One is considered a good pianist if he can play jazz

[Cheez]

Anyway, the quote "jazz isn't about technique" didn't come from me haha. Read it somewhere; think it was from one of the jazz musicians, Branford Marsalis

That was an interesting quote from Branford Marsalis! I wonder why he said that. Maybe he meant something else in context. I'm pretty sure his brother Wynton Marsalis would disagree with him. But nevertheless, it does make one think where he is coming from...

But the interesting turn of this thread does show one thing about jazz - everybody got quite different interpretation of what jazz is or what it is suppose to be. If this thread shows anything, it showed the diversity of jazz. Just as 2 pianists would interpret a piece by Tchaikovsky differently, 2 different pianists would interpret a jazz piece differently and play it in a different style. Looks like the same goes for the listeners and critics of any kind of music. Good to have diversity.

 

[rockito]

wat I meant was for a jazz pianist to do the usual things (he does with a jazz band) in a rock band may not work, and hence may seem out with the rest.

yes. its how u fit in jazz with your creativity.
wat i mean by using jazz in rock? using the 4 primary elements of music: melody, harmony, rythm, timbre. then add expression or feel.

wat creates melody (one after another) and harmony (simultaneuous)?
the sound of notes..
be it jazz scalings or chord progressions, u can include it in any music.

yes. i agree with u KJ dat sometimes it will sound weird to some ppl if we use jazz in rock. some listeners like it and some may not. if u wanna fuse things together, do note that the most importance of all is the melody coz its the melody that identifies the characteristics of a composition.

 

[rockito]

and Silencer, who's arguing?

 

[bongman]

jazz...

probably it's true that playing Jazz music requires higher skills than rock and pop. strange that I never like jazz in my younger days and I remember reading some article that John Lennon said 'Jazz is shit music' which I believe is because Jazz normally don't appeal to youngsters as it's not a striaght forward easy listening music. For musicians who grown out of playing pop and rock, Jazz music is considered more challenging to play with wider improvisation space. I think it is true that if you can play Jazz, playing other forms of music genre is half the battle won.

Anyone remember the UK band 'Johnny hates Jazz' ???

 

[Mr_KeyboardMan]

Whoa ... havent been to this site for few days and i miss such an interesting discussion.

Personally, I feel that learning other genres besides jazz can be as hard as learning jazz. Making and composing pop songs that appeals and memorable can take a much longer time than analysing charlie parker solo. That doesn't include the time spent on thinking about arrangement and sound effects or the compatibility of the lyrics and the melody while making sure it sounds original (not like other pop songs). So even pop songs which has been considered the easiest songs to play and make has their own difficulty if you look at them carefully.

Same thing applies to rock/metal ... there's still much more to learn in rock/metal even if you have master arpeggio from hell by yjm or speed kills by michaelangelo and play them twice the speed.

After learning jazz for sometime, i feel that i picks up faster when learning other genres. Perhaps this is how the statement comes about "When you have learnt jazz it is easier to master other genres."

however, I absolutely disagree that if you learnt jazz you HAD master every other genres.

Learning other genres can be as difficult as Jazz. What's difficult is turning that genres into a good music. However, a lot of people doesn't see it that way and they view jazz for having complex rhythm and improvisation as being the most difficult to learn.

Having technicality and skills alone doesn't makes a good musician. It is the music that makes a musician good. Whatever the genres is, Good musician makes good music.

Cheers

 

[RockPiano]

"After learning jazz for sometime, i feel that i picks up faster when learning other genres. Perhaps this is how the statement comes about "When you have learnt jazz it is easier to master other genres."
-Mr KEyboard_man

ABout the above statement, what are the kinda stuff you learn in jazz that makes it much easier/faster in your case for you to grasp the other techniques of other genres? I believe that the techniques and progressions and appregios and stuff learnt in jazz on the guitar are pretty similar to the piano, so what are those skills you have learnt?care to share?i want to improve....thanks!

 

[_KJ]

I think wat Rockpiano says it's true. I often hear statements tat assumes tat if you can play jazz, u r a gd pianist. I certainly don't agree with tat! Ironically, some of the best jazz pianists I know do not have a high grade in piano.

And if someone thinks that jazz piano is "the highest skill" a pianist can attain, imagine what Horowitz would say ........ haha. (coincidentally, Horotwitz and Art Tatum were gd friends, and both had alot of respect for each others' playing

Jazz itself is often misunderstood as a genre. I have met pianists who claim that they play "jazz", simply cos they can solo on some blues scale and know a few seventh chords.

Jazz is alot more than tat. It's a heritage and also a language, and it's like a personal voice built upon the foundation of tradition. Nowadays alot of music is quick to be associated with jazz, genres like smooth jazz, acid jazz..... are they really jazz, I don't think so!

To me the definition is clear and simple, if you claim to play jazz, but you don't even play jazz standards, have no idea wat a Charlteson rhythm is, or wat constitutes a swing feel, you are no jazz pianist.

If you can go down to say, Jazz@Southbridge and hold your own against the jazz musicians in a jam, I would say, yeah, you play can jazz.

And bottomline is, if you can play, you can play, grades don't mean anything

Regards,
KJ

 

[rockito]

this topic will never have an ending. jazz is just jazz jerking someone's jackass.. hehe :twisted:

Charlteson? i tot its Charleston..maybe i've been ignoring it all this while. anyway,i dont tink dat Charlteson-ston rhythm is important. jazz standards?
no need to set standard lah. juz whack onli..

watever its is juz whack that piano if somebody ask u can play jazz or not. maybe got that swing rhythm but no improvisation or maybe got improvisation but no swing.
make the melody sounds weird then say jazz is free and u've played alot of styles in one song.
if anything else fails, u juz 'swing' him.

good nite. god bless.
thank you!!

 

[Mr_KeyboardMan]

ABout the above statement, what are the kinda stuff you learn in jazz that makes it much easier/faster in your case for you to grasp the other techniques of other genres?

Probably the most useful ones is learning different kind of rhythms, harmonics movement and ear training ... it's kinda easy to read and play classical music once you relate it in terms of chords and scale ... divide the pieces in terms of chords and scale and then study it and then apply it into your improvisation.

 

[Arthen]

I strongly recommend these 2 artists from the Jazz Piano committee;

Hiromi Uehara

Harry Connick Jr.

Listen to them and you'll soon know what Jazz feels like. Although it might not be fair to say it is the "highest" form, it is indeed one of the few VERY complicated musical areas.

I wouldn't determine how good a musician a person is just by looking at what certificate he/she has. Cause for all you know even if they could play Beethoven's 16733441111th symphony that sounds like four hands, they might only know how to read the notes and play. But they do not know how to express themselves in a kind of music of their own.

These 2 artists are what IMPROVISATION is all about.

I have a very strong take on this; if you can't improvise, you can't really compose. Bach, Paganini, Oscar Peterson, they were all extreme rock and rollers and GREAT improvisers. It's ironic that today "high culture" that is learning music from these masters are biased against people who do not share the same views of cultural discipline and EXACT photocopying of masterpieces.

In Singapore it's waaayyy worse.....your musicianship is determined by the typical people by your Grade.

 

[DoubleBlade]

I'm currently taking ABRSM Grade 1 Jazz and I shall give my reason why I took the Jazz route instead of the classical route.


I've met people who own grade 7-8 certificates before. They can do almost anything under the sun. Side reading , flying fingers syndrome etc , the kinda expectations you have for a grade 7-8 student. The thing is , if you give them a piece and tell them improvise on ONLY the bass clef , they get dumbfounded. I used to think highly of these students but I sort of neglected the improvising aspect of it. It's not to say that all classical pianist can't improvise , but I would say a high number of classical pianist who owns a grade 7 or 8 certificate that I've met before can't improvise. I've seen it with my very own eyes before and it kinda freaked me out totally....

I don't wanna be a "slave" for music just by playing directly from scores but I want to have some form of "freedom" when playing music. With no strings attached....

But if you were to look at certain classical pieces , if by looking at the structure of it , it's very hard to improvise on the spot but rather if you were to improvise a particular bar of notes , I guess you have to do some theory work first before attempting where else in Jazz , they give you the bass clef and the entire trebleclef bar is your dance floor.


So is Jazz complicated? I would say to a certain extent YES because it requires you to know your chord structure and scales well. Chord structures include inversions , which notes form which chords etc. It is true that the ABRSM board states that a candidate should possess a grade 3 classical certificate first before attempting grade 1 jazz. The reason being , you need to know your sense of pulse , good technic , chord formations , touch and so much more.

But , Jazz IS NOT HARD....

Yes you may find it difficult initially because remember , the candidate was once a classcially tranined pianist. So obviously the technics employed in classical playing is completely different from the jazz point of view. So I guess , it takes quite some time for the candidate to get used to the technics employed in jazz.

In classical , you play scales in straight motion....

In jazz , you play modes in "Swing" motion which means that every alternate note of the scale is accented. Accented notes should not be "striked" but rather the accented note should be "connected" to give that "swing" feel....

Jazz is complicated yes BUT not difficult

 

[Mr_KeyboardMan]

Wah power lah doubleblade,

Another jazz pianist is born

 

[bongman]

the next Jeremey Monteiro

 

[aaron]

wow.. would love to hear ur Jazz demos soon!

 

[DoubleBlade]

Wah power lah doubleblade,

Another jazz pianist is born

I just started 2 weeks ago.... :roll:

Getting into that "swing" mood is really killing me....to the point that I always nood my head vigouriously until it becomes habitiual :lol:

 

[soft]

a musician is good when people say he is good. :lol:

 

[DoubleBlade]

I bet that's what everyone else might say 8)

 

[ChanMin]

good going dude... hope to hear more of your postings in OM and maybe even see you on stage at gigs.

Talking about jazz . Jazz is real tough for me... picking up theory and stuff is like bleeding my nuts dry. wonder how you seem to just take it in your stride...
i guess thats where true talent comes into the picture.

 

[iansoh]

takes an awful lot of balls to be able to confidently say "i play jazz" and be able to back it up worthily.

 

[DoubleBlade]

picking up theory and stuff is like bleeding my nuts dry. wonder how you seem to just take it in your stride...
i guess thats where true talent comes into the picture.

I'm not being biased or anything but I think theory is best understood with the aid of a keyboard. I'm not telling you to buy an entire keyboard or anything but if you have a fair knowledge of the keys on the piano/keyboard and apply it to your learning of theory , It really helps a lot. Something like a graphical aid in your understanding of music theory 8)