Rant: Ethics of Guitar Stores in Singapore

[Whitestrat]

So because I was ok with getting a used item, I automatically lose grounds that out of nowhere came a hidden clause that the warranty is only 3 months? Or am I suppose to only mention the warranty issue here and not the background of everything that happened?

Again, it's a case of Caveat Emptor. There's no such thing as a non-manufacturer warranty. Anything the shop claims is purely argumentative because it is not set in stone, and most of the time, is just company policy. And policy can be changed at the store's convenience. Something all buyers should know.

Even if you buy something branded as Sony, from Courts or Best Denki, the warranty there is from Sony. Yes, the stores can claim to have warranty extension, mainly because they have enough clout with the brand to demand for such, but the brand cannot tell the store not to offer it, or to extend it, or to remove it. It is not contractual unless the brand agrees to include it in the dealer's agreement signed by the retailer.

Do you think any small used effects shop can really provide this when Swee Lee themselves don't?

So honestly, I wouldn't place too much faith on what they can deliver.

 

[tubescreamer]

Agreed. There's usually no manufacturer's warranty when a product is purchased used e.g. Taylor.

 

[Breen]

Wampler does~ But of course his economies of scale for now allows it somewhat. But I don't count that remaining the same for very long~

 

[fretless6]

[QUOTE=Whitestrat

What I'm expecting is not extended warranty like Best Denki. It's basic expectations that when you purchase something from a store, if the item is faulty and breaks down within a short or reasonable time frame, warranty/support is honored. Be it by the manufacturer or the dealer carrying that brand. I would expect the norm to be that if the brand does not have their own service center or vendor in the area, the dealer would be the de facto provider for product support.

City Music or even smaller shops like TYMusic provide support for products they carry. I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect or that it is out of the norm for dealers to either provide 1 for 1 replacements or service faulty goods.

When an amp head I bought from City Music started acting up, I brought it down to the store and they did a 1 to 1 replacement even when the same problem didn't manifest at the store.

So even if it's down to company policy that does not favor the consumer, but at the same time, totally legal. Then perhaps its not a bad thing that people come to know that the store they're purchasing from, actually doesn't honor the goods they sell. Which I may reveal if my warranty is indeed not honored.

Again to add, the item I bought, was in no way labelled to be a used item.

 

[jmb23]

hey,dont make a big fuss out of it.just send it to a reliable tech that could fix your pedal faster than a week

 

[fretless6]

Please do that if the neck of your Epiphone Les Paul Ultra pops off 3 months after you buy it and the store u bought it from tells u theres no warranty.

 

[CosmosHara]

hey,dont make a big fuss out of it.just send it to a reliable tech that could fix your pedal faster than a week

So everybody just keep quiet like you and just let black shops continue to do whatever they want?

Hahahaha...

 

[jmb23]

Please do that if the neck of your Epiphone Les Paul Ultra pops off 3 months after you buy it and the store u bought it from tells u theres no warranty.

now i just hope ur pedal rust in peace

 

[fretness]

what pedal you buy

 

[Ized]

[QUOTE=Whitestrat

It is...but then we gotta remember that not all of us have the same experience as TS, for instance, I've never had bad service from those shops named and Blackwood was the main reason why I started going back to guitar shops - service was great and David was always willing to work out good deals for me which was sth you would almost never get from (just for comparison's sake) for example, Swee Lee.

Reason why I suggested TS go resolve it with them is because I'm pretty sure they'll work sth out - David is one of the nicest guys in the business. I'm sure he wouldnt want his name to go up in smoke just over one isolated incident. If its some other shop along the lines of well you know what... would I bother to tell him that?

I agree with you about the "take it as it is" mentality though. That is why I get pretty annoyed by salesmen who dont know their stuff and don't clarify facts when ppl like us ask questions pertaining to specs and stuff.... I think you know what I'm talking about right? Otherwise, I generally think its the consumer's responsibility to clarify issues before buying...especially if the shop has a no refund/exchange policy.

 

[ramnath71]

Response from Ram

can i rant too? a shop in penin/excelsior basement.

entered asking to test a pedal, i found out the pedal uses a dedicated power supplier, i said "shit, abit troublesome", guy said "woah not interested ah?" continued on saying, "if u want tone, u cannot be lazy blabla. u know in other countries ppl carry stacks up the stairs blabla" forgot some things he said but somewhere along the lines there was a personal attack there.

then i wanted to ask for a pick, he said "hey man are u a guitar player or what? no pick? *laughs*". hey...what i bring along with me is not his business..

my friend expressed his amusement on the amp i tested the pedal on, says that its much better than his amp. guy asked what amp my friend uses and says "shitty amp. ones u get this amp, u can throw that amp away, man".

and thing is i wanted to test the pedal, but it ended up as a show off session by the guy.

pity...good products, but that kinda treatment makes me wanna find other alternatives to get the product.

I would not normally respond to rants and raves but my name has been mentioned and we have been falsely accused on this forum.

As for this post...my friend...I remember you...

Some things you forgot to mention.

You tried my personal guitar with Seymour Pickups and played for a good long time while I setup everything and helped you to undertstand the Dist-X pedal and the HT5 better.

You rudely demanded to know what pickups were in my Epiphone. I did answer you that it was JB and Jazz.

The only reason I was playing was because I was trying to show the capabilities of the amp (not mine). What if I played with my tongue or teeth as someone else mentioned. I did not stop you from doing the same and enjoying the amp. Coz I sincerely enjoy it. If you were not interested to listen to the the amp and other fellow guitar players, why play music or go shopping. Join a hate club!

Your friend seemed to enjoyed it. He is the one who suggested getting rid of his amp and getting the Blackstar HT5. I was simply supporting his decision. Why were you so upset? He is not borrowing money from you, is he?

We bring in products at our expense and high risk, for you guys, and if we are not highly opiniated, convinced about the product or don't believe in it, why bring it in the first place? I can tell you it is a thankless job and we are not exactly queing up to the bank. I am just a regular working guy trying to bring new things to Singaporean musicians. It is our passion for music and obsession with gear that keeps us going.

Like someone else said, be polite and you will receive the same treatment.
If you go to some one's house are you rude to them? Then why are you rude to shop personnel? Are you defensive coz you feel awkward to demand service when you know you are not gonna buy anything. I am cool if you test things and take my time, of course, when I am not too busy with serious customers. We have bills to pay too. It is sad when hospitality goes unthanked. No wonder some store folks behave the way they do. Imagine introducing yourself to someone on a first name basis, shaking hands, thanking them for a good time and then going to a forum to lovelovelovelovelove about them. Not nice.....

You take yourself and me too seriously. There was no personal attack there. For god's sake, that was the first time I met you. I did'nt even know you. Joking about not carrying a pick, about folks carrying amps to get their tone, a shitty practice amp....Man, I am sorry I hurt your feelings there.

If you need some love and comfort, come by again and I will give you a few free picks and buy you kopi, OK?

 

[jnev]

Strike 1: Sales items, usually display pieces are given. You could have enquired before making the payment.

Strike 2: It is a display unit, didn't u hold it and just have a look see?

Strike 3: Price issue. It's up to them. They can always say "expensive? dont buy then".

Strike 4: Oh well, I've always make it a habit to ask the salesperson the warranty duration, and what it covers. Kiasuism has its pros.

Strike 5: Did you ask them why?

Some people seem to have all the answers UNTIL shit happens to them...

 

[ramnath71]

Clarification from Woodworkz

Well, as I mentioned a few times on this thread, the last straw for me was the warranty issue.

Yes I kept quiet and accepted that the item I bought was used. That was becos it worked well and in good condition. I'm not saying that this is the issue I'm fed up about, but it was part of the build up.

The reason why I haven't mentioned the name of the shop is because this issue has not been resolved. They'd dropped hints that they were not covering the warranty with the whole "3 months warranty on sales items" statement, but I'll only know for sure when I get my pedal back.

So because I was ok with getting a used item, I automatically lose grounds that out of nowhere came a hidden clause that the warranty is only 3 months? Or am I suppose to only mention the warranty issue here and not the background of everything that happened?

As with the title of the thread, it's just a frustrated customer ranting. You can choose to ignore this thread if you please, but you're free to comment, as I am free to rant about my bad experiences.

Anyway, some good has come outta this thread at least. The store had contacted me to try to resolve this in an amicable fashion, so keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't take months for me to get my pedal back, moreover pay for repairs.

Dear fretless6,

I am happy that the store has contacted you and you are on your way to receiving justice.

I just want to clarify that 'WE (WOODWORKZ) HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SO CALLED SHADY DEAL'. The thread had drifted, and some softies were confusing us with this sale. I only have one used mxr comp in my store and am not even selling it. Why should I risk my reputation for a few miserly bucks?

We honour the warranty we offer. None of our customers have come back with any complaints. We love going the extra mile....

Ram
Woodworkz

 

[theunknown]

Ram: Check your pm.

jnev: Fortunately or not, shit never happened to me because my kiasuism and asking too many questions.

Cheers

 

[Ized]

There's nothing wrong with being opinated. Not having an opinion is like having a body without a soul.

But that being said - there are many ways of expressing opinion without offending others. No doubt the product may be good but praise can be heaped on it without having to put down other products - some may deem it mildy offensive. Its all pretty much subjective because no two people think alike, yes?

Just an observation.

 

[mockingbird]

^ There you go. Well said.

 

[Pedal-itis]

im finding this thread very interesting... in my opinion, shit happens to even the best of us.. even from the best shops. even with all the care in the world. when it happens to you, the feeling is really just gut wrenching. i myself had a big purchase that was faulty that was just never made right which later costed me extra to fix. so i guess no one will really know the pinch until it happens to him/herself.

In the case of Ram of woodworkx, man the guy rocks man, and even though i have not made my purchases there, he has given me a good amount of advice so Kudos to them. there are a number of shops that provide bad service and esp after sales service, and unfortunately, shops in the music industry is prob the worst of this kind.

after much thinking, i also dont think that dissatisfied buyers should remain quiet. i think that many of these stores take their customers for granted as they have sole distributorship to many of the much seeked brands and have the capabilities of bringing in and selling items many local musicians dont see often or dont have the means to ship in. also due to the lack of competition amongst these firms/companies, the seller (shops) gain a sizeable amount of power over the buyer (us) hence the lack of appreciation.

 

[Whitestrat]

What I'm expecting is not extended warranty like Best Denki. It's basic expectations that when you purchase something from a store, if the item is faulty and breaks down within a short or reasonable time frame, warranty/support is honored. Be it by the manufacturer or the dealer carrying that brand. I would expect the norm to be that if the brand does not have their own service center or vendor in the area, the dealer would be the de facto provider for product support.

Agreed on your first point. But haven't you realised that applies only to NEW items bought from the authorised dealer? You said you bought it used no?

Beware, that many local dealers here are NOT the authorised dealer. For example, don't expect Davis to warranty an Ibanez bought from them as they are not the authorised dealer. And if something screws up about that guitar, it's very likely that Swee lee might not honor it either, since it wasn't bought from them. Same like how Kah Motors does not offer warranties for Hondas bought from PI.

 

[Whitestrat]

Reason why I suggested TS go resolve it with them is because I'm pretty sure they'll work sth out - David is one of the nicest guys in the business. I'm sure he wouldnt want his name to go up in smoke just over one isolated incident. If its some other shop along the lines of well you know what... would I bother to tell him that?

That's the problem. How does one resolve it when you're not the authorised dealer, and the pedal is used except to give a refund? the pedal can't be fixed like that. and honetly, I don't know many shops who would entertain refunds, regardless of sale or not.

It's like this guy who walked into Guitar Connection when I was there. He asked to try a pedal, and they let him. Then he said he wanted that pedal, and they proceeded to wrap it up for him. You know what the guy said?

"Wait. I don't want this one. I want the brand new one. This one is scratched."

They guys in the store looked at him funny and said, "erm... it's a used pedal. there are bound to be some cosmetic damage to the pedal."

So the guy says: "well, then get me a new one instead!" (rather rudely, mind you)

And they look at him funny again and ask. "er... we don't carry these. We can't get you a new one, unless you want us to respray it for you?"

The guy left in a huff, though I can't understand why. What part of GC looks like it's a new equipment dealer?

My point is, sometimes it might not even be the shop's fault. I'm not saying it isn't in the TS's case, but sometimes there are things that both sides are guilty of, and having a broader understanding of the picture would alleviate a lot of pain on the consumer end.

 

[Whitestrat]

In the case of Ram of woodworkx, man the guy rocks man, and even though i have not made my purchases there, he has given me a good amount of advice so Kudos to them. there are a number of shops that provide bad service and esp after sales service, and unfortunately, shops in the music industry is prob the worst of this kind.

Word. Ram is cool, if a bit opinionated. Hahahha... But that's his perogative as a human! He grudgingly sold me the first amp stand he brought in mainly because I bugged him hard enough for it. He hadn't even had a chance to try it out himself! Never experienced anything bad from woodworks. I feel bad not buying much from there cos everytime I go there, Ram gives great customer service.

But the worse kind of customer service? Erm... try luxury watches man... that's BAD!

But sometimes, you have no choice but to tell the truth. If in what he says is correct, and the guy's amp was indeed shitty, I also would have tried to convince the guy to get rid of it and get the HT5! That's a REALLY nice amp!