Help with my project studio..

[teraslasch]

Hi guys, firstly , what i want to do now is to have a total complete project studio of my own. I am not really into recording, as i use my samples and i do not play guitar or sing etc.
The eqquipments i have now are :
1) Cakewalk Sonar Producer Edition 3
2) Garritan's Personal Orchestra (high-quality orchestra samples)
3) Yamaha Synthesizer S03
4) Creative HQ 1700 Monitoring Headphones
5) Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Pro (With hub)
6) Some lousy Wecan mic -.-...
7)My speakers are surrond dell speakers..O.O(kind crap)..
7) A Com, P4 3.0ghz,1GB ram,Radeon 9800 Pro .. .. ..(soundcard mentioned above)

The problem now is, i am at a place where im super close to a window and having lots of open space, buying good speakers would seem to be quite useless and most of the sound would escape, so i often use my headphones. Right now, i am unsure of what's lacking in my project studio to make CD quality music. Or im i fully eqquiped with everything?

need some help here, you can listen to some of my music here for any reference you would need lol, http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/tingsihao_music.htm

thx ^^..

 

[Cheez]

You are almost set. All you need is a better soundcard. Echo or M-audio should be good enough. Even though you are not going to do much recording, you'll probably record the sounds from your S03 since GPO doesn't give you all the sounds you'll probably need. Also a good soundcard gives you lower latency esp when you are using GPO. You don't need one with many audio ins/outs but must have midi. Echo Mia is a good choice.

If tight for budget, don't need monitor speakers. Headphones are OK. That's what I use (after I sold my monitors). Since you are not going to record with mics, you don't have to worry about background noises except that which is generated by lousy soundcards.

And as I said before elsewhere, one of the most important thing is to get your PC configured and optimised properly. Repeating myself again... make sure your PC is dedicated to music. If not, make sure you dual boot and have one boot partition dedicated to music - no internet explorer, no microsoft office, no other programs except your Sonar and GPO. Look into getting XPlite. A second fast hard-drive for recording is recommended if you are going to record multiple tracks. Then you're set.

Share with you my setup - P4 2.8GHz Aspire deskstop replacement, 1.25GB RAM, dual boot, internal HD 7200rpm (Seagate), 2 external harddrives (firewire for streaming samples, USB2.0 for recording - both 7200rpm Seagate), DAW partition running Logic Audio Platinum 5.5, Gigastudio 160 - nothing else. Optimised with XPlite Professional. Echo Indigo io as soundcard, M-audio 1x1 midisport as midi interface. That's all. Low cost, minimal hassle. Gives me full 160 polyphony in Gigastudio and many tracks in recording (have not tried to max out the tracks yet before getting clicks).

 

[teraslasch]

Woah, my soundcard already costed me a bomb, and it comes with aa HUB which audio in out midi in out ports, so no probs, i already started recording with my s03 liao through line in, so i don need anymore interface, so what i need now is another HDD and a better soundcard?.. hmm.. that time i bought a soundcard so ex, my dad almost killed me lol..

and can u explain why i need another partition/HDD soly for GPO and Sonar?.. i don't understand why.?

*edit*
and to add on, i think my soundcard is giving me problems , if i use too many tracks in GPO, clicks start appearing. how do i fix that?or if theres too many notes on one track itself, clicks and noises start appearing..

 

[Cheez]

Echo MiaMidi is relatively cheap - I think about $200+. And it is a pro soundcard. Creative is for gaming and never recommended for pro audio purposes. Keep it for your games etc. Don't have to get rid of it. Pro soundcards doesn't come with sounds - so it won't work with your programs that plays midi.

The clicks you are getting are probably from a number of sources. Creative is the the most probable culprit. Then your DAW is the other problem.

The reason to have music programs in a new boot partition is because too many other programs messes up with the system registries, and because they run in the background, it slows down your PC and uses up additional resources. In a DAW, you want all possible resources (RAM and CPU) to be dedicated to music alone. That's why in audio recording/programming, we always recommend a dedicated PC because music applications takes up a lot of horsepower. With the RAM and CPU you have, you should not be experiencing any pops and clicks at all.

This means you need 2 Windows XPs - one Home and one Professional, to be able to dual boot. Otherwise you can use Partition Magic which I don't recommend since it also takes up additional esources. Your music boot partition will have absolutely nothing in it except your music programs. Your machine will therefore be totally dedicated to music production. Internet Explorer should also be removed. Unchecking it in the Control Panel does not remove it totally - using XPlite totally strips Windows of the internet explorer, which is why I recommend it.

A separate HD is basically for recording. When you record, the HD spins constantly. If the HD is shared by other programs, it slows it down. So you want a HD dedicated to just recording, esp if you are recording many tracks. If just one or two tracks, you may be able to get away with one HD.

Do a search in the forum for optimisation of DAW. There are many discussions in the past re: this issue.

If after optimisation and getting a good soundcard and you still get clicks with GPO, you may want to turn on DFD (direct from disk streaming). To benefit the most from this, you will need a separate HD just to host the GPO samples. But GPO is made in such a way to use RAM instead of HD streaming. Increasing your RAM to more than 1GB may also help.

I've got lots of ideas on optimising a PC for DAW. But too much info here already. My suggestion - get a pro soundcard and dual boot your machine. Don't get another HD yet unless you are getting clicks with recording or intend to go DFD. Then we'll discuss further if you still have problems. My old machine (P3 933MHz with 512MB RAM running Windows ME) did not give me any clicks and gave me 120-140 notes polyphony with a min of 4 tracks simultaneous recording with Gigastudio running in the background. The reason it is able to run with such efficiency is because it is optimised and dedicated to music. Your machine is much faster - so should be no problems.

 

[teraslasch]

hmm, im intending to get a new HDD anyway as im running out of space, then i'll use the new HDD for solely my music. For the pro soundcard, can i have both in my PC?.. example audigy 2 zs + pro soundcard in my com at the same time and both running??..

btw, where do i get that echo miamidi u mentioned? is it sold in SG? if it is, which shop?..

btw, my soundcard is Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro , are u sure its not a pro soundcard?.. it costed more than 200 -.-...

 

[audio]

dude..im using zs platinum pro..its good enuf for a home studio..
furthermore u dont play instruments..better soundcard?!?

i dont tink u need a better soundcard than zs platinum pro..

but i do..for my second pc

 

[audio]

and my recordings are crystal clear with zs platinum pro..i recorded many many many tracks in ONE session and there's no clicks or watsoever..

i dont agree creative soundcards never recommended for pro audio..he used the word 'never' some more..thats ridiculous. wana hear a pro recorded tracks from me?

there are clicks coz i strongly believe ur pc not optimise for recording or your sonar settings something wrong..

 

[fibredrive]

hiya audio, would love to hear a pro recorded track with creative zs platinum. kindly post up real soon. thanks! always wanted to hear what a creative card can handle especially for their supposedly higher end models.
as for the echo mia midi, i bought mine locally for almost $400 from the local distributor. doubt its only 200 bucks...

 

[Cheez]

Audio, what softsynths and softsamplers are you using? Please share with us your specs - that will be helpful. Great to know that you are getting no clicks.

I believe Creative can be used for recording - no problems. With 24/96 input, it should be clear when recording. But when using softsamplers, VSTis etc, things can get a little taxing since Creative tends to be quite bloated. In GPO and similar softsamplers, the amount of RAM determines mainly the number of instruments that can be loaded into the system. The clicks therefore may be a problem with CPU usage. Something running in the background is sucking your power away from your GPO.

I apologise for using the word "never". I don't intend to take it out on Creative users. Yes, can use for recording, but for people using lots of softsynths and softsamplers (particularly softsamplers), I still don't recommend Creative.

If getting a better soundcard is a problem, try this. Dual boot your PC; don't install all the software that comes with Creative but let Windows detect the card and install the basic drivers. That at least will make it less bloated; ensure that ASIO 2.0 is selected and not the standard directsound from Windows. See if there is still clicks.

Fibredrive, oops. Looks like my info is wrong. Perhaps you're right about the cost of MiaMidi. It is about 199USD - not SGD!

 

[Cheez]

OK, I did a search in other forums for people using GPO and Audigy 2. Something wierd about Audigy 2 and GPO when used together but not impossible. Try this: set the latency in your Audigy to 50ms when running within Sonar. If you're playing live, you can set it to as low as possible. If it doesn't work...... we'll see.

 

[teraslasch]

The truth is , i don't get clicks when recording, i only get clicks when using too many wet samples from GPO, so i guess everything's fine? i can use more dry samples than wet samples before getting clicks..

 

[audio]

here's a short one recorded using zs platinum pro..
played by someone else..

http://www.savefile.com/files/1667308

 

[iansoh]

teraslasch, are you experiencing no clicks during recording but clicks during playback of too many wet samples? or are you talking about recording in both instances?

 

[veganbleu]

If you're getting clicks from using too much wet samples, you're going to get dropouts in recording when you're recording and playing back at the same time. If you get random hissing noises, that means the samples read from the disk have been corrupted because the data cannot be read in time, due either to lack of cpu, memory or drive read speed. Clicks generally are associated with the lack of cpu. And they do mount up if you use the garritan ambience reverbs. Also some of the samples themselves have clicks themselves. They're not too obvious until you try to master the track.

Your setup is perfectly fine. What's lacking will be some tools for mastering the audio. Sonar 3 already comes with everything you need for that, except an exciter.

 

[Cheez]

If all the clicks are during applying too many GPO wet samples, then record dry and process with Sonar. How many instances of GPO can you load?

 

[teraslasch]

I can load up to..im not very sure also, but its quite a bit, i don't normally load too many wet samples..

yea, i just remmbered that im both recording while playing back at the same time lol, if thats considered as "recording" in my computer itself. I think i'm getting a new HDD soon .. a 80gb sata .. ..

 

[Cheez]

You may not need another HD ... yet. Try out first. The bottleneck in recording is the HD, not CPU unless you use plug-ins. GPO recording is processed entirely within the PC - so you basically are recording only 1 stereo track (all the tracks are merged when you record) which should not be too much of a problem using one HD (provided your PC is optimised).

 

[teraslasch]

ok noted, but i will get myself another HDD to upgrade my space and my pc ^^.. Looks like what i need now is more GPO skills..
Btw, how would u reccomend i do my MIX? im not sure how i can do it..

 

[seekz]

SATA would be great, i think should be fast enuf.

Cheez, pardon my ignorance. What is XPlite? I never heard of it.
Or is it a mode i can activate when installing with my XPhome?

 

[Cheez]

You don't need SATA - 7200rpm IDE should suffice. Unless you are doing many tracks recording and/or serious HD sample streaming (then you'll want the 10000rpm SATA drives).

With your mix, it will be great to experiment around. With orchestral sounds, the most often used effect is the reverb. Your Sonar should have good ones. EQ little as little as possible. Nowadays, most orchestral samples are recorded in a hall - so all instruments are in their actual positions in a hall. So there is no need to apply reverb or panning. In dry samples, the challenge is to make the back row (percussion, trumpets and trombones) to sound further back than the front row (strings). I usually record my dry samples into 3 tracks - front, middle and back rows. I apply different reverb settings for each (wetter for the back row) and then a overall reverb to the whole mix to make it sound as one. The trick is not to apply to much reverb otherwise it just sound like one big mess and you lose clarity. Make sure your panning is correct for the positions of the instruments.

Seekz, XPlite is a neat utility that let you configure your windows by removing a lot of unecessary things that is unremovable by windows. My Windows XP takes less than 1GB of space after removing lots of stuff. Even Internet Explorer can be totally removed.

The link: http://www.litepc.com/

There's a free version but I recommend the paid version which lets you remove more things. XP is never faster and more stable after using it!