Rant: Ethics of Guitar Stores in Singapore

[theunknown]

yeaps ized got the right shop gotta love the tube pedals and amp. charles, it's in excelsior. if penin, i do know another indian man running another guitar shop, not much experience with him though.

anyway the guy isn't all bad, he's friendly and accomodating. but the way he treats potential customers isn't the best of ways.

 

[tubescreamer]

All I can say is: make the necessary inquiries before purchase! Caveat Emptor!

Whether the purchase is conducted through the internet, or at a brick and mortar shop, just make sure that you know what you are buying (is it new? used? discontinued?) and the terms and conditions that are attached to it (warranty? returns? exchanges?).

If the retailer does something that is patently unconscionable, you will have legal recourse (CASE, small claims tribunal, civil suits etc.), but the best way to guard against such problems is really exercising your own judgment prior to purchase - check the item, ask questions, etc.

With regard to the argument about keeping retailers afloat, I can safely say that I'd rather have no dealer at all (and purchase online) than purchase from an unscrupulous dealer. Even when buying online, I make sure that I buy from retailers with good reviews (e.g. Tonefactor), and not from some seedy ebay dealer with zero feedback.

I can't emphasize this enough: It is YOUR money, make sure you are satisfied before forking it out! If you get misled by a dealer and that constitutes an illegality, by all means seek recourse through the proper channels!

 

[tubescreamer]

On the point of Woodworkz, I had pretty good experiences there with Ram (the owner). I was just window shopping with a friend and decide to try out the HT5 while my friend talked to him about recording gear. We had a pleasant experience there.

Its really a matter of conducting yourself professionally, asking the right questions, showing that you are seriously considering a purchase. E.g. if you ask detailed questions about the origins of the tubes etc, it would raise a reasonable inference that you are not just some punk who wants to plug in and play power chords at maximum volume.

 

[mockingbird]

Just gotta put up with it, guys. Being a BC Rich lover, I find myself with no choice but to face the kind of customer service you guys are ranting about; cos only one well-known shop carries BC Rich guitars here.

 

[EADGBe]

Same thing here ...

I brought both my spanking brand new USA guitar (imported) to a shop a year ago, in Excelsior for setup. I thought I had them in good hands but surprisingly both guitars ended up with so much swirl marks front and back I was totally annoyed. The swirl marks resulted from the guitar tech using a cloth to clean up prior to working the guitars.

 

[theliverevolution]

To tubescreamer:
Erm.. Okay, there's no need for telling which shop(s) have been mentioned.

But now that you mention Ram, I must also say that he's an extremely friendly person, one person who treats a customer like a friend, well, at least based on my experiences with him. Everytime I visit the shop to check out stuff, I always end up chatting with him for an hour or two (if there is no other customer in the shop).

 

[tubescreamer]

To tubescreamer:
Erm.. Okay, there's no need for telling which shop(s) have been mentioned.

But now that you mention Ram, I must also say that he's an extremely friendly person, one person who treats a customer like a friend, well, at least based on my experiences with him. Everytime I visit the shop to check out stuff, I always end up chatting with him for an hour or two (if there is no other customer in the shop).

This would provide Ram with the opportunity to step in and clear things up should he feel the need to. Of course, the thread starter should have utilised all possibilities of negotiation first.

To fretless6:
1. Was the pedal sold as a 'new' pedal? If so, why didn't you go back immediately to get it exchanged/obtain a refund when you realised that it wasn't? Did you at least look at the pedal prior to purchase?

2. About them 'selling a used pedal at double the price of a new one'. I don't think the mathematics really work out properly here. If it was indeed a used pedal when you expected a new one, you should have sought recourse immediately by at least calling the shop (refer to point 1). Moreover, you were at liberty to decide against purchasing the pedal if you did not agree with the price.

 

[fretless6]

That's the grey area.

The pedal I bought had no indication that it was used or that you'd actually be getting the display piece. It was on a display rack with everything else, which were mostly new pedals. I do recall a few items with tags that indicated that they were used. This one didn't.

Like I said in an earlier post, I didn't have a problem with getting a display piece. Even if it was used, I didn't mind as long as it was in good condition and working. Plus I only found out that another shop was selling a new one at pretty much the same price as their "50% off" price later on.

What pissed me off was the manifestation of a hidden clause that sales items only had 3 months warranty, which conveniently only came up after they found out my item was bought a little over 3 months ago.

 

[penta-tonic]

i avoid this kinda stuff by doing my shopping online. at least from the US when u buy from reputable shops they give u alot of customer service. sites such as tonefactor, proguitarshop, rocketmusic, lowend.net and many others whom i have dealt with. emails are replied promptly, and staff are super helpful and informative. just looking at prices of stuff at local boutique stores, id rather go online to tgp and buy stuff. 1200 for a tc nova system? i can get one online for 650.

 

[RicFreak]

Ram is one of the best customer oriented sales guy I know.
I'm sure what some of you guys experienced have a good reason behind.
How about talking to him directly instead of through the forum.
He is human afterall.

 

[theunknown]

tubescreamer: nevertheless, a potential customer is still a potential customer. what the customer wants to know and ask is up to the customer him/herself. the shop's aim = sell products (or even better, educate the customer also about the products)

 

[theliverevolution]

erm, tubescreamer, i don't think the shop the TS was referring to was Woodworkz. Read a bit more into the previous posts, and you'll roughly get the hang of which shop the TS was originally referring to

 

[Ized]

All this confusion wouldnt have stemmed if the shop had been named in the first place.

Anyways, I've had great experiences with all the shops so far mentioned in the thread...even the one TS mentioned... I know the owner personally and hes willing to extend personal service to me. If you got any beef with the shop and their policies, take it out with them. I'm sure they'll be reasonable enough to help you out.

 

[ebenex]

Response

This thread is interesting.

Hope the shops mentioned are not Ebenex Music or Blackwood Guitars, shops I own, love and take great pride in.

If anyone reading this has any grievance about anything, call me at 6345 2053. (its forwarded to my hp when the shop is closed). You can also email me directly at david@ebenex.com .

We definitely value everyone's business and I take it personally when customers get offended or upset when we are in the wrong.

I always emphasise on customer service to my 3 sales guys at Blackwood and realise that sometimes mistakes do happen or they may not greet everyone, or be as helpful as you'd like them to be. I am guilty of the abovementioned too, so please let us know and we will try to learn and improve.

The cornerstone of any successful business is integrity. My stance against selling used products as new is very strong as this constitutes CHEATING. In all my 8 years of dealing with used instruments, I've NEVER knowingly sold anything used as new.

If anyone has experienced such an incident, let me know and I'll refund your money.

End of the day, as some of you guys have probably heard before, a transaction's not just a transaction. We don't want a 'quick buck'. What we want is a long term, working relationship with every customer.

Thanks.

Regards,

David

 

[AmonCh]

[QUOTE=ebenex

sent you a pm regarding the part-time work.

 

[Whitestrat]

If you got any beef with the shop and their policies, take it out with them. I'm sure they'll be reasonable enough to help you out.

Here's something interesting. I'm not saying your post has anything to do with it, but I'm just making an observation.

We here in Singapore are always clamouring over freedom of speech, freedom of expression and what not. Yet whenever someone posts a complaint like this, he's always childed in some way or another that it's better to go gripe about it to the owner of the shop and not to waste time complaining about it in public. And then the slighted party always seems to want to play a "nice guy" and refrain from mentioning the shop. C'mon man... what is the POINT of talking about all this when you can't even name the party that slighted you? Where's the Cojones???

Personally, I do think that airing grievances is a good thing, if you've got fully substantiated facts, and if you really do have a good case, then all the more you should name the shop in question. More often than not, the cases always have some element of doubt in there.

Like: "I knew it was defective, but I CHOSE to take it anyways, but just want to complain." If you've chosen to accept it, then DO NOT air your problems, because you have automatically lost your grounds by saying youv'e accepted the situation AS IS when you bought the item. That's the kind of mentality I find pretty alarming here on this forum.

No point crying over spilt milk.

Sort of ironic, don't you think?

 

[teokiatuan]

cojones -

 

[taypeng81]

+1 to what whitestrat said. especially if the feedback is given in a constructive manner, the shop can accept as feedback for improvement.

the best customer service i've experienced was from a lighting shop. I knew nuts about fittings, halogen, energy-saving bulbs etc .the sales guy explained everything to me and my wife and was really accomodating. He worked with us until we got the right kind of lights for our house, allowing us to exchange the lights if we found them to be unsuitable after installing them in the room. the total sales he got from us wasnt much.

that kind of service, i have not experience in most other places including guitar shops.

 

[superpotato_30]

darn white ur post made the most sense on threads as such. if i could i would give u more rep hahah

At the end of the day, to the TS what are you going to do about this?

 

[fretless6]

Well, as I mentioned a few times on this thread, the last straw for me was the warranty issue.

Yes I kept quiet and accepted that the item I bought was used. That was becos it worked well and in good condition. I'm not saying that this is the issue I'm fed up about, but it was part of the build up.

The reason why I haven't mentioned the name of the shop is because this issue has not been resolved. They'd dropped hints that they were not covering the warranty with the whole "3 months warranty on sales items" statement, but I'll only know for sure when I get my pedal back.

So because I was ok with getting a used item, I automatically lose grounds that out of nowhere came a hidden clause that the warranty is only 3 months? Or am I suppose to only mention the warranty issue here and not the background of everything that happened?

As with the title of the thread, it's just a frustrated customer ranting. You can choose to ignore this thread if you please, but you're free to comment, as I am free to rant about my bad experiences.

Anyway, some good has come outta this thread at least. The store had contacted me to try to resolve this in an amicable fashion, so keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't take months for me to get my pedal back, moreover pay for repairs.