rottenramone
Active member
so bro EngelFaeuste, just curious.
where will u be migrating to?
where will u be migrating to?
MM Lee says, welcome foreign immigrants with open arms
- Thread starter growlingsoulpup
- Start date
my dad was an immigrant back in the day. he was from the philippines. in order to get his citizenship, he had to go through an english proficiency test (although he had already graduated from NUS 5 years before). so it angers him now that he can't even order food from the kopitiams, because the china workers only speak mandarin.
i suppose my point is, MM got it right by saying immigrants do need to brush up on english, since it is the common language for our generation.
i suppose my point is, MM got it right by saying immigrants do need to brush up on english, since it is the common language for our generation.
ymmak
New member
Yes, the MRT was already very crowded. But back then, it was crowded with Singaporeans, now it is crowded with... new singaporeans.
I remembered that when I was in primary school, the foreigners are the foreign talents, like engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. These foreign talents are professionals, and they are just what Singapore needed. So it seems logical to attract more foreign talents.
Then, when I was in secondary school, the foreigners who came were mostly the study mommy and daddy, with mediocre skills. Around this time, I begin to observe that even mediacorp was employing more foreign artistes. So it appears that not just the highly skilled foreigners are here, the less skillful ones are also coming.
Nowadays, the foreigners I encounter, are mostly the low-skilled, less educated workers, like construction workers, waiter, waitresses, janitors, bus drivers etc. So me, as a layman, seem to observe that Singapore is welcoming foreigners blindly. Such aggregate planning to boost the population does not really sit well with me.
The earlier batch of foreign talents (docs, engineers etc) will definitely make Singaporeans wake up and be more competitive. After all, with more 'brains', be it local or foreign, the overall population mix is smarter. But I do not see how the newly-arrived foreigners (so happen are the less educated ones) can help to improve our society, besides filling up menial jobs.
I think that most post-baby boomer Singaporeans are quite highly educated, and can definitely hold their own against the influx of foreigners. They probably can effectively compete against them and will not easily feel so threatened by them. However, the more senior generation of Singaporeans will probably feel the threat. You cannot blame them, back in their youths in the 60s or early 70s, they didnt have as much opportunity as today. Yet they had great optimism and joined those training courses so frequently promoted by the government. But here comes the foreigners and snatch their jobs. If you belong to this group of more senior Singaporeans, how will you feel?
On top of that, I do not want to see myself, 40 years down the road after retirement, having to compete with a lowly-skilled foreigner for a job at McDonalds.
I have nothing against foreigners. Some of my best pals in school and NS werent born in Singapore too. But I think we should open our doors to foreign talents, not just any kuching kurak foriegners. Lastly, we should be even more discriminate as to who are allowed to be granted citizenship.
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EngelFaeuste
New member
Take a guess, where do SG Law school rejects go?
edit: No offense intended but it's "Emigrate", only animals migrate.
Oh and I re-read my post, it IS quite offensive, not really intentional as my head was hurting when I typed it. Well, the main idea is still there, just that I could have been more tactful.
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rottenramone
Active member
eh, i'm not in tune with the legal industry here, so i won't know which country.
anyways, movement to another country is always an enriching experience, like discovering a new world, and also discovering/experimenting who u really are. there are some countries who give u that space.
singapore is definitely not under that list, i can see it trying over the years to change itself, not just the buildings, but also the people. and it understands that singaporeans will have to move along with the times. but the problem is twofold: once u tasted a better life outside, would u want to come back and live here? and once u leave, who's gonna take over you? yes, its not your problem. but the govt has paid for most of your education here. they're making a loss when u leave.
i can see the problems arising from the brain drain, that's why the govt began courting the foreigners. but on the other side of the coin, they also started courting the "quitters" back, telling them to stay in touch and don't forget to eat your belachan. at any point in time when our ex-singaporeans decide to move back, we have the carpet welcoming them home.
my point is that u shd head out, but let's not whine abt how bleah singapore is. give the society a chance to grow. we're still young and there's mistakes to be made. and once u made your name overseas, do come back. the straits times will have a life column of u describing u as "singapore-born lawyer"
btw, i really like this ad. malaysian, but same director as the funeral one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fRPpSYr220
theliverevolution
New member
Foreign emigrants, I can still tahan, but perhaps we should start reducing the no. of foreigners that come to our universities to study. I'm fortunate to have gotten a place in uni, studying what I want to study, but it saddens me to think of the number of frens who are forced to go overseas to pursue what they want to study.
Of course, doesn't help that the unis are expending their quota to accomodate more foreign students. =.=
Of course, doesn't help that the unis are expending their quota to accomodate more foreign students. =.=
rottenramone
Active member
i'm ok with foreign students, but gotta make sure they get the hot lookin ones pls. and make sure they're broke, so they can moonlight as bartop dancers.
growlingsoulpup
New member
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet! Well kudos to SOFTies for not senselessly bashing the gahmen like HWZ does.
Personally, I have nothing against foreigners who live in Singapore. History has shown us again and again that xenophobic societies are the ones that don't survive. In this current competitive global climate, it's only sensible that we should welcome talent who can strengthen our competitive edge.
That said, I do think we should practice caution and discernment when opening our doors to the foreign talent. A multi-racial, multi-religious society like ours is always going to be very delicate in terms of tension and balance. Allowing too many immigrants in at one time could disrupt the social cohesion that we've worked so hard to build.
Furthermore, what steps are we taking to ensure that these foreign immigrants bring their hearts together with them? I know quite a few PRC people, and most, if not all of them, still consider China to be their home. If and when conflict occurs, what guarantee do we have that these people will take our side? I'm not saying this as an insult but as a point of fact. Singaporeans go through 2 years of national service plus annual reservist training. We know where we stand when arms are drawn and bullets are about to be fired. Can these foreigners say the same thing?
Food for thought, yo.
Personally, I have nothing against foreigners who live in Singapore. History has shown us again and again that xenophobic societies are the ones that don't survive. In this current competitive global climate, it's only sensible that we should welcome talent who can strengthen our competitive edge.
That said, I do think we should practice caution and discernment when opening our doors to the foreign talent. A multi-racial, multi-religious society like ours is always going to be very delicate in terms of tension and balance. Allowing too many immigrants in at one time could disrupt the social cohesion that we've worked so hard to build.
Furthermore, what steps are we taking to ensure that these foreign immigrants bring their hearts together with them? I know quite a few PRC people, and most, if not all of them, still consider China to be their home. If and when conflict occurs, what guarantee do we have that these people will take our side? I'm not saying this as an insult but as a point of fact. Singaporeans go through 2 years of national service plus annual reservist training. We know where we stand when arms are drawn and bullets are about to be fired. Can these foreigners say the same thing?
Food for thought, yo.
What's the point in apologising after you have insulted someone?
It's basically saying the same as Fark You! and end with a smiley, as alot of spoilt singaporean kids do nowadays.
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theliverevolution
New member
well, i have to agree with you for once.
Yes, we welcome foreigners. There's no problem with that. They add flavour to our life, at we get at least a 2nd hand idea of how other countries are like.
But, when is it TOO much?
Think about it. How loyal are these foreigners to Singapore? How many of them will shift out of Singapore and jump to another country when the time comes?
Yes, we welcome foreigners. There's no problem with that. They add flavour to our life, at we get at least a 2nd hand idea of how other countries are like.
But, when is it TOO much?
Think about it. How loyal are these foreigners to Singapore? How many of them will shift out of Singapore and jump to another country when the time comes?
First of all, HWZ is not representative of our entire population. I have been going there since 2002 so I am not entirely foreign to the reaction there nor the slangs and lingos used there. I am your typical milo-peng-sipping SG dude who has an excellent command of the hokkien dictionary which I use from time to time to get some facts across.
I think we should take a cue from our forefathers, learn to better ourselves and be more tolerant to these immigrants. Don't expect them to learn English overnight, at least give them a chance to assimilate to the local lifestyle, culture, language and lingo.
However, I think it is important to have a stringent process such that we only allow skilled workers to immigrate here. The inability of workers to speak elementary english is inexcusable.
Many Singaporeans are having this knee jerk negative reaction about the influx of immigrants while doing nothing to make themselves relevant for the global market. And if you think that only Singaporeans are serving NS and foreigners are getting our jobs, think otherwise. There are a lot of developed countries still conscripting their citizens for their armed forces and they have immigrants who are also not required to serve their equivalent of NS. The bottom line is that this is happening everywhere. For local born boys who have yet to enlist, you don't even have the right to whine.
As for older workers getting laid off, I truly feel for them. My dad got retrenched some time ago. I was half way into my degree overseas at that time and had to return abruptly. And no, I can't get into the local university since I wasted a big portion of my youth on useless endeavors. I can safely assume my situation is not unique. If I really have to blame something, I'd rather blame the cost cutting measures to benefit shareholders than the average dude who came here to work. But if you have to choose between competing with foreign workers or having way lesser jobs due to the high wages (compared to the region) dissuading MNCs in setting up their operations here, I'm very sure most of you will choose the former. I don't think its fair but thats life.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, I'm definitely not going to shun those new guys who are probably frustrated at being not able to adapt here. At the same time, I'm going to order my next meal at a kopitiam in english.
I think we should take a cue from our forefathers, learn to better ourselves and be more tolerant to these immigrants. Don't expect them to learn English overnight, at least give them a chance to assimilate to the local lifestyle, culture, language and lingo.
However, I think it is important to have a stringent process such that we only allow skilled workers to immigrate here. The inability of workers to speak elementary english is inexcusable.
Many Singaporeans are having this knee jerk negative reaction about the influx of immigrants while doing nothing to make themselves relevant for the global market. And if you think that only Singaporeans are serving NS and foreigners are getting our jobs, think otherwise. There are a lot of developed countries still conscripting their citizens for their armed forces and they have immigrants who are also not required to serve their equivalent of NS. The bottom line is that this is happening everywhere. For local born boys who have yet to enlist, you don't even have the right to whine.
As for older workers getting laid off, I truly feel for them. My dad got retrenched some time ago. I was half way into my degree overseas at that time and had to return abruptly. And no, I can't get into the local university since I wasted a big portion of my youth on useless endeavors. I can safely assume my situation is not unique. If I really have to blame something, I'd rather blame the cost cutting measures to benefit shareholders than the average dude who came here to work. But if you have to choose between competing with foreign workers or having way lesser jobs due to the high wages (compared to the region) dissuading MNCs in setting up their operations here, I'm very sure most of you will choose the former. I don't think its fair but thats life.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, I'm definitely not going to shun those new guys who are probably frustrated at being not able to adapt here. At the same time, I'm going to order my next meal at a kopitiam in english.
EngelFaeuste
New member
Well, since you put it that way, I will rephrase the apology as directed to everyone else but you.
FARK YOU!!!
*blows raspberry and points two middle fingers*
..|..
quiverpool
New member
The message was clear from the government that Singapore needs people to power the economy - combined power from people who are native or foreigner.
Fact: Singapore is at a threat of a dwindling population.
For dudes who are against the idea of foreigners...try foresee yourself in the future when you are old. Thinking might give you some answers.
Fact: Singapore is at a threat of a dwindling population.
For dudes who are against the idea of foreigners...try foresee yourself in the future when you are old. Thinking might give you some answers.
gutturalpiss
New member
Yeah, alright. So let's start practising to clear out the refuse and clean void decks.
You bastards. You won't do the jobs but at the same time you won't allow people who're willing to do it to actually..do it. Great. More stupid fvcks in this country. That's what we really need. No wonder the smarter ones are getting out.
You bastards. You won't do the jobs but at the same time you won't allow people who're willing to do it to actually..do it. Great. More stupid fvcks in this country. That's what we really need. No wonder the smarter ones are getting out.
amnesiac
New member
What's the point in apologizing? lol? Ever heard of something called manners?
theliverevolution
New member
I'm only against the rising no. of foreign students that come here to study in the local unis. They're bumping out deserving local students out of the place.
But I admit that if they want to work in Singapore, they have to adapt to us, and not we adapt to them. Yes, many people from PRC are coming over here to study, to work, etc. But what I'm exceptionally pissed about is that they are refusing to adapt to the system here when they should be.
Or maybe its just the PRCs that are so.
Fact:
NAFA has a lot of PRC students. Every year, they pick qutie a large number of deserving students to come over to Singapore to study art, in exchange for them working in Singapore for a few years after that (they pay full school fees, just in case you're wondering)
My girlfriend is in NAFA, and I know some of her classmates as well. Most come from PRC, and what really riles me is their stubborn nature NOT to adapt to learning English (This is the most basic of the problems)
The other day I went out with my girl and a few of her friends. One of the guys was asking me to help him buy some stuff from a particular shop. This was the actual convo we had: (It was in chinese)
Me: Er.. Can't you ask the salesgirl yourself? Why? Shy ar?
Guy: No, I don't understand English.
Me: Like don't NAFA force you to take lessons? Surely you know some basics
Guy: No, lazy to study. No point to study anyway
I was like... WTFOMGBBQ?!
I wanted to lecture him right on the spot, but I wasn't able to. My chinese is... exceptionally poor. Apart from basic speech, I'm deemed illeterate in that subject.
Scenario 2:
My girlfriend always complain about her work in school, about it being too stressful, projects are not really going anywhere due to many problems. When I asked her why, she complains about the amount of work she has to do.
On top of her own group research, she has to constantly read through her group members research, sort through those that are relevant, translate them from chinese to English, type out the whole group report, prepare speeches for them and make sure they can speak correctly when the presentation day comes...
Me: Wait... How come you must do all these? Can't they do it themselves?
Her: All my teammates from China, still don't know how to speak English, not even basics..
Fine, qutie badly exaggerated
But surely there is a problem here.
I do not see the point in we have to adapt to them when they are in OUR homeland. It should be THEY adapt to our lifestyle, culture, values, pros, flaws, etc and not the other way round.
It was exceptionally annoying the other day when I sat down to this PRC on the train, who was talking loudly over the phone. Even with my headphones on, I could still hear her freaking conversation. And I was getting showers of blessing.
Until I got so fed up I stood up and opened an umbrella in her direction, in the MRT.
(In the end I got some scolding from her for being rude but that's okay cause I don't really care and I'm illeterate in that language anyway
)
i;m not against the idea of foreigners coming to our country.
But please, I don't want to hear you gripe and lovelovelovelovelove about our country and prasing your homeland while you're sitting at the kopitiam enjoying your roti prata
But I admit that if they want to work in Singapore, they have to adapt to us, and not we adapt to them. Yes, many people from PRC are coming over here to study, to work, etc. But what I'm exceptionally pissed about is that they are refusing to adapt to the system here when they should be.
Or maybe its just the PRCs that are so.
Fact:
NAFA has a lot of PRC students. Every year, they pick qutie a large number of deserving students to come over to Singapore to study art, in exchange for them working in Singapore for a few years after that (they pay full school fees, just in case you're wondering)
My girlfriend is in NAFA, and I know some of her classmates as well. Most come from PRC, and what really riles me is their stubborn nature NOT to adapt to learning English (This is the most basic of the problems)
The other day I went out with my girl and a few of her friends. One of the guys was asking me to help him buy some stuff from a particular shop. This was the actual convo we had: (It was in chinese)
Me: Er.. Can't you ask the salesgirl yourself? Why? Shy ar?
Guy: No, I don't understand English.
Me: Like don't NAFA force you to take lessons? Surely you know some basics
Guy: No, lazy to study. No point to study anyway
I was like... WTFOMGBBQ?!
I wanted to lecture him right on the spot, but I wasn't able to. My chinese is... exceptionally poor. Apart from basic speech, I'm deemed illeterate in that subject.
Scenario 2:
My girlfriend always complain about her work in school, about it being too stressful, projects are not really going anywhere due to many problems. When I asked her why, she complains about the amount of work she has to do.
On top of her own group research, she has to constantly read through her group members research, sort through those that are relevant, translate them from chinese to English, type out the whole group report, prepare speeches for them and make sure they can speak correctly when the presentation day comes...
Me: Wait... How come you must do all these? Can't they do it themselves?
Her: All my teammates from China, still don't know how to speak English, not even basics..
Fine, qutie badly exaggerated
But surely there is a problem here.
I do not see the point in we have to adapt to them when they are in OUR homeland. It should be THEY adapt to our lifestyle, culture, values, pros, flaws, etc and not the other way round.
It was exceptionally annoying the other day when I sat down to this PRC on the train, who was talking loudly over the phone. Even with my headphones on, I could still hear her freaking conversation. And I was getting showers of blessing.
Until I got so fed up I stood up and opened an umbrella in her direction, in the MRT.
(In the end I got some scolding from her for being rude but that's okay cause I don't really care and I'm illeterate in that language anyway
)i;m not against the idea of foreigners coming to our country.
But please, I don't want to hear you gripe and lovelovelovelovelove about our country and prasing your homeland while you're sitting at the kopitiam enjoying your roti prata
umm duh...
Would any of u guys be willing to work as cleaners, construction workers, janitors, maids, rubbish collectors etc? How many of u guys are willing to work odd hours + graveyard shift etc?.. Lots of these jobs though unglam, are really necessary.
Have to be thankful that they're around. I personally won't know what ill do without my foreign maid. Got 2 preschoolers to care for and both me and my wife are working. My foreign colleagues are a lot more willing to help out with odd hour shifts/calls compared to my local colleagues.
About a quarter to half the nurses (guesstimate) at local hospitals are probably foreigners. More so at private hospitals then goverment one though. I think it would be impossible for Singapore to run properly at all without them.
Would any of u guys be willing to work as cleaners, construction workers, janitors, maids, rubbish collectors etc? How many of u guys are willing to work odd hours + graveyard shift etc?.. Lots of these jobs though unglam, are really necessary.
Have to be thankful that they're around. I personally won't know what ill do without my foreign maid. Got 2 preschoolers to care for and both me and my wife are working. My foreign colleagues are a lot more willing to help out with odd hour shifts/calls compared to my local colleagues.
About a quarter to half the nurses (guesstimate) at local hospitals are probably foreigners. More so at private hospitals then goverment one though. I think it would be impossible for Singapore to run properly at all without them.
extremers
New member
they know we're pro in english already.
now got speak mandarin campaign. we can use this to understand them (however poor our mandarin or language illiterate it is).
LOL!
reminds me of a classmate back in poly. throughout the 30 minutes presentation, he only spoke "this... is... the button" while pointing in the diagram. i do applaud foreign students who took the time and effort to at least speak english especially during presentations at school but that one takes the cake.
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