Specifications (Keyboard)

[sunshinesarah]

Hi all

I'm horrible at these tech stuff. Just need some interpretation. If the following specs are offered:

L/MONO, R Outputs, L/MONO, R Aux. Inputs, Headphones, MIDI
IN/OUT/ THRU, TO HOST, USB, Assignable Foot Pedal x 4, AC IN

Would that be able to mean that I can plug it into a hi-fi set, and have stereo output via the speakers, which are 30W x 2? Or is it just restricted to Midi?

sarah.

 

[Cheez]

What type of hi-fi do you have? What kind of inputs?

You can connect - no problem. The plugs may not be the same, which means you'll probably need an adapter to make sure your wires are able to plug into both your keyboard and the hi-fi. I believe most hi-fi are RCA plugs. Keyboards use 1/4" phono plugs.

But do consider getting a pair of monitor speakers. It will sound better. After getting a keyboard with good piano and keyboard sound, it will be a waste to run the sound out through hi-fi speakers.

M-audio has recently come up with some cheap monitor speakers. I'm not sure how good they are. Maybe others can give their comments here. The link: http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.list&ID=studiomonitors

 

[sunshinesarah]

amazing. how do you guys keep track of every thread?

I wasn't thinking of connecting hi fi speakers to the keyboard as I was thinking of how to get music INTO the keyboard.

The P250 apparently has this function that allows you to slow down songs n stuff for practice. So basically was wondering if I may either be able to play my CDs/MP3s simultaneously on the P250 speakers, or record it directly onto the P250, and have it slow down the piece when I'm playing so that I can practise either alongside it - and also carry out the play-stop-rewind-play-stop functions of your walkman when you first started out practising

 

[soft]

Re: Specifications

Would that be able to mean that I can plug it into a hi-fi set, and have stereo output via the speakers, which are 30W x 2? Or is it just restricted to Midi?

hey sunshinesarah, you have confused us with this part. i also thought you want to play back the keyboard sound via a hi-fi set.

i dont think the P250 can do audio recording.

the "function that allows you to slow down songs" could be refering to the onboard sequencer which records MIDI information.

* welcome to the world of computer music jargon
* recommed you to get a copy of Keyboard mag at Borders.

 

[Cheez]

James is right. The slow down function in the P250 is basically for the on-board sequencing function - which is basically very limited as well.

The only keyboards that allow you to record audio into them are those with sampling functions - these workstations are not cheap and I don't think those are the ones you are looking for. Also, sampling into keyboards are very limited due to RAM limitations. I don't think they can record a whole song - only short phrases.

If you're thinking about playing together with a CD, the cheapest way (which I did) was to use a pair of earphones for the CD and then use a pair of headphones over that from the keyboard. The headphones cupped over the earphones. You can hear both at the same time - the music and your playing. So you don't have to buy a mixer.

Slow down function is a little tricky. When you slow the tempo, you usually also alter the pitch. Unless you use software, which means you'll have to record the whole song into your PC. Hardware samplers that have this function may not have the memory to record an entire song.

 

[sunshinesarah]

when you say it can't record a whole song I'm assuming you mean like a WMA or MP3 or WAV file or sthg? But it shouldn't have any problem recording the entire MIDI right?

I've also read somewhere in the reviews that the USB isn't particularly friendly for MIDI transfers to and from computers. Do you know if that's true? Not that it's important now since I'm not about to venture into mixing or sequencing midi tones - at least not for the next 6 mths to a yr, not till I get back my piano "groove" so to speak, but I'd still like to experiment, and just wondering what the limitations of the Yamaha is in terms of "doing other things besides having the piano feel"

I'll most likely still gun for one that's as close to the piano as I can get, but I'm curious as to what I can or cannot do with it from a user point of view. The Yamaha sales guy isn't very helpful (in terms of knowledge), and just reading specifications isn't very useful either....

any user-based info you have would be really appreciated

 

[Cheez]

You record (or sequence) midi by playing on the keyboard. You can also import midi files into the keyboard. Your initial question about hifi recording into the P250 is not possible. You cannot convert audio into midi - at least not without very specialised software and even with that, it is very limited.

I have no experience with direct USB connection. I use a dedicated USB midi interface which has no problems. The biggest worry about connecting to computers is latency (ie the time lag between pressing a key and the sound coming out from the speakers). You can try it out - if the latency is unacceptable with a direct USB connection, you can always buy a USB midi interface which is not that expensive. Sound coming out directly from keyboards has zero latency. In midi with PC, there's always latency but can be reduced to near zero.

I know reading specs can be confusing particularly if you're not familiar with the terms they use. Even worse, different manufacturers use different terms to mean the same thing. Marketing gimmick. Don't worry - we'll help you out here if there's anything unclear. Unfortunately, the guy at Yamaha isn't very clear on many things. That's my experience as well.

 

[iansoh]

the direct USB connection for midi signals is merely a built-in usb midi interface. i forsee no difference in performance from that of an external midi interface.

 

[sunshinesarah]

There were 2 reviews I got off it re the USB:

================================

The best grand piano sound of any digital instruments on the market. Great Church Organ, Chorus, Digital Piano, not impressive strings. Great internal amplifier and speakers, perfectly sufficient for use at home. Don't get me wrong. If all your need is a great grand piano with some fine additional sounds, this may be the best instrument you can buy. The Grand Piano sounds and feels the best of all instruments of this kind on the market and I believe I've tried them all! However, there are some problems, too. First, unlike most competitors, P250 is totally non-upgradable. No expansion boards, no extra memory capabilities. No hard drive, no memory cards Internal memory capacity of the P250 is miserable by today's standards. The built-in synthesizer is very basic, good for beginners only. USB port on P250 is the old, slow v. 1.1. My outmost concern is as follows: I own a new 64-bit computer system. As you may know, 64-bit Windows provides support for up to 128GB of RAM and up to 16 terabytes of virtual memory, which in turn makes it an ideal system for sampling-based music production. The problem is, Yamaha does not have 64-bit MIDI and USB drivers, thus rendering their instruments incompatible with 64-bit computing. My Conclusion: This is the best-sounding and best-feeling digital grand piano on the market today. If this is all you need, by all means buy it!

=================

Yes if you want everything in a top of the line digital grand piano, then this is the item for you. Since getting one, i am very happy with the unit. If you want to do good sound record quality, then make sure that you also get Sonar 2.2 program, & a M-audio 66 break out box with serial connection (usb sucks) it can record multi tracks & MIDI at the same time. It is portable, but at 66 lbs a bit big. Software for MIDI connection great and quick. Speakers very nice at loudest setting. This is a must have.

==================

What would that mean?

Right now all I want to do is to be able to move and save the files onto my notebook....I guess that would be useful for sequencing too in the future since that seems the better alternative - so I guess the ability to save onto a notebook or hard disk would be necessary?

 

[sunshinesarah]

Oh well, while we're at it, what would the following refer to?

Recorder 16 tracks, 150,000 notes, max. 224 songs ==> 224 MIDI songs, each song with multiple instruments, or 224 single instrument songs? If the P250 is reputed to not have much space then isn't 224 songs a lot? Not that I'm complaining...but just wondering. And if there really is a lack of memory space, can I just get an external hard disk and farm out stuff there? But then again. Hmm. Would that affect playback after that?

Effects Variation/Insertion effect x 123 types ==> What might that be?

Polyphony Under what circumstances might we need 64 vs 128?

come to think of it - is there a "keyboard for dummies" book somewhere that I could refer to?

Soft - did a more complete check out of the Keyboard Mag. I still catch no bola

I know reading specs can be confusing particularly if you're not familiar with the terms they use. Even worse, different manufacturers use different terms to mean the same thing. Marketing gimmick. Don't worry - we'll help you out here if there's anything unclear.

as you can see, I'm taking you guys up on the offer. Thanks so much This blur sotong truly appreciates it!!

 

[lowjk]

>> USB port on P250 is the old, slow v. 1.1

The USB port on the P250 is used for transmission of MIDI data only.
It is fast enough to transmit 128 channels of midi without problems.
That is because although USB 1.1 is slow but midi is S L O W E R.

But you would run into problems if you want to record 24/96 audio on USB 1.1

Most musical instruments (as opposed to audio interface) are still using the USB 1.1 for midi data.

>> Yamaha does not have 64-bit MIDI and USB drivers

Don't worry. Edirol also has released 64 bits driver. It's unlikely that Yamaha would want to lose out to a competitior.

You may also want to try out Edirol 64bit drivers to see if they work for the Yamaha (* I use a Alesis Nanosynth but Alesis did not develop any XP drivers for the Nanosynth; I had to use a Roland SC880 Serial driver for the Alesis)

Alternatively, you could get a Midi interface with a 64 bit driver.

>> M-audio 66 break out box with serial connection (usb sucks) it can record multi tracks & MIDI at the same time

USB 2.0 can record audio & midi at the same time.
Edirol has a couple of 24/96 audio interfaces based on USB 2.0
But given the choice, I would chose a firewire interface over a USB interface for audio recording.

 

[Cheez]

Regarding the first review: I'm afraid you can't trust his review. And I doubt he "tried them all" as he claimed. Because if he did, he will find that Yamaha piano sounds is far behind many others including Roland. The best piano in the P250 (the 3 velocity layered piano) is far from superior. You yourself heard it and mentioned that it sounds unrealistic in the higher notes. Most people get the P250 not for the sound but for the touch.

Secondly, there's hardly any USB 2.0 midi interface out in the market (maybe except those that comes with audio like Edirol). That's because USB 1.1 is sufficient and fast enough for midi signals. I've also got no idea what he meant by 64-bit midi. He may be talking about audio drivers. But the best way to get sounds into a PC is always through a soundcard, most of which will come with 64-bit drivers. And (others may correct me if I'm wrong here) - the USB interface in the P250 is not for audio but only for midi.

Got to get back to work. I'll reply your next post when I get back...

 

[Cheez]

Oh, lowjk beat me to answering the post!!!

 

[soft]

sunshinesarah, you must understand the difference between recording MIDI and recording AUDIO.

In layman term, recording MIDI means the computer remembers what you played. But it does not capture the actual audio. For example, you play a C chord. The computer will note that down as

Time / Note / Duration / Velocity
00:01:00 / C5 / 00:04:00 / 100
00:01:00 / E5 / 00:04:00 / 100
00:01:00 / G5 / 00:04:00 / 100

It records the sequence. thus the term - Sequencer.

These MIDI sequence are very small file. About 40kb each for a pop song with all the instrument sequence.

As these are all still in computer data, you can edit the notes, duration, dynamics and anything within the sequencer. Oh, you can even change sounds.

Recording Audio on the other hand is completely different. Think of it as a tape recorder. Yes, the old days where tapes were the rage. Ok, say you record a piano with a tape recorder, there is nothing much you can do to modify the performance in post. Yes, you can splice tape, add compressor or ride the fader but nothing close to what MIDI offers.

MIDI was based on very very old technology. Anyone here knows Intel 8088? ha.ha...

 

[lowjk]

MIDI was based on very very old technology. Anyone here knows Intel 8088? ha.ha...

I still remember learning basic assembly lang on the 6502.
That makes me very very old too.

 

[Cheez]

Nice explanation, James!

Sarah, for polyphony, 64 notes is OK most of the time. But we need to be very careful about how manufacturers explain it - many times we get duped.

If the sound has only 1 waveform, then pressing one key will generate one note. In many synthesizers, a sound can be a combination of a number of waveforms. In this case, pressing 1 key will generate more than 1 sound although the sound are generated at the same instance.

For the P250 3-layered piano sound, they are not very clear on the makeup of their samples. But they have release samples (ie the sound of decay when one release a key in a piano). In this case, pressing and releasing 1 key will generate 2 notes (1 note is the main sample, one when you release the key - both will sound when you release since the first sound also have a slight decay). If they had in other samples (like string resonance etc), then pressing 1 key will generate more than 2 sounds. In this case, playing this 3-layered piano will quickly reach 128 note polyphony. When you layer more sounds, like piano + strings, the number of notes that can be played will also be affected.

64 notes polyphony is sufficient in most cases even when you layer 2 instruments - unless you play really complicated parts (ie lots of notes) or if your instrument is multi-layered, then you can run out of polyphony. Especially so for sound like the 3-layered piano of the P250.

 

[sunshinesarah]

So does 128 polyphony then mean that at any one time frame e.g. a second snapshot, I can have 128 sounds simultaneously playing?

Btw, what about this whole idea of Effects Variation/Insertion effect x 123 types? What's that?

 

[Cheez]

Yes, 128 polyphony = 128 sounds at one instance. Just know that "sound" does not equal to "number of instruments".

As for the effects variation thing, I've got no idea. Need to read in context. Where is that phrase taken from?

 

[qfactor]

In a quick assumption, the Effects part would mean that you'd have lots of variations of reverb, delay, chorus, etc to play with.

But as I mentioned in my other post, have a look at the Clavinova CVP series. May be the kind of digital piano you are looking for!
Also comes with built in speakers, so no need external amp/speakers.

Ciao!

QF

So does 128 polyphony then mean that at any one time frame e.g. a second snapshot, I can have 128 sounds simultaneously playing?

Btw, what about this whole idea of Effects Variation/Insertion effect x 123 types? What's that?

 

[Cheez]

I think she also wants portability.