Music Appreciation/Education Blog

Want to call do it tomorrow morning. Limpeh is tired already. I get spammed so much 1 more person doesn't make a difference.

Also if you want to kaopeh to moderator to delete all this stuff that's embarrassing shit for a real person with a real name I also have no objections. After all I can just hide behind my nick but mr crazy guy will have to face the consequences in public.
 
notsoatas thanks for your opinions. I'm just really surprised how he's taking this. Hahaha

Anyway with all due respect centralcatchment please read my blog properly before you make any more comments.

And I can finally conclude this long drawn out discussion by simply saying good night since you're tired. =)
 
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Hi to all those who are reading this thread. Sorry for the trolls.

I am going to reorganise the site to make it easier to read through my notes. Hope I can instill some joy of listening music in a different way into you. =) Hope you'll enjoy it. =)

Also if you're really curious, I will have a full explanation about the blog and what I will be talking about.
 
Updated with a basics of listening series first part. =)

Changed quite a lot of things and rearranged much of the page. Hope to get some feedback. And I understand the reasons why the others don't seem to get the point of my blog. But I did write a bit on explanation. Please do share your comments... =)
 
you know, i'm not here to defend yizhe or anything, but seriously:

there is something wrong with prioritizing theory over music, because theory is just a means to an end - music

now that we've settled that. get this in your heads - knowing stuff doesn't make you play worse, or lose interest in music. that's like saying that you lose interest in english after you learn alot of words. in other words, it's rubbish.

don't fear analysis. theory is simply a human attempt to put down on paper what cannot really be described in words.

i'm not going to say whether or not i agree with yizhe's analysis on his blog, because it's safe to say that he doesn't give a shit whether i agree or not, because art is art, and opinions are opinions.

the fact that there's a resource out there will help. people will learn to discern whether or not stuff is legit, and if they don't, who gives a rat's rectum?
 
the only jazz i heard so far is diana krall and norah jones cos of my wife's cds, otherwise I thought jazz was something musicians couldn't pull off playing in other genres so they went jazz.. , yes I see the flames coming at me now hahahahaha...

alright jokes aside, lets just put this as an example, I disagree with what the blog has to say without reading too much details, quick to assume based on lines like "Basics of Listening" , wtf, I don't listen to other people to tell me how to listen so I can listen, I don't think so much about figuring music out, I just feel. and if I don't feel it due to consumer bias. I'd just simply say "jazz is boring, lets listen to something more "happening" " or the next lady gaga hit. I am your average simple music consumer.
but that's just too quick to pass off a label that just cos one new listener listens to something he barely understands or is familiar with he starts shooting all the negative label. So I have given a "painful" read on everything stated on the blog and now I somewhat still don't get it for now apart from like what bboy2388 said , to phrase it out in words but nice try.even if I wasn't in it for the jazz, even if it's not how listening to music from a "higher/deeper" perspective is mandatory , but if you're in soft forum as a music enthusiast/budding musician onwards, music is going to be part of your everyday lives you might as well stop being so ignorant and really listen to what you're listening and feel what you're feeling to truly enjoy (and relate) music.

it's right to say that (thru analysis/words) is not a right way music listening should be introduced after you're a seasoned musician. But really how many of us started listening to the music we're under influenced right now, and was it the right way? if you ask me, mine was really lame cos I listened to rock to fit in with friends. I listened to retro so i won't be outcasted by my siblings on how uncool I was. I listened to the gayest songs (literally sung by gay musicians a.k.a darren hayes) which the chicks listened to score. and I listened to chip music/electronica/trance cos I got sick of listening to fit in. I listened cos I felt it.

crazyguy106 : I'd like to suggest a constructive section of "different perspective" apart from your theory or a hyperlink to each of your statement with someone who has something just as valid said and instead of just a "this is my opinion" , because the people who tend to debate and bother to post say you're wrong, most likely can't be bothered to create a blog that counter-posts your "theory". So you might as well make the reader's time worthwhile and allow any possible form of negative debate, turn positive.

cheers to music peoples.
 
btw I'd like to also follow up that, my method of analysis is not in words, it's when I listen and close my eyes, I see a past memory i can relate to or a scene in the movie or visualize a "music video scene" out of the melody,lyrics,energy from the song/music... ok maybe you can phrase it in words, but it's in the listener's imagination. It's why dancers dance / go all theatrical, they too portray the emotions of a song in body language.
 
Updated with a basics of listening series first part. =)

Changed quite a lot of things and rearranged much of the page. Hope to get some feedback. And I understand the reasons why the others don't seem to get the point of my blog. But I did write a bit on explanation. Please do share your comments... =)

bboy2388; said:
i'm not going to say whether or not i agree with yizhe's analysis on his blog, because it's safe to say that he doesn't give a shit whether i agree or not, because art is art, and opinions are opinions.

You can't be serious about that; you're having a laugh.

I'm not going to alter or retrospectively edit what I said in my 2 earlier posts. I didn't post them for the purpose of pissing off crazyguy or to provoke an emotional meltdown. Criticism is one thing - well had I known that crazyguy is not merely a name but also an accurate description of the person I would have kept my mouth shut.

I am going to say that I don't like his approach because that is preferable to saying that his approach is wrong. It's all subjective opinions after all.

Put it simply, it's about the scope. Written words are a bad medium for describing music (which is one of the main points earlier, for those who can't tell - it wasn't that clear). But it's still OK if they're describing the overall effect of the music. But when you zoom in too much there is the danger that you lose sight of the overall effect. It won't necessarily happen of course, but in music you should only start zooming in when you know you won't lose the big picture. (And to be fair to crazy guy - if only he were as fair to me as I am to him - he does mention 1 or 2 things about the big picture.) I have listened to a piece of music closely before, close enough to know the exact notes that are being played. And I often find that when I do that, I lose sight of the more important things - how that music made me feel when I first heard it.

There's no need to extensively quote his blog to observe this. And his claims that I've never read the blog before I started writing about it are naturally rubbish.
 
crazyguy106 : I'd like to suggest a constructive section of "different perspective" apart from your theory or a hyperlink to each of your statement with someone who has something just as valid said and instead of just a "this is my opinion" , because the people who tend to debate and bother to post say you're wrong, most likely can't be bothered to create a blog that counter-posts your "theory". So you might as well make the reader's time worthwhile and allow any possible form of negative debate, turn positive.

cheers to music peoples.

You know as a matter of fact I will be putting up my earlier 2 lengthy responses as a blog entry - I've thought hard about them - obviously not the incoherent ramblings crazyguy says they are. But really - you saw how earlier he dug up my handphone number from some other post of mine I put up elsewhere. I'll be damned if I let a guy like that come anywhere my blog.
 
i think there is nothing wrong the discussions here, people who have posted here did not completely put down the analytical perspective, arguments and opinions have been quite balanced. There was certainly no 'trolling' at all.

Its hard to remain neutral.. but i have to agree a lot with what centralcatchment had posted.

Perhaps the biggest problem is the way information is put forth. A little humility and maybe a change in attitude would ease a lot of tension, make your views more acceptable

And it is also hard to accept the fact that , you, an 'educator', would resort to such mischievous acts. I guess there goes whatever credibility you have.
 
centralcatchment : ah.. this one I may have missed i didn't see the handphone thing. i thought you guys were calling each other up to debate over the phone or something. lets keep things personal to personal within forum rules then. sorry to hear that

because i'm not a musician (i can only remember the G chord so far) at all, I can't really say anything to wow you guys "in music theory" but i think my main wish for anything in this forum is try to maintain neutral to positive outcomes, and hope this don't just end up another "thread pointless, LOCK!DELETE!" because it's finally worthwhile and uncommon compared to the usual stomp.com.sg repost crap or "who do you think is the best" being posted.

leaving for australia in 4hrs for a month. take care y'all.
 
Okay as again, I'm not so bored as to call you up for no good reason. I'm not "notsoatas" and as again, logic states that I'm not that much of an idiot to actually post repeats of my own comments on another account just to "add on to the point". To both centralcatchment and hifi_killer, you might want to insist your way to think that I was the other account. If you want to ask the moderators for the IP address to see for yourself you would wanna think again. Could a moderator actually help me on this?

Anyway about the funniest thing about all of this. Centralcatchment, I'm not asking you to listen to ONLY the notes. Or concentrate ONLY on the notes. I'm talking about phrasing, placement, rhythmic ideas. In my opinion, you still haven't read my blog because you either a. don't get what I'm talking about or b. skimmed through the whole damn thing before you even had a proper read.

Your funniest comment was how you listen to other musicians. It's obvious that you didn't read my blog properly. When I mean read, I mean take time to actually read through the comments and try out the methods. By far that's one of the most ridiculous things I've read. It's like a person writing a whole paragraph worth of stuff and you take the sentence that seems to jump out at you the most and make a judgement with that. Do you think that's reading? And for the two of you you can continue taking out the points at my name or whatever "educator" status that you like to try to put me down on. I'm glad that you have the great maturity to do such things.

And as for the method of listening, again, I'd like to emphasise that if you don't get what I'm trying to advocate, stop acting like you know. I'm not going into theory like "what notes to play" or a whole bunch of other stuff. I'm talking about things which truly affect the music: phrasing, rhythm, placement, flow, motifs and a whole bunch of other stuff. I'm not talking about throwing jargons into the air and letting everyone try to understand and completely fail. I'm talking about realistic things which affect the music which most of you people do not even notice; which is what I can simply say for both centralcatchment and hifikiller. If you actually took time to notice those things rather than arguing against it you might find something new in it altogether.

So again, I'd extend an invitation to properly read the blog before you make more comments. And READ means reading through the words, not "get the gist of it" because that's what you're doing right now when it comes to music too. I re-wrote quite a few parts to help you understand in case you didn't. If you still don't I can try my best.

Words are always inadequate in describing pictures or music or dance because those are completely very different things. But an attempt to articulate it and coming to a common language helps paint pictures in one's mind such that we can relate to one another and to understand music better as a whole.

I'd like to thank both hifikiller and centralcatchment for their wonderful feedback. It reflects exactly the type of attitude towards music that I'd like to change.

Anyway, I did a series on pop thus far. It is my opinion nonetheless, but I'm posing questions as to the difference. I personally relate a lot of social phenomenon with the music but that's my own conclusions and relations. Feel free to comment and what you think.

P.S.: Please just read properly. Read each sentence and word and understand it before commenting.
 
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To TS:
I do understand where you're coming from. You're talking about understanding how the different elements all come together to form the song, and understanding the elements themselves. I can't say I'm for it or against it, but it seems having a trained ear made you dislike everything else so I think I'll keep my daily dose of mindless 4/4 rock music thanks.

However I do think you are a rather stereotypical jazz fellow.

I saw the post where you talked about art.. one portion stuck out to me
"Uneducated listeners are the reason why music is a commodity rather than an art. If you don't know about what art is, which I have to admit your argument touches nothing on it, then you're by far not understanding the point."

Who are you to define art? I don't even want to get into discussing the definition of art but your claims are so ridiculous and full of bullshit really.
You're clearly suggesting that jazz is the only genre of music that is considered art. Or maybe they have to reach a certain technical level before they are empirically considered art?

There are no objective pros and cons of any genre, that suggestion is total bs and shows how holed up you are in your little jazz hermit hole. Let me guess, the one with the most pros and least cons would be jazz?

I honestly think you should change your blog title to "Jazz Appreciation and Education", because though it's not direct and blatant, your mindset/teaching revolves around "how to appreciate jazz(the most superior form of music) and scoff at everything else(but like some of it so you don't appear to be a typical elitist jazz kid)"

Thank god i don't appreciate music as well as you do. good night.
 
I'm not the person who defined art. We all know that the simple thing about art is that it is an extension of the soul. If one does not understand soul one does not understand art. When a person has obviously no idea on what makes music music, and what makes art art, then the appreciation and the artistic value of a particular music is lost to its audience.

Take a classic novel for example. You think that a person who does not know how to appreciate the intricacies in the novel would think the book is brilliant? An uneducated person in terms of literature would tend towards reading books which do not require them to have a deeper understanding of anything to fully understand. A full out satire or philosophical book would completely lose its worth on them. That's exactly what's happening to good music. And no good music isn't just jazz, because there's plenty of crappy jazz out there.

And no trained ears hasn't prevented me from listening to everything else. I listen to everything else from drum and bass to extreme death metal. I personally enjoy Shonen Knife, Nirvana, Pink Floyd and other people in many genres of music. I know the legends of most genres and have opened my ears to them. In fact because of my training I've been more willing to listen to those music because I wanted to learn from it. And I definitely did so. If you, as obvious as it seems, read the blog for it's worth then you wouldn't say that. Hooray! Thank you for passing judgement before you even know a thing. Talking crap before it goes through your brain FTW!

I personally leave Cream and Mr Big and Rush and Beatles, and they are some of the best song writers and musicians who will ever come to pass. I will touch on them on my blog. That also includes individuals like Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan etc. AND I also learned more about World music; I listen to Indian Carnatic, Hindustani and have played with them myself to gain new insights. The problem is that you guys don't even try other genres, keep thinking that all those who are doing other genres (such as metal and all the rest) all think they're so great and therefore think that those music are junk and you'd prefer being there. Problem is, you can learn to appreciate YOUR genre in the same way as I appreciate my genre. That's exactly what this whole blog is about. If you're too dumb to get it and just because I do my analysis and expressions in relation to jazz you think I'm a snob. -_-

You might think that I'm being a jazz snob also because I seem to tell another person off for a general thing, and because my favourite genre is jazz. Well think about it. What is art? Do you understand the difference between aesthetics and arts? Do you know what makes a band sound good and not the other? Why do some bands last forever but most disappear in history? That's what I talk about. The front part yes I talk a lot about jazz because it's my roots and I did mention on my blog that I would be starting it from that perspective. If you didn't read the disclaimer good on you. I'm not telling you that jazz is superior at all.

Btw I can tell you the objective differences between genres. When I mean that I mean their general ideals, arrangements and a whole host of similar patterns within styles. Not which is better or why jazz is superior. Ironically I think that jazz is just my preferred genre because I do feel more connected with it, because my character fits some of the modern players' style. If you like rock, I'd encourage you to really go into rock and listen to the legends like Jimi, Clapton, SRV, Led Zep, etc. to really understand. If you even read anything that I wrote and the approach that my blog takes perhaps you'll open your eyes and stop criticising before talking like the precious two persons who were arguing with me about the same damn points.

As again stop skimming and read first.

PS I personally think that a lot of brilliant 4/4 rock music being passed up for mass produced crap. I can understand the anguish that many true rock fans feel too. If you want to discuss feel free to.
 
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New post introducing rock - a large favourite amongst musicians nowadays - on my blog is now up.

I'll be introducing my own heroes in rock. If you personally like anyone feel free to ask me to talk about him/her. =)
 
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