Singapore Bands: READ THIS.
- Thread starter azlyjacaz
- Start date
khaninawatsibai
Banned
the foul languages are already being filtered while u type. whatz the big fuss
HeartRockSingapore
New member
azlyjacaz said:
Illogical as it may, firstly there is no need for you to be so upset. It's their loss not yours. I'm with you insofar as fair valuation of bands. The point is they have as much rights to ask for payment as others who pay to play or play for free. You reserved the rights to use them or not to use them.
guitarman78
New member
Conclusion ... just play and be happy ... unless you are some kind of high profile band in demand that people will travel from Boon Lay to Pasiris to Watch you ....
Please do not compare Singapore music industry to US or UK or Japan or HK .... the scene is small and we all know it. Allow the scene to grow, there is no point complaining and yet not making a difference.
The market demand is not enough for organisers to be paying every band handsomely, of course musicians are underpaid.
Let talk about something more practical. How do you want the organiser to pay you to play for a 30min set? Judging from band experience? Judging from popularity level? $100 per band? $1000 per band?
A restaurant waiter probably earns $7/hr ... let's say fine dining.
An Engineer probably earns $13/hr ... just average.
A Department head probably earns maybe $18 an hour.
How much do you think they pay a band for a 30min set?
An Amatuer Band?
A band that has been around and heard?
The Current hot Favourite?
Please do not compare Singapore music industry to US or UK or Japan or HK .... the scene is small and we all know it. Allow the scene to grow, there is no point complaining and yet not making a difference.
The market demand is not enough for organisers to be paying every band handsomely, of course musicians are underpaid.
Let talk about something more practical. How do you want the organiser to pay you to play for a 30min set? Judging from band experience? Judging from popularity level? $100 per band? $1000 per band?
A restaurant waiter probably earns $7/hr ... let's say fine dining.
An Engineer probably earns $13/hr ... just average.
A Department head probably earns maybe $18 an hour.
How much do you think they pay a band for a 30min set?
An Amatuer Band?
A band that has been around and heard?
The Current hot Favourite?
khaninawatsibai
Banned
itz just simple understanding. if ur made for the "job" then get paid if u just wanna get to the rest of the crowd u gotta do some "interviews" first n then u can finally get a "job" n u get ur pay. if ur worth the money u'll b paid if not then work on it bt dont demand pay when ur not evn on the job yet.
madmonkeykungfu
New member
if the organiser is organising a free gig, then bands should not much expectations on getting paid. However if the organiser is some venue like a pub or something, in which a band would or might contribute to drawing in patrons, then at least share some of the night's profit or give some sort of allowance.
money or no money, only the real hardworking ones can stand the test of time. Seen so many bands come and go in a flash.
money or no money, only the real hardworking ones can stand the test of time. Seen so many bands come and go in a flash.
turbochicken
New member
right right. credit to both sides.
bottom line: it's just some angry organiser. ignore him and it'll pass.
and carry on carry on.
bottom line: it's just some angry organiser. ignore him and it'll pass.
and carry on carry on.
The main purpose of this topic that I brought forward isnt to question the rights of amateur bands with regards to payment for their performance in a particular gig.
It is however to question the relevance and logicality of whether such amateur bands who have yet to build a strong fan base or be regconised for their music should be allowed payment.
This topic is a mean to get my message across to new bands that with this attitude, both the band and the local scene will not go far.
The band refuses to perform because money or any incentives is not given and thus by refusing, they lose themselves an opportunity to get gig experiences.
The local scene will then have no chance to hear what this band is all about. They lose one band and if every other new bands were like them, then the local scene will remain stagnant and will not grow.
This serves as an advice to amateur bands that not everything is to be taken for granted.
I do not speak for myself because if I do I wouldn't even have bothered to post this thread anyways. Like HeartRockSingapore said, it's their loss not mine.
Fortunately this issue is a minority. Well, somebody has to make a stand in order for the local scene to be heard and improved.
It is however to question the relevance and logicality of whether such amateur bands who have yet to build a strong fan base or be regconised for their music should be allowed payment.
This topic is a mean to get my message across to new bands that with this attitude, both the band and the local scene will not go far.
The band refuses to perform because money or any incentives is not given and thus by refusing, they lose themselves an opportunity to get gig experiences.
The local scene will then have no chance to hear what this band is all about. They lose one band and if every other new bands were like them, then the local scene will remain stagnant and will not grow.
This serves as an advice to amateur bands that not everything is to be taken for granted.
I do not speak for myself because if I do I wouldn't even have bothered to post this thread anyways. Like HeartRockSingapore said, it's their loss not mine.
Fortunately this issue is a minority. Well, somebody has to make a stand in order for the local scene to be heard and improved.
unsane
Member
likewise,there will be bands who are willing to take a stand and not participate in dodgy gigs with bad organising and no pay involved.
the local scene is fcked enough as it is because of the hopeless cheapskate mentality that pervades the scene. pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
look to voideck music as an example,those guys know how to organise a gig properly. the kids who organised "the gathering" in 2003..didnt think they could do it,but they pulled it off.
negative example? look in the mirror probably. many cant tell their head from their ass let alone organise a gig properly.
fgl
Well-known member
Many years ago I used to do totally free gigs for NKF...many many times...some gigs even had Art Fazil, Othman & other artistes performin for free.... after the developments ...how man?
I have performed for other freebie BIG gigs as well e.g. some of the big radio station shows (you know who they are), Sharity land etc etc....
I have played freebies for religious organizations etc many many times...
MY POINT? - Coming back to NKF again... sometymes you wonder whether an organizer or organization really has "no budget" or does want to pay bands at all & keep the profits?
No black & white / just a mass of grey - we as bands especially expirienced "working" ones must ascertain if a freebie / charity or proft sharing gig - whatever the terms suits what we are looking for in terms of renumeration.
8)
I have performed for other freebie BIG gigs as well e.g. some of the big radio station shows (you know who they are), Sharity land etc etc....
I have played freebies for religious organizations etc many many times...
MY POINT? - Coming back to NKF again... sometymes you wonder whether an organizer or organization really has "no budget" or does want to pay bands at all & keep the profits?
No black & white / just a mass of grey - we as bands especially expirienced "working" ones must ascertain if a freebie / charity or proft sharing gig - whatever the terms suits what we are looking for in terms of renumeration.
8)
Giantballz
New member
Read the whole topic and thinks azlyjacaz has a good point and those bands deserved every word he said.
punchliners
New member
He(azlyjacaz) has his rights to the point and so do the bands or whoever disagree have their rights to the point.
But how the point is being put across is important for both parties. Although we are just typing words, this website/forum that have been created for us should be respected. You dont use this space to discriminate anyone and if you have a point to prove, do it on a personal page like a blog or something.
It doesnt matter what's your(azlyjacaz) purpose of starting this thread but maybe you could have put across your message in a tactful or calm manner.
But how the point is being put across is important for both parties. Although we are just typing words, this website/forum that have been created for us should be respected. You dont use this space to discriminate anyone and if you have a point to prove, do it on a personal page like a blog or something.
It doesnt matter what's your(azlyjacaz) purpose of starting this thread but maybe you could have put across your message in a tactful or calm manner.
penta-tonic
New member
well. yeah azlyjacaz i totally agree with your point tho it wasnt too nicely put across but i guess the payment thing separates the wheat from the chaff. those who truly love music wouldnt necessarily do it for the money. if they were passionate enough den the reward of gigging would be sufficient. so we can truly see who are those who are just the bluffs.
the reason why this thread or the thread starter has not been banned is because it is a topic worth discussing. since the thread starter had obliged to edit his profanities, here is my take on this topic.
Bands must be paid!!! That is the only way the industry can move forward positively.
We use the payment as a mean to gauge the commitment level from all parties.
If the organiser is able to factor in payment, this means that they have think through the whole business plan and will make sure they try to succeed.
Likewise for the band, if they receive payment, they will be committed to put up a good show.
By doing everything at the lowest denominator, meaning having "cannot even save myself" organisers and "i just want to jam" bands will definitely not help promote the local music industry. In fact, it WILL kill the whole industry.
Bands must be paid!!! That is the only way the industry can move forward positively.
We use the payment as a mean to gauge the commitment level from all parties.
If the organiser is able to factor in payment, this means that they have think through the whole business plan and will make sure they try to succeed.
Likewise for the band, if they receive payment, they will be committed to put up a good show.
By doing everything at the lowest denominator, meaning having "cannot even save myself" organisers and "i just want to jam" bands will definitely not help promote the local music industry. In fact, it WILL kill the whole industry.
WiCkeD_PuSsYCaT
New member
Bands have the right to ask whether or not they are getting paid for the gig.
Organisers also have the right as to whether or not they are willing to pay the bands.
But wouldn't it be nice if all bands could receive some sort of incentive/ compensation in one way or another for their efforts? Be it monetary, a free drink, a recording of their performance, a copy of the gig poster or just a promise that they will be given another gig slot again by the same organiser?
And wouldn't it also be nice if organisers are given some empathy and slack for their efforts to help showcase talents of local bands & also support the local music scene?
You must admit that there are a lot of egotistical bands out there - but there are also bands willing to do whatever it takes just to snag a gig slot.
You must also admit that there are some dodgy organisers out there who know this and take full advantage of such bands, by asking them to do ridiculous things such as:
1. PAY the organiser for studio rental to AUDITION for the gig slot
2. BUY tickets to enter their OWN gig
3. PAY the organisers for using the instruments provided onstage
4. FORCED to sell gig tix & are penalised if not ALL are sold
5. Asked to help PAY for gig expenses
We are aware that there are sincere indie organisers out there who go out on a limb to put up a gig for the enjoyment of the public & also to give opportunities to local bands - needless to say, we must also be made aware of the lurking snakes who are only out to make a profit and couldn't care less about the bands or music scene in general.
Bands, new or experienced, don't neccessarily have to be paid by the organisers if indeed the organiser is unable to afford it - but they also shouldn't be asked to PAY the organisers.
Bands are doing the organisers a favour by performing at their gig.
Organisers - if the bands are obnoxious and have ridiculous demands, just blacklist them and find other bands who are more cooperative.
Organisers are also doing bands a favour by giving them the opportunity to actually perform in the first place.
There's always 3 sides to a story: Their version, our version and the Truth.
Organisers also have the right as to whether or not they are willing to pay the bands.
But wouldn't it be nice if all bands could receive some sort of incentive/ compensation in one way or another for their efforts? Be it monetary, a free drink, a recording of their performance, a copy of the gig poster or just a promise that they will be given another gig slot again by the same organiser?
And wouldn't it also be nice if organisers are given some empathy and slack for their efforts to help showcase talents of local bands & also support the local music scene?
You must admit that there are a lot of egotistical bands out there - but there are also bands willing to do whatever it takes just to snag a gig slot.
You must also admit that there are some dodgy organisers out there who know this and take full advantage of such bands, by asking them to do ridiculous things such as:
1. PAY the organiser for studio rental to AUDITION for the gig slot
2. BUY tickets to enter their OWN gig
3. PAY the organisers for using the instruments provided onstage
4. FORCED to sell gig tix & are penalised if not ALL are sold
5. Asked to help PAY for gig expenses
We are aware that there are sincere indie organisers out there who go out on a limb to put up a gig for the enjoyment of the public & also to give opportunities to local bands - needless to say, we must also be made aware of the lurking snakes who are only out to make a profit and couldn't care less about the bands or music scene in general.
Bands, new or experienced, don't neccessarily have to be paid by the organisers if indeed the organiser is unable to afford it - but they also shouldn't be asked to PAY the organisers.
Bands are doing the organisers a favour by performing at their gig.
Organisers - if the bands are obnoxious and have ridiculous demands, just blacklist them and find other bands who are more cooperative.
Organisers are also doing bands a favour by giving them the opportunity to actually perform in the first place.
There's always 3 sides to a story: Their version, our version and the Truth.
agree that in principle anyone who plays shld be paid even a small token fee, but the cost of organising an event is always high, esp mktg, promo, venue, equipment etc. the biggest prob is the price of tickets and the market of willing payers. more often than not it is hard to price local gigs more than 10 bucks otherwise pple will jump and howl. and even when cheaper can u get the critical mass needed to at least break even?
it is this that makes it hard to pay bands a fair amount. sure you can say it is the organiser's risk but isnt it chicken and egg really?
at most bands get together and share costs run their own show split proceeds/losses lah......
it is this that makes it hard to pay bands a fair amount. sure you can say it is the organiser's risk but isnt it chicken and egg really?
at most bands get together and share costs run their own show split proceeds/losses lah......