madmonkeykungfu - good for the local scene or not?

[Newbie]

Btw to add on to some comments made earlier on.


IMO, we comment and critic but people take it the hard way, it is really saddening. Why? Because people don't accept and change/be better, they tend to screw up the whole system. What system are we talking about? Singapore's music industry.

Some people just suck in something, they don't change, go out perform, masses and people see, stereotype "Oh SG local scene really CMI". And people still happily think they're doing so fine cause friends are supporting maybe?

Drift away abit if you don't mind. Lucky got people like Electrico, The Suns etc. They give local scene a bit of hope and inspiration. But please, inspiration doesn't mean you go on stage unprepared thinking your music is really good.

People say, "why music industy don't succeed? cause you people don't give us a chance."


From my bassist: Singapore's music industry is a sad thing. No offence to anyone. Too many noobs and shit bands are getting too much opportunites and too few good band who don't get any.

 

[Mobius]

Ours is an asian culture that has been always conservative and diplomatic about our views. If u look at the western forums, they attack each other like nobody's business.

For criticism of OMs also depends on the individual's preference of music. For me I am not a fan of shredding, I get kinda turnoff by them and so watever comments that i pose will be bias, I probably wont give anything that is constructive so I jus don comment on shredding OMs. Its like askin Britney Spears to be a judge on a heavy metal band competition or askin Slipknot to be the judges of American Idol, its just aint goin to work...

I think criticisms will only be useful if the person has the same or similar taste in musical styles. Cos if u have a bias against the certain style of music, ur crticisms wont be constructive at all.

Some people are jus born and bred to be "nice and diplomatic", its no fault of them to be carebears. So One point to note is that always take carebear comments with a large pinch of salt. Don pat urself on ur back too much, u may just break ur spine...

So the final say is that only comment on something u have an interest in and be specific in your comments. But if u really feel that piece of music is really good, jus say its good. Don jus criticise jus because u are afraid of being labelled a carebear.

 

[candie]

Criticism is necessary. Harsh criticism, on the other hand, is redundant. Be honest, but don't be cruel. You don't have to diss other people to give constructive comments

Oh and as for the other 'carebears', they are essential too, everyone needs a little encouragement once in a while.

 

[mingguan]

I think criticisms will only be useful if the person has the same or similar taste in musical styles. Cos if u have a bias against the certain style of music, ur crticisms wont be constructive at all.

Agree.
However, only true friends will tell you the truth.

For me, after I write something, I will send for my friends (who are close enough to tell me truth, have certain level of music knowledge, and like the same genre of music) to comment.

As they have more exposure to the same genre of music, they can comment more detail by stating some example for me to understand more.

As they have some music knowledge, they can also easily point out some musical error, or some suggestion/alternative to song.

They dare to comment as they know I appreciate their comment & I will not be offended even there are a lot of criticise.

One important thing is... they can express their opinion very well in words.

 

[jf_element]

whoa madmonkeykungfu gets an ad space in the soft main page.. maybe if i stir up some confusion i get to be publicised too.. =P

is this really -that- big an issue..?

 

[Cheez]

Big issue or not, it got you (and me) to post in this thread! :lol:

 

[mingguan]

Hm... this is the only one thread iin SOFT that I required to think very deeply...
:smt017

 

[The-Warlord]

I think a few waves can only be healthy. Its nice to see some bullets in the fire - like Monkey said, there is an imbalance, and it needs to be restored.

 

[Judas]

hmmm... i read through all the comments and i agree with most of the commnets...

Yes we need honest and candid comments, but how many people actually can give these kind of comments in a diplomatic fashion? Comments if given too frankly will cause people to dislike coming here. Yet we cannot always give good comments to bad pieces of music. So what i suggest is that the Open Mic and Kopitiam sections be open to honest comments, but moderaters must maintain the sections to see that no inflamatory comments are made.

 

[DoubleBlade]

To tell you guys the truth , I have been pondering on the issue on whether receiving good or bad constructive critisms does indeed make a musician progress further....

I shall talk on the personal side of me now. I know I used to get dissed on SOFT for my sloppish OMs. The critisms I got from a handful of SOFTies were more on the negative side but constructive of course. I think sometimes it does pay to be blunt in commenting another person's OM but please mind the language of course. Although these comments may be constructive and yet morally destructive to a musician , I guess we musicians should learn to face up to the truth and use harsh critisms received to their own advantage. At least use it as a mirror as a form of reflection and realise we needs to be done and improved on.

Just a little observation of mine over the months I've been a member of SOFT. I noticed that I'm the only one who receives destructive but yet constructive comments for my OMs (James , Turbochicken , Chanmin). That's why I've stopped posting my OMs here unless of course I'm confident that the OM is worth every minute of your time commenting on it....

Actually I was thinking of posting a demo of a particular self composed piece today which I'm currently working on now but after reading this post........I'm procrastinating :roll:

 

[DoubleBlade]

So what i suggest is that the Open Mic and Kopitiam sections be open to honest comments, but moderaters must maintain the sections to see that no inflamatory comments are made.

AGREED

 

[legin]

yea i agreeee tooo.if its too much the moderators should step in.

 

[madmonkeykungfu]

carebears who do not care enough

Haha. What's the ad space about?

There are people who are hard with their words, those who are the in-betweens and those who are flaccid. Unless comments include degradatory, racist or personal attacks, I do not see why honest feedbacks should be censored or moderated. Bands should get to see the good the bad and the ugly feedbacks.

Again some might not agree with me but the issue here lies with the moderation. This is actually not about getting the forumers to become brutal honest or critical all of a sudden or anything. Those who patronises can continue with their patronising. It somehow strikes me that whenever the "not so positive" comments appear, the moderator is too quick to try to step in.

Does a person who merely post "this band sucks" not have the same right to post compared to a uncaring carebear who posts "awesome!!!!!!"? Although unconstructive, both are still a form of feedback to a band or a musician. Don't be too quick to judge. None of us are that level yet.

Arguments are good. When the supporters and the naysayers engage in a debate, you know the band's existence is justified, because people simply talk about them.

So again what is the big deal? This is not calling for any revolution. This is just about letting people speak.

And why am I getting that ad space? Because I speak my mind?

 

[mingguan]

Actually I was thinking of posting a demo of a particular self composed piece today which I'm currently working on now but after reading this post........

Don't ever give up!!!

We will always be here to tell you where you are.

 

[Judas]

Re: carebears who do not care enough

Does a person who merely post "this band sucks" not have the same right to post compared to a uncaring carebear who posts "awesome!!!!!!"? Although unconstructive, both are still a form of feedback to a band or a musician. Don't be too quick to judge. None of us are that level yet.

i think this is a problem which most forums face, spammers who just come in with a 1 liner and disappear without any reason...

 

[madmonkeykungfu]

Re: carebears who do not care enough

i think this is a problem which most forums face, spammers who just come in with a 1 liner and disappear without any reason...

those who comes and go, will come and go. Trolls exist everywhere.

 

[Timex]

Constructive analysis of a piece of work is always good. The problem is often not the critique but the rude remarks that come with it.

Maybe we should condition ourselves to give our views on both sides. If we hear a piece, we should say out its strenght and weakness.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion but being rude or vulgar is off limits.

 

[Vaiyen]

Technically, anyone can say anything he wants, barring extremely volatile topics,
but at the end of it, remember that the way you choose to say something speaks volumes about yourself.
You don't have to be spiteful and vindictive to get a point across.
Diplomacy is an art, and it requires a whole lot more thought and learning than rabid bashing.

 

[BlackMoo]

I find madmonkey's views valid and reasonable. When I post my stuff (hardly) , I really don't mind the criticisms. Not EVERYBODY has go critique. Some just wanna drop by to tell them how much they appreciated the music. I can name some misguided musicians who are so obsessed with wanting serious critiques, "what do you think of this" and whatnot, defeating the purpose of music, to reach the audience. They just want to shamelessly batter away at technicality, neglecting the emotions in songs.

Ok I'm talking cock now.
My view is... critique your views if you're obliged, and show appreciation. This may have been mentioned, but I just support this motive.

 

[AvonRellets]

carebears should die. Madmonkeykungfu is a collective of individuals who think the local scene should open their eyes and ears rather than carebear whoring. Sorry we rather be hard.

Actually this "carebear whoring" is more of a SOFT.com problem rather than a "local scene" problem.

- A majority of posters here are young and relatively new to the scene. Thus some tend to have an "inexperienced" (a more appropriate word would be childish) view on things and thus the quality of posts here reflect that. I can't remember the number of times I've slapped my forehead in exasperation when I see senseless topics in the Kopi-Tiam section. Not to mention the amount of "me too" replies in many topics.

- Perhaps to some musicians, SOFT.com is all they have as a means to communicate to the local scene. So carebearing is inevitable, when someone from the "outside" comes in and says something that is perceived as an attack on the institution. Its not so much the moderators (AFAIK, there's only James doing the moderating) but also the numerous "yes men"

- Its easier to be nice and say "wow i like it" because thats all you need to say, rather than "I don't like it ..." and then feel obliged to write a 1000 word essay to justify your dislike.

This topic can talk until the cows come home, give birth and die. Ultimately, mr. madmonkeykungfu, though your views are valid and I do very much feel your pain, we have to understand that young people read and post here. Older, and hopefully wiser, musicians and people in the scene have to lead by example to the younger ones by posting responsibly and appropriately, and I hope that along the way, those values will rub off on them on them.