just lie to themselves.
I wouldn't know anything about that. Some people may just prefer local music as a whole, or just wants to support their fellow countrymen. I can't comment nor judge on something as personal as people lieing to themselves to take comfort in a certain fact/truth about local music.

"or just wants to support their fellow countrymen"
your words not mine

All in all there are plenty of bad bands in Singapore, and plenty of good ones as well. It's all about exposure. Don't forget those US/British bands that are household names are just a tiny pool of the bands who made it. There's plenty who never made the cut, fulltime musicians who perform as a job, only at small localities and never become big in many places. Same as in SG, only difference is we KNOW which are the bands that flopped, and which didn't.

plenty for both bad and good? so you're saying the number is equal? i'm assuming there are at least 100 bands in singapore. where are the 50 awesome bands?
i kid i kid. i'm not that big of an ass, this is just to point out how your entire argument was driven by semantics, taking things out of context and anger.

peace

 

[lokiregnarok]

you missed out the "probably" in my sentence.

Even by adding so, it still doesn't exclude you from "anyone". =/

plenty for both bad and good? so you're saying the number is equal?

Gawd.. u r so calculative. Plenty can be of different amount. No English say they ARE equal, yes?

I just have a question. WHAT is your definition for good? Did you spend anytime watching any of the Stardust videos before? Or have u ever watch any Asian Beat finals? Why are u so persistent in trying to prove that Singapore music sucks? Aren't you a Singaporean musician yourself. Have you no pride in yourself? from what i understand, thats precisely wat godspeed is trying to say.

 

[fgl]

Was watching "Do the Right Thing". Some guy uploaded the whole thing on youtube. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeSxk4Ky1-Y&feature=related

Somewhere in the middle, Samuel L Jackson starts reciting a list of great black musicians. (Remember this was 1989 so nobody in the last 20 years is mentioned.) Here is the list:

"Boogie Down Productions, Rob Base, Dana Dane, Marley Marl, Olatunji, Chuck D, Ray Charles, EPMD, EU, Alberta Hunter, Run-D.M.C., Stetsasonic, Sugar Bear, John Coltrane, Big Daddy Kane, Salt-n-Pepa, Luther Vandross, McCoy Tyner, Biz Markie, New Edition, Otis Redding, Anita Baker, Thelonious Monk, Marcus Miller, Branford Marsalis, James Brown, Wayne Shorter, Tracy Chapman, Miles Davis, Force MDs, Oliver Nelson, Fred Wesley, Maceo, Janet Jackson, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, George Clinton, Count Basie, Mtume, Stevie Wonder, Bobby McFerrin, Dexter Gordon, Sam Cooke, Parliament-Funkadelic, Al Jarreau, Teddy Pendergrass, Joe Williams, Wynton Marsalis, Phyllis Hyman, Sade, Sarah Vaughn, Roland Kirk, Keith Sweat, Kool Moe Dee, Prince, Ella Fitzgerald, Dianne Reeves, Aretha Franklin, Bob Marley, Bessie Smith, Whitney Houston, Dionne Warwick, Steel Pulse, Little Richard, Mahalia Jackson, Jackie Wilson, Cannonball AND Nat Adderley, Quincy Jones Marvin Gaye, Charles Mingus AND Marion Williams."

Do you feel very sian when you go through the list? I recognise around half of the names and those guys are fantastic musicians.

Guys, this is what we're up against.

Whether their record companies bribed DJs to get their music out, or their managers worked their asses off to get these artistes gigs etc ... bottom line is that they had the support of their countrymen to begin with (in various varying degrees).

I dont really see SG radio / TV stations giving local acts a chance, nor do I see mainstream record labels taking a chance on indie acts...

I am constantly reminded of the vibrant scene in the 60s by my musical forefathers ... and I myself expirienced similar exposure during the SG local music revitalized period in the early 90s...

These days, even the band competitions have dried up. The scene is comatose.

Kudos to various organizations like SOFT and (Soft band collection) ... IAMBROKEN - a new up & coming collective, etc for making the effort....

SG bands over FT please .... I 'd love to see the day SG has a gahment ruling that says 1 local band for every 1 FT inport band. I dont care about American Top 40 - I wanna see SG top 100 ...

 

[lokiregnarok]

I like ur mate's band
It makes me smile! fan power +1

Thx man~ =)

I think what I'm trying to say is that when friends decide to put a band together and write material to put out to the world, I would expect nothing less than PERFECTION.

Yes, I agree. I myself expect any performance to be perfection, whether it's me performing or me watching other bands' performances. I think that's why I can't get along with my school bands. Some of its members just wanna perform without practice or with minimum practice. Unless they are prodigies, I don't think the performance will be any good. So whenever they refuse to practice, I just dun perform with them. =/

Anyway, I just wanna say that there are good bands around! Some people may say that good bands are only those who can cut EPs and albums. But it doesn't mean those that can't do so are lousy. =) That's what I feel.

 

[blank]

Even by adding so, it still doesn't exclude you from "anyone". =/

i clearly don't defend local music, so yes it completely excludes me.

Gawd.. u r so calculative. Plenty can be of different amount. No English say they ARE equal, yes?

please learn to read the entire thing before posting.

I just have a question. WHAT is your definition for good? Did you spend anytime watching any of the Stardust videos before? Or have u ever watch any Asian Beat finals? Why are u so persistent in trying to prove that Singapore music sucks? Aren't you a Singaporean musician yourself. Have you no pride in yourself? from what i understand, thats precisely wat godspeed is trying to say.

So according to you, we should have pride in local music just because it's local? Thanks, really.

i really can't believe that this discussion keeps going on but i'm in camp so it all works out.

 

[AzNjT]

@lokiregnarok Exactly

 

[Mobius]

By labelling ourselves as "local music", there is already prejudice. You don hear european or american artiste labelling themselves as local music.

There are plenty of good instrumentalists in Singapore. In fact, most of them are sessionists/ arrangers for the chinese pop music market. There are plenty of good vocalists also, they are also sessionists for back up singers in the chinese pop music market.

Olivia Ong is good, but she was under the radar for the past few years until she went taiwan to develop her career.

It seems people from other countries in the region appreciate our music talent more than us.

So moral of the story: Be a foreign talent in the music industry! =P

 

[soft]

Hi guys, it is good that we are aiming for better but it takes time and effort. By having more people contributing to the 'improving the music scene', we will reach the goal faster.

2 months back, I created a site to feature music made in Singapore. You can listen to some of the tracks http://music412.com/

If you know of any bands/musicians who should be listed on http://music412.com/ , please let them know.

 

[elias1876]

thanks for the link mr admin... I will listen to them later... just a suggestion - maybe you can also partner up with centralcatchment (he/she seems the journalistic type) to feature local events, such as the Retribution Movement Sg's anniversary gig on Sat or feature established local bands as well. thanks

 

[zazin]

Nirvana is not from Europe. If you want to call dem ang moh go ahead but Europe is wrong.

haha....i use da europe word wrongly la......its angmoh la. about da cool factor, how can we make our singapore bands cool? n most importantly, our local radio djs muz play our singapore bands everyday la. but it seems like we get very few airplay. except for da malay radio channel at ria89.7fm. it seems like da dj brother bo is promoting our rock n metal musics on every time da VICIOUS VOLUME starts. i think we can ask his help to promote our songs thru da radio man! correct me if im wrong guyz.

 

[soft]

Which of the following will reach a wider audience?

1. Radio
2. TV
3. Internet

Which of the following have a lower barrier of entry?

1. Radio
2. TV
3. Internet

Which of the following can you showcase your music right now?

1. Radio
2. TV
3. Internet

* Let's not bang our heads on doors that is just not going to open. There's always another door.

 

[lokiregnarok]

So according to you, we should have pride in local music just because it's local? Thanks, really.

Sigh... *shake head*
I cant be bothered by you any longer. You just don't get it. -_-"

pessimism is such a disease..

 

[centralcatchment]

So according to you, we should have pride in local music just because it's local? Thanks, really.

Of course you're going to support local music. Come on.

Who do you see when you look at the loveloveloveloving mirror? Oh yeah, that's right. In your case it's a loveloveloveloving blank. Says it all doesn't it.

What we got here, in the words of John Lennon, is a nowhere man, sitting in his nowhere land singing all his nowhere songs for nobody.

 

[daryl]

"anyone who defends local music as a whole is probably in it, have low standards or they just lie to themselves."

I find it hilarious how people always have to resort to puns while trying to insult blank. You do not know the guy, centralcatchment. Stop being childish. You are probably an adult and I enjoyed reading your posts on this page so please don't do stupid things.

Now, here's my take on the statement, which I agree with on many levels. It is not paradoxical and it irks me, sorry, to let this lie unsettled.

Let's define "anyone who defends local music as a whole" as A.

"A is probably in it, have low standards or they just lie to themselves."

What this statement tries to do is attempt to raise reasons why "anyone would defend local music as a whole", or rather, why A. There are 3 reasons given.

1) "[is] probably in it"
2) "has low standards"
3) "lie to themselves"

Blank is obviously not A because he does not defend local music as a whole. It then follows that the fact that he is part of "it" does not affect the statement in any way because the statement is addressing the problem of why would anyone defend local music as a whole or "Why would A?" The 3 judgements are passed on the group of people who fall under A, of which blank isn't a part.

This is where I think the confusion lies, Godspeed. Just because he is part of "it" does not make him part of A, as there is no implication whatsoever that all people in "it" defend local music as a whole. Also, his status as part of "it" also does not necessarily involve him in having "low standards" or "lying to himself".

Now, why do I agree with his reasons?

Do you guys know what a circlejerk is? Imagine 10 guys standing in a circle, each person jerking the manhood of the guy on their right. That's how I see the pathetic music scene we have here and what I think is blank was trying to say with 1). I will not give examples so just think about it, will you? How many times have you felt obliged to support someone else's band because they might provide you with the same support? How many times have you said "Great show man!" or "your new song is great!" when you didn't really mean it with all your heart?

If someone can honestly and sincerely tell me to the face that he thinks local music as a whole is slightly above neutral in terms of how "good' it is, I would have serious doubts about his standards for music. Let us face it. The fact that a certain band sounds like a version of a US rock band, or pop punk, or indie, or whatever else, does not make them good. It only shows us that they can play their musical instruments up to a certain degree of proficiency and rip off musical ideas from the greats with no individuality at all. Big deal. You sound like Anberlin, omg there is hope for local music. You sound exactly like Guns N Roses, you guys are local rock gods.

Good music, no matter your subjective definition of it, has to touch you. I'm am not dictating my own point of view on the subject of how good music should sound like but rather I am appealing to your own subjective sense of taste. It has to make you go wow this is some good shit I'm in love there is magic in the air. Please do not degrade your sense of taste by listing mediocre bands in your "music you like" page on facebook. You have to be ruthless and judgemental. Also please do not give bands plus points just because they are from your hometown.

Most people, I feel, adopt an entire different mindset when they listen to a local band. They lower their standards. Be honest now, please, do you lower your standards when you listen to local music? Do you think oh they are not that good but they are local and this sounds quite good for a local band. Be honest now, please.

Now for number 3. This is more of a general reason because 1) and 2) both involve self-deception. But I shall elaborate a bit on this.

Like I said earlier, good music, no matter your subjective definition of it, has to touch you. It has to make you go wow this is some good shit I'm in love there is magic in the air. Do we agree on this?

We all know that there are certain bands who are considered to be established and therefore good. Go through the list yourself, please, and add stuff if you want. Tick those you really really really like, as in you would spend a month's salary/ rob/ beg for tickets if you knew it was their last show. Or if their music has moved you greatly. I have to emphasize, BE HONEST, now.

LIST
Electrico
Astreal
The Suns
The Great Spy Experiment
The Observatory
Plainsunset
Vertical Rush
Lunarin
Typewriter
Serenaide
I Am David Sparkle
West Grand Boulevard
A Vacant Affair
Caracal
Ronin
The Fire Fight
Allura
B-Quartet


Done?

Now tick those you would say are good.

Am I right to suppose that there is a discrepancy?

If good music is defined as music which really moves you, don't you think that by including numerous others in the list of "good" you are degrading your sense of taste and promoting mediocrity? If you still think you can say a band is good because they sound "ok la, not bad. quite catchy here and there. drummer can double pedal. guitarist can shred. bassist doesn't just play root notes. lyrics not bad. the singer sound like angmoh with his fake accent. and the keyboardist quite chio", I have probably wasted my breath on you, which I do not especially regret, as I still hold hopes that other people will read this and wake up.

People who know who I am should know that I do not say what I say without first listening to local music. I have listened to a lot of them. I have bought cds, gone for concerts and trauled through countless myspaces. But that was when I was younger and now that I have checked out almost everything I can get my hands on, I feel I can confidently say that my judgements are not based on just a few select shitty bands.

Of course I am not saying that ALL local music sucks. I am saying that most of them are either incredibly mediocre or depressingly horrible. The handful of good stuff is just that; a handful. The fact remains that local music AS A WHOLE is really quite bad. So anyone who defends it as a whole, I can safely say, needs to think about his reasons for doing so in an honest manner. Self-deception is addictive.

 

[blank]

wish john wrote a song about raging when logic won him. but that never happened, apparently.

 

[blank]

also. daryl so smart

 

[xfigox]

LIST
Electrico
Astreal
The Suns
The Great Spy Experiment
The Observatory
Plainsunset
Vertical Rush
Lunarin
Typewriter
Serenaide
I Am David Sparkle
West Grand Boulevard
A Vacant Affair
Caracal
Ronin
The Fire Fight
Allura
B-Quartet

People always tend to refer to these lot of established bands when referring to local music, and its getting tiresome, please check out some new bands if you have the time.

Anyways, I've been listening to this new song from a local band ALOT and I think its a great song:

A Town in Fear - Never Concede

 

[evodia]

i agree with xfigox

its time for a new,fresh and heavy bands.. i admit that those bands being quoted are good,
but there are many bands out there which have alot of potentials and really talented,
i read somewhere in the post, which i agree.. there are not many good gig venues in singapore (without being complained)
and i really like the idea of school halls on weekends, but do you think moe allow? "bleh!"

 

[AzNjT]

Thank you daryl.