Recommendation for synth?
- Thread starter domsoon
- Start date
Cheez
Moderator
This has been discussed many times in the forum. Do a search and you'll see many thread on this topic.
Basically, need to ask yourself a few questions:
1. What do you need it for? Home/gig/sequence/live etc
2. Weighted or non-weighted.
3. Your budget
For Yamaha - Plaza Singapura
For Roland - Swee Lee
For Korg - City Music
You'll probably want to stick to these 3 for piano and hammond. Note also that if you're a pianist, you'll probably go for weighted but hammond is not easy to play on a weighted keyboard. If you're going to play Hammond more than piano, you may want a 76 key non-weighted. If piano, then 88-key weighted.
Basically, need to ask yourself a few questions:
1. What do you need it for? Home/gig/sequence/live etc
2. Weighted or non-weighted.
3. Your budget
For Yamaha - Plaza Singapura
For Roland - Swee Lee
For Korg - City Music
You'll probably want to stick to these 3 for piano and hammond. Note also that if you're a pianist, you'll probably go for weighted but hammond is not easy to play on a weighted keyboard. If you're going to play Hammond more than piano, you may want a 76 key non-weighted. If piano, then 88-key weighted.
Cheez
Moderator
This appears to be the most asked question in the keyboard forum - and it is an important question for those who wants to get a keyboard.
James, in view of the frequency of this questions being posted, is it possible to put a sticky on the posts relevant to this topic (or at least a post with the links to these topics with a sticky applied) so that it is easily accessed by people who wants to know?
James, in view of the frequency of this questions being posted, is it possible to put a sticky on the posts relevant to this topic (or at least a post with the links to these topics with a sticky applied) so that it is easily accessed by people who wants to know?
Cheez
Moderator
Hmm, that's seems to be a good idea. But FAQs can probably only answer general questions. Most people want to know the brands and model numbers of the keyboards they should buy. Because new models come up every so often (at least during every NAMM show - ie twice a year), the FAQ would probably get outdated and need to be revised at least twice a year. Furthermore, the answers to these specific questions are generally also quite subjective, depending a lot on the preferences of the person. So, I guess FAQ can only deal with generalisations.
Cheez
Moderator
domsoon said:In fact, it'd be good to create a keyboard FAQ - this should probably apply to all instruments. I confess, I was lazy to go through the rest of the forum.
Actually, you don't have to go through every thread. Do a search using the search function. I believe the search function uses Boolean searches.
There are quite a number of general questions which I think an FAQ could handle well - and if there are different opinions on a subject the FAQ could give a balanced account.
Actually what I was wondering was mainly:
a. Is there any advantage to buying MIDI controllers and sound modules separately versus getting a synth with all the samples inside? I intend to use this synth for both practising at home and hopefully jamming with other people.
b. I've only ever used keyboards - I presume synths allow me to control the drawbar action of a Hammond sound. Which have the most realistic effect?
I've done a couple of searches but the few threads I've come across haven't really yielded much.
Actually what I was wondering was mainly:
a. Is there any advantage to buying MIDI controllers and sound modules separately versus getting a synth with all the samples inside? I intend to use this synth for both practising at home and hopefully jamming with other people.
b. I've only ever used keyboards - I presume synths allow me to control the drawbar action of a Hammond sound. Which have the most realistic effect?
I've done a couple of searches but the few threads I've come across haven't really yielded much.
bongman
New member
Keyboards buyers' guide:
http://www.backstage-lounge.com/feature.asp?featurecode=23
General checklist:
- Sound quality
- Price
- Availabilty of additional sounds
- Quality of documentation and availiabilty of how-to books
- Number of voices and multi-timbral operation
- Built-in effects
- Built-in sequencer
- Keyboard feel and wheels/pitch-bend feel
- Good match for the rest of your setup
http://www.backstage-lounge.com/feature.asp?featurecode=23
General checklist:
- Sound quality
- Price
- Availabilty of additional sounds
- Quality of documentation and availiabilty of how-to books
- Number of voices and multi-timbral operation
- Built-in effects
- Built-in sequencer
- Keyboard feel and wheels/pitch-bend feel
- Good match for the rest of your setup
iansoh
Moderator
ah, your questions are pretty subjective. i feel that a large part of your solution would have to be based on personal preference.
the technical advantage of using modules - cheaper way to have more synths, easier to carry etc but some people, such as myself for one, still feel more comfortable with a synth than a module by virtue of the operating interface. synth and module interfaces can be pretty different in some cases, e.g motif, PC2, triton. on the other hand, some other keyboardists are able to live with this.
not all, in fact few, synths have hammond drawbar modelling. the triton has a few, but those are merely crossfading between different samples, and not true drawbar simulation. probably the best hardware synth to get is the Nord Electro, which will cost u between 2 and 3k. or u could try the roland VR-760, or korg CX-3, all with drawbar action. software synths are great too - Native Instruments B4.
it also depends on how extreme u're prepared to go. the above-mentioned are very hammond-specialised synths. if u're prepared to compromise some and live with general ROMpler synths, the motif and EX series synths are great too, and maybe the kurzweil PC2. you should read up the harmony-central user reviews on the respective synths. i can say this much for now.
PS: i play a lot of piano and hammond too. i've got an EX5 synth which i'm very happy with, and am also running some software synths. the rehearsal studio i usually go to with my band provides an RS-50 synth, and i've found that to be marginally ok too.
the technical advantage of using modules - cheaper way to have more synths, easier to carry etc but some people, such as myself for one, still feel more comfortable with a synth than a module by virtue of the operating interface. synth and module interfaces can be pretty different in some cases, e.g motif, PC2, triton. on the other hand, some other keyboardists are able to live with this.
not all, in fact few, synths have hammond drawbar modelling. the triton has a few, but those are merely crossfading between different samples, and not true drawbar simulation. probably the best hardware synth to get is the Nord Electro, which will cost u between 2 and 3k. or u could try the roland VR-760, or korg CX-3, all with drawbar action. software synths are great too - Native Instruments B4.
it also depends on how extreme u're prepared to go. the above-mentioned are very hammond-specialised synths. if u're prepared to compromise some and live with general ROMpler synths, the motif and EX series synths are great too, and maybe the kurzweil PC2. you should read up the harmony-central user reviews on the respective synths. i can say this much for now.
PS: i play a lot of piano and hammond too. i've got an EX5 synth which i'm very happy with, and am also running some software synths. the rehearsal studio i usually go to with my band provides an RS-50 synth, and i've found that to be marginally ok too.
Wow, looks like I'm dealing with a pro here, Ian. Actually to be honest I play the guitar (very badly at that), but I fell in love with the hammond sound from the James Taylor Quartet after hearing them live.
What band do you play with? I won't be in Singapore until August, but when the time comes, any chance I could drop by and see the keyboard (and your band) in action?
What band do you play with? I won't be in Singapore until August, but when the time comes, any chance I could drop by and see the keyboard (and your band) in action?
Cheez
Moderator
If your aim is to play at home and jam with friends, and since the Hammond is so important to you, getting a synth may be better than a controller + modules - especially since your 2 main sounds are the Hammond and piano and you don't intend to do sequencing. Plus, I believe, portability is an important issue if you want to gig.
You will then want to steer clear of workstations like the Motif, Triton and Fantom - since build-in sequencers may not be what you want. Also save you on the costs. They are also heavy. You will probably want a 76-key unweighted synth and, of course as you pointed out, having the draw bars.
Most keyboards with Hammond drawbars modelling comes in the 88-key weighted. I personally will like to see more 76-key having more of the drawbars since playing the Hammond with weighted keys is really not ideal. If you're not a pianist, playing B3 on weighed keys may be even more taxing and hinders your playing. Iansoh suggested the Roland VR-760 - I agree that if you want a 76-key with good Hammond drawbars, that's the one to go. Very user friendly, just the standard bread-and-butter keyboard sounds you need, great keyboard action and touch. I have not tried the Korg CX3 - so cannot comment.
If you have a notebook, softsynths is a good way to go. But you need to know that midi controllers with good long drawbars are usually 88 weighted. There are hardly any 76 keys out there. The 61 keys etc have short drawbars and not really ideal for live playing - OK for sequencing at home and studio. Fatar has a 88-key semi-weighted (VMK88) but the faders/drawbars are quite short. Can't get it in S'pore. The other is the Deopfer which came up with the new modular master organ keyboard (d3m) with separate drawbars module - probably the best Hammond emulation controller out in the market - but it is really expensive.
VR-760 is really a good synth - very well thought of in design by Roland targetting at the gigging keyboardist. I would seriously consider this option.
One last point - unless you know the Hammond well and intend to use the drawbars extensively during live playing, drawbars may not be absolutely essential although it looks cool. In fact, most of the time when I play, drawbars settings are usually not changed too much during live playing. The most frequently used controller in the Hammond, at least for me, is the mod wheel which controls the leslie. I use it ALL the time during playing - indispensable. Once the drawbar setting is fixed, I don't change it too much during a piece. That may also mean that preset Hammond sounds may be sufficient.
You will then want to steer clear of workstations like the Motif, Triton and Fantom - since build-in sequencers may not be what you want. Also save you on the costs. They are also heavy. You will probably want a 76-key unweighted synth and, of course as you pointed out, having the draw bars.
Most keyboards with Hammond drawbars modelling comes in the 88-key weighted. I personally will like to see more 76-key having more of the drawbars since playing the Hammond with weighted keys is really not ideal. If you're not a pianist, playing B3 on weighed keys may be even more taxing and hinders your playing. Iansoh suggested the Roland VR-760 - I agree that if you want a 76-key with good Hammond drawbars, that's the one to go. Very user friendly, just the standard bread-and-butter keyboard sounds you need, great keyboard action and touch. I have not tried the Korg CX3 - so cannot comment.
If you have a notebook, softsynths is a good way to go. But you need to know that midi controllers with good long drawbars are usually 88 weighted. There are hardly any 76 keys out there. The 61 keys etc have short drawbars and not really ideal for live playing - OK for sequencing at home and studio. Fatar has a 88-key semi-weighted (VMK88) but the faders/drawbars are quite short. Can't get it in S'pore. The other is the Deopfer which came up with the new modular master organ keyboard (d3m) with separate drawbars module - probably the best Hammond emulation controller out in the market - but it is really expensive.
VR-760 is really a good synth - very well thought of in design by Roland targetting at the gigging keyboardist. I would seriously consider this option.
One last point - unless you know the Hammond well and intend to use the drawbars extensively during live playing, drawbars may not be absolutely essential although it looks cool. In fact, most of the time when I play, drawbars settings are usually not changed too much during live playing. The most frequently used controller in the Hammond, at least for me, is the mod wheel which controls the leslie. I use it ALL the time during playing - indispensable. Once the drawbar setting is fixed, I don't change it too much during a piece. That may also mean that preset Hammond sounds may be sufficient.
iansoh
Moderator
haha domsoon, i'm no pro. music is my hobby, albeit a serious one. and i still have lots more to learn about it. i love the james taylor quartet too. but where did u manage to catch them live?? must have been quite an experience. do u listen to MMW too? i fell even deeper in love with the Hammond when i attended albert marsico's(who was playing with enrico crivellaro) hammond clinic during ublues fest 2003.
i play in a blues band called the raindogs but we don't have any gigs lined up after august yet. i usually play whatever keyboards the equipment rental company provides but i took my software synth and drawbar-capable controller for our last gig and it was great fun! i have had the chance to play a voce V5 through a leslie effect pedal; the physical drawbars are nice but the tone needs some tweaking. it's a nice and small module which i would actually also consider buying.
since u're overseas, you might want to consider getting your gear overseas too. selection is pretty limited here, iMO, not to mention slightly higher prices for some. i haven't seen any VR-760 in singapore, and i think there's only one or two units of CX-3 here.
i agree with what Cheez says. if u happen to be new to keyboards(since u haven't mentioned it explicitly) then i'd recommend a normal synth without sequencers and other fancy stuff. the yamaha s30 is a good one, but it's just 61 keys. the kurzweil PC2 sports 76 semi-weighted keys, with good piano and e-piano sounds to boot.
alternatively, u could invest in a laptop, controller and some software. i'm using a fujitsu laptop and a CME UF7 controller board.
i play in a blues band called the raindogs but we don't have any gigs lined up after august yet. i usually play whatever keyboards the equipment rental company provides but i took my software synth and drawbar-capable controller for our last gig and it was great fun! i have had the chance to play a voce V5 through a leslie effect pedal; the physical drawbars are nice but the tone needs some tweaking. it's a nice and small module which i would actually also consider buying.
since u're overseas, you might want to consider getting your gear overseas too. selection is pretty limited here, iMO, not to mention slightly higher prices for some. i haven't seen any VR-760 in singapore, and i think there's only one or two units of CX-3 here.
i agree with what Cheez says. if u happen to be new to keyboards(since u haven't mentioned it explicitly) then i'd recommend a normal synth without sequencers and other fancy stuff. the yamaha s30 is a good one, but it's just 61 keys. the kurzweil PC2 sports 76 semi-weighted keys, with good piano and e-piano sounds to boot.
alternatively, u could invest in a laptop, controller and some software. i'm using a fujitsu laptop and a CME UF7 controller board.
Hi ian,
I watched the JTQ (which comprised 8-10 people) in the UK when I was doing my undergrad. I'm tempted to get my stuff from overseas, but surely the shipping will kill me? I'm in Washington, DC at the moment, and I'm worried that the synth will be damaged along the eway.
I've been reading about the Roland VR-760 and I find it very impressive - that's probably what I'd get, if it's actually available in Singapore.
I find connecting up to a laptop a real hassle (even though I'm pretty good with computers) - I really just want something which I can just pull out and play.
This thread has been really useful! I look forward to coming home and making all these nice huge capital purchases which I haven't been able to while on the move.
Incidentally, I'm looking for people to jam with, hopefully play some blues and funk. Going through the forums it seems as though Singapore is swamped with hardcore metal heads!
Dom
I watched the JTQ (which comprised 8-10 people) in the UK when I was doing my undergrad. I'm tempted to get my stuff from overseas, but surely the shipping will kill me? I'm in Washington, DC at the moment, and I'm worried that the synth will be damaged along the eway.
I've been reading about the Roland VR-760 and I find it very impressive - that's probably what I'd get, if it's actually available in Singapore.
I find connecting up to a laptop a real hassle (even though I'm pretty good with computers) - I really just want something which I can just pull out and play.
This thread has been really useful! I look forward to coming home and making all these nice huge capital purchases which I haven't been able to while on the move.
Incidentally, I'm looking for people to jam with, hopefully play some blues and funk. Going through the forums it seems as though Singapore is swamped with hardcore metal heads!
Dom
CrispyEgg
New member
i was just reading through this whole thread since i'm about to buy a synth as well...
ian, since u've had experiences with the Roland RS-50, could you give more details about that particular synth? im about to get it soon.. (was supposed to get it from swee lee but they ran out of stock other than dislpay models )
my main use for the synth would be for big sounds to support my band, (strings, orchestral, "galaxy" sounds) and play some leads (screaming elec guit leads that use synth sounds, synth leads)
songs that i hope to be able to achieve (just examples of songs with nice synth sounds that i've been playing on a simple piano so far) : big sounding parts of Dream Theater, e.g. Surrounded & Under A Glass Moon, some Sonata Arctica songs like Wind Beneath My Wings (cover), lots more.
thx!
ian, since u've had experiences with the Roland RS-50, could you give more details about that particular synth? im about to get it soon.. (was supposed to get it from swee lee but they ran out of stock other than dislpay models
)my main use for the synth would be for big sounds to support my band, (strings, orchestral, "galaxy" sounds) and play some leads (screaming elec guit leads that use synth sounds, synth leads)
songs that i hope to be able to achieve (just examples of songs with nice synth sounds that i've been playing on a simple piano so far) : big sounding parts of Dream Theater, e.g. Surrounded & Under A Glass Moon, some Sonata Arctica songs like Wind Beneath My Wings (cover), lots more.
thx!
Then u must be interested in ths particular sound then
http://s34.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0SQ3JQZ4L08J61MTD6ORR7E1QZ
that's by Dream Theater from their train of thought album
Cheez
Moderator
Roland VR-760 is not available in Singapore - Swee Lee which deals with Roland stuff usually orders them in if you want them. I tried them in Hong Kong. Why not just get them in the US where you are?
CrispyEgg, if pads and leads sounds are what you are looking for and you don't need reaslistic acoustic instrument sounds and you play mainly support, why not get a second hand keyboard instead? Somebody was selling a second-hand DX7 some time ago. That will be an excellent choice for the type of sounds you are looking for. Can't quite get that legendary DX7 type sound nowadays.
I don't quite like the RS50 touch. But again, if it's pads and leads and touch is not an issue, then it's OK I guess. I believe it is replaced by the Juno-D. I have not tried the Juno-D, but I think it is better to get that rather than the RS50 (ie if you want a new synth instead of a second-hand one). This was discussed in another thread previously, I believe. And I think it would not be long before the RS70 is replaced by the Juno series.
CrispyEgg, if pads and leads sounds are what you are looking for and you don't need reaslistic acoustic instrument sounds and you play mainly support, why not get a second hand keyboard instead? Somebody was selling a second-hand DX7 some time ago. That will be an excellent choice for the type of sounds you are looking for. Can't quite get that legendary DX7 type sound nowadays.
I don't quite like the RS50 touch. But again, if it's pads and leads and touch is not an issue, then it's OK I guess. I believe it is replaced by the Juno-D. I have not tried the Juno-D, but I think it is better to get that rather than the RS50 (ie if you want a new synth instead of a second-hand one). This was discussed in another thread previously, I believe. And I think it would not be long before the RS70 is replaced by the Juno series.
iansoh
Moderator
why don't you go try out the keyboard for youself at sweelee. sale coming up right? maybe that'd be the right time to grab one.
the key actions on the RS-50 and 70 are pretty light. feels like a toy, but great for those shredding runs if u're going to play DT. you just need to have very clean fingering.
anyway, roland isn't exactly big on analog synth sounds. u might want to consider a korg triton LE or a trinity in this case.
the key actions on the RS-50 and 70 are pretty light. feels like a toy, but great for those shredding runs if u're going to play DT. you just need to have very clean fingering.
anyway, roland isn't exactly big on analog synth sounds. u might want to consider a korg triton LE or a trinity in this case.