Hi all! I’m not posting this to whine, but just to let you all know what this guy is.
- Thread starter leecs
- Start date
Don't doubt the community when you're in the wrong, little boy.
Next time, when you don't even have the money to buy something, don't fool with others' trust and time. It is alright, everyone makes mistakes when we're young, apologise and move on. But, feel remorseful please. I can't even feel a sense of guilt from you.
Pathetic rich-kid. Only quantity, no quality.
)
weckl-x
New member
It largely depends on whether leecs has a record of messages from marxist, and what those messages contained, how they were worded, etc.
Anyway, few people will pursue legal action over something like this.
I wasn't saying it should be done, or that it would be easy, or that leecs should consider it, but to highlight to marxist that he shouldn't be thinking that his 'sorry' is going to clear the plate.
But thankfully, no money changed hands.
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edder
New member
Let's predict max's next response.
noticed some similarity in their speech pattern isn't it?
Blodstyre
New member
I'm hurt....i own a good piece of wood...but i can't even do the Em chord...how arh leecs bro....teach me leii.....make me play gooder....
~meh~
i don't think that's something up to us to decide. after all, judgement is not meant to be for us. In any case, this is a good lesson for softies out there.
1. Even its a local musicians' community, its still an anonymous forum. anyone out there can still pull a stunt like this, simply because its not difficult to do so. So trust wisely.
2. Bidding on ebay and winning the auction is like paying using a credit card, in the sense that you pledge to pay the amount you bid, like how a credit card works (promising to pay what you have swiped). Just because you realised you bid on something u didn't really like doesn't mean you can back out of it once the auction has been finalised. This is a commitment. I once bid on a bf2 that i didn't need, but won it (surprisingly)... I still paid for it; was tight for a couple of months, but 'hey, it was my mistake after all."
p.s. bf2 still for sale *SPAM* =P
fuzztremecho
New member
bro leecs
just wanna know, the sms between you and marxist, are they kept?
just wanna know, the sms between you and marxist, are they kept?
Arsony
New member
Whoa, whoa. Hold your horses people. I think this whole discussion is turning really ugly and is definitely not going anywhere. The way I see it, it's the typical something wrong happens, issue is made public and various individuals takes a jab at the free-for-all meat market.
Let me make my stand clear. Although I'm a junior member, I'm no kid, let alone rich kid. I'm a 35 year old professional and yes I come from a very humble background. I believe in doing the right things first and the first things right. That's how I try to lead my life. So here goes and help me God.
Now this is a very common bad habit that we have in our country and it exists in all organisations to an extent that it has become a culture of sorts. When something bad happens, everybody just want to find out who is to be blamed and when they do, everyone just wants to punish the fella or see him suffer. Nobody is interested in finding a solution / remedy for the problem which in fact is more important. Why have we become such a punitive society?! I have my beliefs as to why it has become like that but it's irrelevant here....
So let's all stop the insults and unnecessary hurtful remarks like the one quoted above, find a remedy and hopefully, we can all learn from this experience and then put it behind us and move on.
Firstly, I think both parties are guilty of some less than desirable decision makings to begin with...
Marxist :
1) Let's face it, you're a 17 yr old student and no matter how rich your family is, that money you have is not yours. It is worse if your decisions in purchasing something like a guitar has to depend on whether your parents approve of your spending. So in view of this, you should have discussed with your parents first before getting somebody , anybody to get something for you. If you go into a store and ordered something and the storekeeper prepared it for you only to find you returning a day later saying that oh... you cant come up with the funds, then obviously he's gonna be upset cos what you did was wrong. So SOFTies... the remark "Got no money , dont buy..." may be a inappropriate here cos at 17, for all intents and purposes, you aint got NO MONEY, it's not something you earn. Fullstop.
2) You don't get somebody who you hardly know to go into any contractual agreement whether it directly or indirectly involves you. This goes for anything else in life be it leisure or business. All this while, we all (or at least I) were not fully aware as to why you decided to get a fellow forummer , a stranger, to do the bidding. Cant you do it yourself? Cant your family member or someone you're close to do it for you? Unless of course there are reasons why you dont want your family/parents to know.
3) When something goes wrong, you nip it at the bud and you settle it at your own level. Which means, you get back to the person you are dealing with directly and early and sort things out nicely before it escalates. Even if the remedy may not be so simple, you still would call or in this case try to meet and apologise. And when you apologise, be simple and direct about it. It makes it sound more sincere. After all, it's a mistake you made and problem you caused.
Leecs:
1) Man.... I assume like the rest of the SOFTies here who are so ready to hurl abuse and insults at someone you call a "kid" ...... I assume that you're a lot older and thus more prudent in your approach to any given situation right? I mean being nice is good. And i'm sure you're a helluva nice guy, but I gathered that you dun know Marxist next to Adam and you helped him bid for something that a) cost $800 in total, not considering that he is a student, a minor and obviously someone not gainfully employed? b) went against your better reasoning even when you knew the ad is a hoax/scam?
I'm sorry. Like I said, I'm sure you're a helluva nice guy but this has nothing to do with being nice. I mean, do you carry a sealed box thru the causeway just because your friend (not even a stranger!) tells you that it contains nothing illegal? Obviously not...right?
You should not have done what you did and instead should stand your ground and advised him against doing so.
2) If you know his contact details, his hp no, and so far he is not avoiding you, then why post the no. up for? What good does that do? So that the rest of the people can ridicule the "kid" and call him names? Like I said, I assume you're older and wiser.
Come on..... were we not 17 once? Young and foolish. Not having enough money (not even having own money for that matter!) but still wants some luxury , naive/idealistic enough to think that good things can come for cheap? HKD88 cheap? I just sold my amp to a student for cheap , not because i dont have better offers and not because i think that he bluff me cos he got rich parents. But because he's a student..... I see myself in him. I was there. I had no money to buy an electric even. Practised everything on an old classical guitar that I found ; neck broken and I taped it back.
Let's face it ... we all have been there and yes, because we're naive and foolish, we made some bad mistakes in our lives before. I know I did. But you know something, I would not have appreciated fellow forummers, most of which i know are a lot older, wiser and probably better guitar players who I LOOK UP to end up ridiculing me, calling me names and hurling abuse at me. A forum like all other good community nurtures people, educates them and at times, help them up when they've fallen.
* So come on fellas, let's break it up and stop all this. Let the parties involved contact each other and find some form of resolution . After all, it's a mess they're in because both parties were not careful in approaching the situation. I believe, like all the other web communities that i'm a member of, SOFTies truly care for each other and let's behave like we do. I'm sorry if I had stepped on some raw nerves or offended anybody. I'm just a concern member and felt that someone has to step in and remedy the situation.
* Moderator, I humbly suggest that you may want to close the two relevant threads and move on. Thank you.
Arsony
arsony post quite long sieow... i try to digest and summarise it k?
marxist:
1) your family may be rich but so? the money is not yours coz u have no earning power, so do not spend so much.
2) can't you get the guitar on your own?
3) get to the root of the problem fast and quickly settle it.
leecs:
1) you r most prolly a great guy, but a bit gullible.
2) we shouldnt ridicule the boy
i agree with arsony. but i do feel that your opinions r a little too harsh on leecs. after all, he is the victim.
marxist:
1) your family may be rich but so? the money is not yours coz u have no earning power, so do not spend so much.
2) can't you get the guitar on your own?
3) get to the root of the problem fast and quickly settle it.
leecs:
1) you r most prolly a great guy, but a bit gullible.
2) we shouldnt ridicule the boy
i agree with arsony. but i do feel that your opinions r a little too harsh on leecs. after all, he is the victim.
celahircelebrindal
New member
I have to agree with Arsony with this....maybe because same age group lah.Well enough of the flame and as a community perhaps we should help leecs get a solution....
And hopefully the topic can be closed too provided leecs and marxist has already settled the matter.
Good luck you two...
And hopefully the topic can be closed too provided leecs and marxist has already settled the matter.
Good luck you two...
Arsony
New member
=kym
I apologise if my post seems to victimise (dang! I hate that word) Leecs , but clearly, there are no victims here la .. come on people. Victims are those who for no reason gets afflicted with suffering that has no relation to their own doing. Victims of natural disaster, victims of crime etc etc
We Singaporeans generally are somewhat constantly discontented people ; whole life think that we are victim because of what OTHERS (noticed that we never looked at ourselves and what we do) do to us. We are victims of the government la.... victims of poor healthcare system la.... victims of society's expectation la.. victims of the ratrace la... everyday nothing better to do but complain how we are victims. We dont realise how fortunate we are cos as humans, we look at the world as we are and not as they are. We also don't realise that we do have options but failed to exercise tat right properly.
There are no victims here my friend. If there is, there's only victims of circumstance. A circumstance that we had an option not to be in, but failed to realise until it's a wee bit too late. So Leecs and Marxist, no worries mateys! No need to squabble cos nothing gets solved tat way. Get out of your victim mode and be positively pro-active. Take matters into your own hands and sort something out ok!? Cheers and keep on rocking!
Arsony
I apologise if my post seems to victimise (dang! I hate that word) Leecs , but clearly, there are no victims here la .. come on people. Victims are those who for no reason gets afflicted with suffering that has no relation to their own doing. Victims of natural disaster, victims of crime etc etc
We Singaporeans generally are somewhat constantly discontented people ; whole life think that we are victim because of what OTHERS (noticed that we never looked at ourselves and what we do) do to us. We are victims of the government la.... victims of poor healthcare system la.... victims of society's expectation la.. victims of the ratrace la... everyday nothing better to do but complain how we are victims. We dont realise how fortunate we are cos as humans, we look at the world as we are and not as they are. We also don't realise that we do have options but failed to exercise tat right properly.
There are no victims here my friend. If there is, there's only victims of circumstance. A circumstance that we had an option not to be in, but failed to realise until it's a wee bit too late. So Leecs and Marxist, no worries mateys! No need to squabble cos nothing gets solved tat way. Get out of your victim mode and be positively pro-active. Take matters into your own hands and sort something out ok!? Cheers and keep on rocking!
Arsony
Ken
New member
oh and btw, VJ pwns SA
Another old boy I see. nice touch though its harder for me to say that these days cos my current gf was from SA....
Sorry random spam.
Back to the issue.
Arsony you made valid points but i guess it doesn't help that everyone is prob up in arms.
If you ask me;
a 17 yr old kid who doesn't make his own money and own all that gear and still wanna play punk with a softie whose integrity it seems has been vouched for by most of this thread:
Well dude, its time for you to get hard knock like this. I met your kind in school (yes in VJ) who treated all these lightly while honest chaps like myself starved ourselves (and our girlfriends) to buy a $400 bass.
Now I am not yet thirty and I have a beautiful collection of guitars and basses bought on my own hard earned money and that makes me VERY happy. Maybe if you learn the value of money and owning gear, you won't get yourself in this kind of mess again.
Anyways, just out of concern for all the negativity,
Leecs, maybe you could be a gentleman once more and come forth to close this thread amicably?
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Whitestrat
New member
=Arsony
I think this isn't a very fair observation. To say that Leecs had a choice of not to offer his help is downright cold, and unfeeling. Nevermind that Marxist didn't uphold his end of the bargain, and nevermind that Leecs got the shorter end of the stick even though he didn't have to pay for the mistake.
The point here is: Leecs offered to HELP someone out of GOODWILL and TRUST. Nevermind how misdirected that trust is. It's still a simple gesture we would ALL like to be able to count on if we needed it. This encounter DISCOURAGES someone like Leecs and the rest of us who would have been willing to help in the first place, someone who needed this sort of help. It also casts a bad light on those who would have been willing to fulfill their end of the bargain.
Ignoring the simple fact that Marxist might or might not have had a credit card available, parents or not, it was a clear case of head bigger than brains, and having the maturity to accept the consequences of one's actions. Now Marxist has apologised, which is a good thing. But in the first place, he should have known that he would be called upon to fulfill his end of the bargain.
To say that Leecs isn't a victim is not correct. He IS a victim. Not of malice, nor of intent, but a victim of the lack of values. He is a victim of a young boy who took his trust foregranted, and did not have the decency to realise the kind of spot he would put someone in. He's 18. If he's old enough for the nation to trust to put a rifle in his hand, giving him the power over life and death, then he's old enough to be hammered by everyone here for this mistake.
There's an old english saying: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it. It's an old axiom that holds true to this very day, especially in this case. This is obviously something that Marxist didn't learn in his past 18 years of his life.
We're supposed to be a community here. And I'd love this community to be able to share resources and strengths of each and every person taking part in this daily discussion. But a case like this is discouraging such interaction. Waiving off leecs' initial honorable generosity and kindness by saying "he was stupid to trust this guy" is not a fair statement. We all have 20/20 vision in retrospect.
You're in your mid 30s, and so am I. I don't know if you have children, but I have a son. I for one hope he grows up to be as generous and as willing to help as someone like Leecs. I hope to God he doesn't pull stunts off like Marxist. I worry everyday about the environment and society that he has to grow up in, and cases like this are both discouraging, and encouraging. I tend to see the goodness in someone like Leecs, and I see the negativity in the values of someone like Marxist.
I think this isn't a very fair observation. To say that Leecs had a choice of not to offer his help is downright cold, and unfeeling. Nevermind that Marxist didn't uphold his end of the bargain, and nevermind that Leecs got the shorter end of the stick even though he didn't have to pay for the mistake.
The point here is: Leecs offered to HELP someone out of GOODWILL and TRUST. Nevermind how misdirected that trust is. It's still a simple gesture we would ALL like to be able to count on if we needed it. This encounter DISCOURAGES someone like Leecs and the rest of us who would have been willing to help in the first place, someone who needed this sort of help. It also casts a bad light on those who would have been willing to fulfill their end of the bargain.
Ignoring the simple fact that Marxist might or might not have had a credit card available, parents or not, it was a clear case of head bigger than brains, and having the maturity to accept the consequences of one's actions. Now Marxist has apologised, which is a good thing. But in the first place, he should have known that he would be called upon to fulfill his end of the bargain.
To say that Leecs isn't a victim is not correct. He IS a victim. Not of malice, nor of intent, but a victim of the lack of values. He is a victim of a young boy who took his trust foregranted, and did not have the decency to realise the kind of spot he would put someone in. He's 18. If he's old enough for the nation to trust to put a rifle in his hand, giving him the power over life and death, then he's old enough to be hammered by everyone here for this mistake.
There's an old english saying: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it. It's an old axiom that holds true to this very day, especially in this case. This is obviously something that Marxist didn't learn in his past 18 years of his life.
We're supposed to be a community here. And I'd love this community to be able to share resources and strengths of each and every person taking part in this daily discussion. But a case like this is discouraging such interaction. Waiving off leecs' initial honorable generosity and kindness by saying "he was stupid to trust this guy" is not a fair statement. We all have 20/20 vision in retrospect.
You're in your mid 30s, and so am I. I don't know if you have children, but I have a son. I for one hope he grows up to be as generous and as willing to help as someone like Leecs. I hope to God he doesn't pull stunts off like Marxist. I worry everyday about the environment and society that he has to grow up in, and cases like this are both discouraging, and encouraging. I tend to see the goodness in someone like Leecs, and I see the negativity in the values of someone like Marxist.
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Arsony
New member
=Whitestrat
Well yeah... I agree with most of the things you said. And yes especially in my line of work, we have a saying that goes like "the retrospectoscope is the most powerful scope of all!" .
What I meant in a nutshell really is not to say that anybody is stupid. I certainly did not imply that Leecs is stupid. I never mentioned anything close to that word. I used words like "prudent" and "careful" for good reasons. Simply because if you look at people around you, you will realise that being clever has nothing to do with being careful. I have seen mature drivers who are professionals/graduates driving good cars who lost control and killed themselves simply because they were not careful. I have seen some of my good employees who I know are not clever but they knew that they were not clever and hence take extra measures to be more careful in their work. And these fellas usually make much less mistake then their clever counterparts.
Like I mentioned in my first post. I'm sure Leecs is a helluva nice guy and I'm sure he's clever too. But mistakes all us made most of the time is not because we do not know but more because we were not careful enough to make due considerations before making a decision.
The intention of my post really is to help people see the bigger picture and instead of continuing to slime one party and pour sympathies to the other, help with suggestions on how to remedy the situation and if all of us cannot offer any solution, then maybe we should not add salt to the wound. I was looking at things from the practical and objective point of view. That's all. And again, if I had offended anybody, I sincerely apologise. (Or do we have to start a separate thread again to have me publicly apologise? Goodness.....)
Arsony
Well yeah... I agree with most of the things you said. And yes especially in my line of work, we have a saying that goes like "the retrospectoscope is the most powerful scope of all!" .
What I meant in a nutshell really is not to say that anybody is stupid. I certainly did not imply that Leecs is stupid. I never mentioned anything close to that word. I used words like "prudent" and "careful" for good reasons. Simply because if you look at people around you, you will realise that being clever has nothing to do with being careful. I have seen mature drivers who are professionals/graduates driving good cars who lost control and killed themselves simply because they were not careful. I have seen some of my good employees who I know are not clever but they knew that they were not clever and hence take extra measures to be more careful in their work. And these fellas usually make much less mistake then their clever counterparts.
Like I mentioned in my first post. I'm sure Leecs is a helluva nice guy and I'm sure he's clever too. But mistakes all us made most of the time is not because we do not know but more because we were not careful enough to make due considerations before making a decision.
The intention of my post really is to help people see the bigger picture and instead of continuing to slime one party and pour sympathies to the other, help with suggestions on how to remedy the situation and if all of us cannot offer any solution, then maybe we should not add salt to the wound. I was looking at things from the practical and objective point of view. That's all. And again, if I had offended anybody, I sincerely apologise. (Or do we have to start a separate thread again to have me publicly apologise? Goodness.....)
Arsony
