MM Lee says, welcome foreign immigrants with open arms

US is definately about 5%. Canada =/= US

That's the problem with the current uni admission. JC students go through a bloody confusing curriculum which changes every so 4 years. Even teachers are confounded by the eer changing curriculum at times. Poly grads have to get a GPA of... okay I can't remeber but it has to be freaking high. Yet foreigners are getting the freaking easy way out.

Canada can probably afford 30% cause there are a lot of universities over there. Singapore has only... 3.
Some things just don't make sense
 
GIve them(foreigners)a break at least...i mean it is not easy for them to pick up English just like that...We studied English since young and had a English speaking environment...They are not like that...

Imagine if we go to France and had to learn French immediately(it is not easy).....it will be kind of stress too......

Why not trying learning chinese instead if you have to speak chinese(not being racist but put yourself in their shoes then perhaps you will understand how tough is it for them to learn english).

Besides I think when the PRC(their accent is not as bad as some)learn english, their pronouciation is much more accurate then most of us here, we Singaporean have a lazy tongue, not willing to pronounce every word loud & clear.....

Besides, we are all human being...inside us all the same, just that place we will born in determine what we will become...it 's nobody's fault...
 
GIve them(foreigners)a break at least...i mean it is not easy for them to pick up English just like that...We studied English since young and had a English speaking environment...They are not like that...

well they choose to come here to work, so they should jolly well know that they have to take up english lessons prior before their arrival here. makes more sense. and basic english lessons are much cheaper in their homeland too.

i believe that, if you ask any singaporean to emmigrate elsewhere for work, they'd probably do a lil bit of survival homework before they head there blindly. well most of the people i know does.
 
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Foreigners are happy with lower pays because they have lesser liabilities in this country. They may not contribute to cpf, are not taxed as much, have few relatives or even no family here, no children to support, no elderly to look after. On the other hand, Singaporeans have to support our families here. We need to take care of our parents, our children's education, our lodging, housing loans blablabla. And income tax. Btw, have you file for your income tax already? Deadline is coming.

The foreigners probably have other things to worry about. But financially, they surely have lesser liabilities. No wonder they are easily contented with lesser pay.


Well said, we have our reasons. Also, we spend our money here, they lug it out of SG. Who is screwing the economy? We speak English, we bear the consequences if we do any damage to Singapores image.They just leave after shitting here.

Whatever it is , Singaporeans , must always come first.
 
As this is a music forum first & foremost - I say SG should adopt Malaysia policy of hiring forign musicians - One foreign band = 1 local band ..


If the authorities can somehow do this and make it work - a lot more SG band boys will be gainfully employed instead ...
 
Haha, here's the deal.

Complain all you want and nothing's gonna work out.

You'll still see China beer girls offering you drinks in kopitiams.
 
Well, I'll get my comments in before this thread is locked and deleted.

I think foreigners (specifically me) should be given much bigger tax breaks, promotions, shorter working weeks and more food.

Alright, got your name onto the "bigger tax breaks" list pal. You can invite me over to play with the kids (and your guitars) later. Still trying to get you onto the "shorter working weeks" list. You already seem to be on the "more food" and "bigger promotions" lists. :D
 
GIve them(foreigners)a break at least...i mean it is not easy for them to pick up English just like that...We studied English since young and had a English speaking environment...They are not like that...

Yes, but as I've said earlier, the mentality with quite a number of them is that they think they can get away by not learning it fast enough. I've know a few people from PRC, who are like that. They are very nice people, pleasant to be with, no problem. Its just that they're not putting in effort. I don't enjoy disseminating their research info because they just give me one whole chunk. Not an effort to even show that they freaking read the thing. Also, my girlfriend has to literally write scripts for them and to make them rehearse their lines all the time. Reason they give: No confidence.

I'm okay if they can't speak English well, but I'm extremely riled if they don't bother putting in the EFFORT. To me, effort counts more than results
 
In Singapore , i don't really see the need proficient in english get ourselves understood. As a group, we aren't speaking english that well to demand our foreigners to be proficient in english.

In fact , there are still many professions from hawkers to TCM practitioners where the primary mode of communication is in mandarin. Not to mention hokkien is still the commonly used in the army and the commonly preferred way insult others. Anyone checked out the previous Mrbrownshow podcast?
 
Yes, but you hardly use Mandarin or hokkien in the army cause you're usually with a company of people from different places. I've got malays, indians, chinese and a bunch of eurasians inside my company last time. common language? English

Bt honestly, at least the basic foundation should be there in my opinion. You don't need to be some expert in the language, but at least master the basics of it as a second language
 
I think foreigners should indeed be welcomed with open arms, I do agree however that a minority of immigrants do cause some social problems but the majority actually contribute to our society. From a simple labourer to a highly skilled doctor these people help Singapore move forward especially with our own population declining and the need for fresh talent at hand. Some of our locals simply don't cut it from the job. How would you like it if you are greeted with the same hostility when immigrating to another country? Consider how you want to be treated and treat others that same way.
 
A bangala cleaner cleans Our RSN repubulic of singapore navy ship and earn about $60 a day..and once he is done he could go home, a regular naval specialist earns $1200 a month which is about $60 a day nt counting the ..weekend duties stay in sailing bla bla bla..,and at the same time our country millitary base is invaded wif foreign cleaners cleaning our beautiful frigates .. => how beautiful ..theres no nid for war for our country to be overtaken..
 
Foreigners are happy with lower pays because they have lesser liabilities in this country. They may not contribute to cpf, are not taxed as much, have few relatives or even no family here, no children to support, no elderly to look after. On the other hand, Singaporeans have to support our families here. We need to take care of our parents, our children's education, our lodging, housing loans blablabla. And income tax. Btw, have you file for your income tax already? Deadline is coming.

The foreigners probably have other things to worry about. But financially, they surely have lesser liabilities. No wonder they are easily contented with lesser pay.

hmm, please get your facts right:

1. foreigners are happy with lower pays because it is still very high comparatively to the average income in their own country.

however,

they use the money to support their family back home. in fact some of them (i wanted to say many, but let's not generalise) chose to go to foreign countries like singapore exactly because they need to, lest their family will not survive given the financial condition back home.

so financially they have similar or even more things to worry about. consider his fact.

2. if you notice and compare, singapore is really really generous in term of income tax. in fact, it has one of the lowest income tax in the world. VAT wise, singapore is one of the last few countries with single digit tax! 7% GST is already good when you discover that in other countries, it's easily hovering around 15%.

and i have yet to mention that singapore is a first world country!
 
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oh, and regarding the local universities (NUS, SMU, NTU),

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i've been indoctrinated soooo much about one of the core value in singapore,

MERITOCRACY

and i should think that the admission criteria in those universities follow that principle..

so, again correct me if i'm wrong on the above statement, but if it is true, then really foreigners are not to blame for the proportion of students in universities..
 
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And on the topic of foreign students.. They don't get the subsidies in education we locals get. They have to pay the full price, especially for polytechnics and universities. It is true they are coming here, but they are also paying a lot for it. I think we should be nice to them.

If you ask me, foreigners are linking Singaporeans to the world because it goes both ways. They come here to learn things, but at the same time we're learning things from them. If we want to be a globalized economy, we need these foreigners to come in. And English is the language that links us to the world, so it's not so important about whether we speak English among ourselves. It is more important that we are proficient enough to communicate with foreigners.

My $0.02...
 
It's kind of funny how Singaporeans complain about foreigner's English.
then there are these foreign native English speakers who complain that they don't understand Singaporean's English or Singaporean can't understand their English (cos of the heavy native accent, etc).

I have like more than 70 Singaporeans in my office, and they speak to each other in Chinese all the time.

English is the most spoken language in the world, but at the same time it is not the only language you can use to understand each other.
The other day I went to Thai Express (City hall branch) for dinner, and they employ a deaf waitress. although she could not speak at all, I could still order my food.

Fact is just like Singaporeans, educated foreigners who speak English prefer not to work as waiter/ waitress, it just doesn't pay well enough. :)
 
They don't get the subsidies in education we locals get. They have to pay the full price, especially for polytechnics and universities. It is true they are coming here, but they are also paying a lot for it.
i don't know about poly's, but you might want to check your info about universities, whether foreign students really are paying for their own tuition, and who it really is who is paying for their education. the government is not the only body that can subsidise tuition. in reality there are many, the university itself included.

firstly, we don't need foreign talent. as it is, locals are not finding jobs. the jobs that are being created by the government are not even in the same industry as the ones being lost. those who were retrenched are still jobless and their lives still collapsed. it would be interesting if the jobs created are taken by foreigners or locals.

of course, why would politicians care? they are only interested in statistics and unemployment percentages. if foreigners come in and take up low skilled jobs, they will boost the employment figures. these figures then help paint a pretty and misleading picture.

it is common among highly industrialised nations (since nobody wants to be called a 'developed' nation anymore) to welcome immigrants. there are several reasons for this:

1. productivity of labour

this has something to do with the supply of labour. developed nations are rich and have alot of assets and capital. the incrimental effect of extra capital is little compared to developing nations. on the other hand, the productivity of labour is higher in developed countries. at the very least, in comparison.

in layman's terminology, there is no point building more and more factories in japan or providing china and india with more and more people. but if you provide china and india with capital, you get high productivity, due to the amount of labour that is readily available (PROVIDED all that labour is skilled and educated, which is another matter).

so for developing countries to converge to the status of developed countries, capital needs to flow from developed countries to developing countries. once again, if workers are educated, labour from developing countries can move to developed countries where there is alot of capital to be utilised.

to this point, by the words of MM Lee himself, we are NOT a developed country yet. i am not here to disagree with that. in fact i don't know. there is too much confusion and facts are distorted, claims unsubstantiated.

2. population growth

it is common sense that the labour force is directly proportionate to population growth. there is causality in that, unless you think that parents are raising morons nowadays (which might also be true...).

the inflow of foreign workers aside, the singapore population is actually growing. some of you may think otherwise, but the media loves to publicise the social problems of this issue, thing like romance, attitude among young adults, some minister's daughter who doesnt want to get married; all kinds of unsubstantiated fluff.

the significance is that, in a growing population, the labour force is growing. never mind the replacement of older workers, the reality is that not enough jobs are even being created. do we need foreign workers?

now compare ourselves with a truly developed nation like japan; their population is actually shrinking. there are not enough workers to replace the ones who are retiring. this is where the country really needs skilled, educated workers. and don't get distracted by news of foreigners being retrenched and sent home in the auto industry, that is not a matter of a falling labour demand. it is merely due to the failures of the auto industry, foreign exchange, and other exogenous factors. it is a different industry than where the demand lies.

but i'm sure we are much more than units of 'labour'. we are human beings too. we pay such a high price for being a born citizen of this country, especially the men, and yet it is so cheap for foreigners to come here- probably one of the easiest place to migrate to in the world.

i think we are losing the point about foreign labour. do they have any interest in being part of our society, or are they gonna remain 'foreigners' until the day they leave? what exactly is being done on their part? can they even communicate with the minority races in singapore?

personally, as time goes by i feel more and more distant from the values and the goals of the government, as well as the values of some of the people in it.
 
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hmm, please get your facts right:

1. foreigners are happy with lower pays because it is still very high comparatively to the average income in their own country.

however,

they use the money to support their family back home. in fact some of them (i wanted to say many, but let's not generalise) chose to go to foreign countries like singapore exactly because they need to, lest their family will not survive given the financial condition back home.

so financially they have similar or even more things to worry about. consider his fact.

2. if you notice and compare, singapore is really really generous in term of income tax. in fact, it has one of the lowest income tax in the world. VAT wise, singapore is one of the last few countries with single digit tax! 7% GST is already good when you discover that in other countries, it's easily hovering around 15%.

and i have yet to mention that singapore is a first world country!

Valid point, but that doesnt make my argument any wrong either. My observations are fact as well. You are thinking from the perspective of a foreigner but I on the other hand, is coming for a local's point of view. And how will you account for those high-ranking caucasian expatriate who come to Singapore to work? Are you also suggesting that they are paid higher in Singapore than back in their hometown?

And please put on your reading glasses. I understand and did mention briefly that they too have to support families back in their hometown, but they do have "LESS LIABILITIES IN THIS COUNTRY". And precisely that our currency is stronger, or that some are paid higher for the same job they do back in their country, they can better support their families back in their country. I specifically said "IN THIS COUNTRY", and I did give the benefit of doubt that they "probably have other things to worry about", but IN THIS COUNTRY, they have less financial liabilities, because in this country, they have only themselves to support (ok, i assumed that they came alone, you can fault me for that).
 
I think I have to disagree with your point of view.

"if foreigners come in and take up low skilled jobs, they will boost the employment figures. these figures then help paint a pretty and misleading picture."
Employment figures only matter in percentage, the bigger the employment percentage the better the country looks, bringing in foreginers do not boost the employment percentage. In fact, it might decrease it. But then employmeny/unemployment census might not even include foreigners in the picture.

Be honest and ask yourself this question "if foreigners do not come in and take up low skilled jobs, who is going to?". low skill labors are not even directly competing with Singaporeans, simply because no Singaporean would want to do the job (if there are I am pretty sure they'll be hired right away, which employer wants to take the trouble to apply for work visa, arrange accomodation, etc?).

You can't really compare Japan to Singapore,You can take part-time job in Japan and still save enough to travel overseas. You can't really do that in Singapore but as a result Food stuff and daily necessities costs are higher in Japan.

It's all plus and minus.
 
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